If Obama's a rabid liberal extremist...

[Woodruff]

Oh, okay. That makes more sense now. I would say it depends on a lot of factors, the biggest of which is who the candidate is and what his or her particular views are. I would say President Clinton and Hillary Clinton are more conservative than President Obama, as examples. Another factor would include whether the term liberal is applied on a general basis or on a more directed basis (i.e. liberal socially or liberal fiscally).

Presumably you're looking to get an answer from some semi-whacko Republican here, so maybe I should just stop posting. Additionally, note that I'm operating under your assumption that Obama is a rabid liberal extremist.

Obama is so far left he makes hillary look like a republican.

Hillary (and Bill, for that matter) always HAVE looked more like Republicans than Democrats to me.

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

You Americans are cute. You think the Dem's on the far left?! You should look at Canada. On average, we're quite a centrist population, but even our Prime Minister (the right-end of our political spectrum), is further to the left than most democrats.

I seriously doubt that. Stephen Harper is considerably more right socially, and even fiscally, in my opinion, than most of the Democrats (I'm Canadian too).

Nah. Centre-right socially, but I think that throughout his time as PM he's been more centre-left fiscally. And if you look at recent events, then I think he is actually in line with American Democrats.

Say, where has our surplus gone to in the last 8 years?

[joecoolfrog]

What some of you dont seem to realise is that the policies being implemented by Obama are in accord with the general thinking of the G20 group ( basicly the whole world ), these are not a bunch of pinko liberal socialist loonies. Certainly the measures being taken in the USA are larger and more far reaching but this is understandable given that A) Your economy is just about the biggest basket case and B) The average US citizen has next to zero patience and wants results quickly. I can quite understand those who doubt the wisdom of the strategy ,but to suggest that Obama is pursuing a far left agenda displays astounding ignorance of the state of the global economy and the general concensus on how best to put things right.

[snufkin]

yes obama is right wing from a global or even just "western world" perspective.

[Nobunaga]

What some of you dont seem to realise is that the policies being implemented by Obama are in accord with the general thinking of the G20 group ( basicly the whole world ), these are not a bunch of pinko liberal socialist loonies. Certainly the measures being taken in the USA are larger and more far reaching but this is understandable given that A) Your economy is just about the biggest basket case and B) The average US citizen has next to zero patience and wants results quickly. I can quite understand those who doubt the wisdom of the strategy ,but to suggest that Obama is pursuing a far left agenda displays astounding ignorance of the state of the global economy and the general concensus on how best to put things right.

... What doesn't work for Europe will work for the US?

... And we have a document here called the Constitution, which specifically spells out and limits the authority of our national government. All these things happening are exceeding that authority by more a little.

...

[thegreekdog]

I can quite understand those who doubt the wisdom of the strategy ,but to suggest that Obama is pursuing a far left agenda displays astounding ignorance of the state of the global economy and the general concensus on how best to put things right.

Frankly, the people who do the former (doubt the wisdom of the strategy) are lumped together with the latter. The president, ever since he was running in the primary, has done an excellent job of ensuring that the people in opposition to his ideas are deemed whackos. He's as politically savvy as they come. Therefore, when someone tries to reasonably argue against the president's strategies, he can usually get the word out and lump that person in with the "whackos." Do you remember the Santerelli guy from Chicago? Yeah, he got pushed to the backburner real fast.

[Dancing Mustard]

The president, ever since he was running in the primary, has done an excellent job of ensuring that the people in opposition to his ideas are deemed whackos.

Dude, you're a total whacko. Nobody is taking you seriously.

[thegreekdog]

The president, ever since he was running in the primary, has done an excellent job of ensuring that the people in opposition to his ideas are deemed whackos.

Dude, you're a total whacko. Nobody is taking you seriously.

Dammit! See? SEE? I bet the president had something to do with this (although I'm surprised at the speed).

[jonesthecurl]

The president, ever since he was running in the primary, has done an excellent job of ensuring that the people in opposition to his ideas are deemed whackos.

Dude, you're a total whacko. Nobody is taking you seriously.

Dammit! See? SEE? I bet the president had something to do with this (although I'm surprised at the speed).

Who do you think is on the other end of that phone?

[joecoolfrog]

What some of you dont seem to realise is that the policies being implemented by Obama are in accord with the general thinking of the G20 group ( basicly the whole world ), these are not a bunch of pinko liberal socialist loonies. Certainly the measures being taken in the USA are larger and more far reaching but this is understandable given that A) Your economy is just about the biggest basket case and B) The average US citizen has next to zero patience and wants results quickly. I can quite understand those who doubt the wisdom of the strategy ,but to suggest that Obama is pursuing a far left agenda displays astounding ignorance of the state of the global economy and the general concensus on how best to put things right.

... What doesn't work for Europe will work for the US?

... And we have a document here called the Constitution, which specifically spells out and limits the authority of our national government. All these things happening are exceeding that authority by more a little.

...

The G20 group is not just European, its worldwide, much as it might upset you the USA is not special in regard to this crisis. As for the Constitution do you think it was designed as to be utterly inflexible, do you think those who drafted it thought that it should be set in stone ?

[Dancing Mustard]

As for the Constitution do you think it was designed as to be utterly inflexible, do you think those who drafted it thought that it should be set in stone ?

Oh no! Don't open that can of worms...

*Piles up some sandbags and prepares for the inevitable onslaught of "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE MAGICAL AND MIRACULOUS CONSTIUTION!!! IT IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY AND ANY AMMENDMENT WOULD BE HERESY!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT USED TO EXPLICITLY PERMIT SLAVERY??? WELL SCREW YOU AMERICA RULES AND THE CONSTITUTION IS SACRED AND ABOVE ANY DEBATE BECAUSE IT IS PERFECT AND MAGICAL AND COULD NEVER BE MADE BETTER EVER IN ANY WAY!!!!ONE" posts from the 'hardcore patriot (act)' crowd*

[Nobunaga]

What some of you dont seem to realise is that the policies being implemented by Obama are in accord with the general thinking of the G20 group ( basicly the whole world ), these are not a bunch of pinko liberal socialist loonies. Certainly the measures being taken in the USA are larger and more far reaching but this is understandable given that A) Your economy is just about the biggest basket case and B) The average US citizen has next to zero patience and wants results quickly. I can quite understand those who doubt the wisdom of the strategy ,but to suggest that Obama is pursuing a far left agenda displays astounding ignorance of the state of the global economy and the general concensus on how best to put things right.

... What doesn't work for Europe will work for the US?

... And we have a document here called the Constitution, which specifically spells out and limits the authority of our national government. All these things happening are exceeding that authority by more a little.

...

The G20 group is not just European, its worldwide, much as it might upset you the USA is not special in regard to this crisis. As for the Constitution do you think it was designed as to be utterly inflexible, do you think those who drafted it thought that it should be set in stone ?

"HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE MAGICAL AND MIRACULOUS CONSTIUTION!!! IT IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY AND ANY AMMENDMENT WOULD BE HERESY!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT USED TO EXPLICITLY PERMIT SLAVERY??? WELL SCREW YOU AMERICA RULES AND THE CONSTITUTION IS SACRED AND ABOVE ANY DEBATE BECAUSE IT IS PERFECT AND MAGICAL AND COULD NEVER BE MADE BETTER EVER IN ANY WAY!!!!ONE"

(thanks, Mustard, saved me some typing)

... It is indeed set in stone, until amended. No amendment has yet been made to provide this manner of authority to our government.

... Yours is written in water (defacto constitution), so I don't expect much understanding.

...

[Dancing Mustard]

... It is indeed set in stone, until amended. No amendment has yet been made to provide this manner of authority to our government.

...and there it is. It's all just too magical and perfect to ever be changed y'see.

... Just like that T-Model Ford your Grandpappy bought and handed down to you; it was the first car he ever had, so it must therefore be the best possible car on Earth. Don't you go using a new one now, that'd be sacrilege.

... Yours is written in water (defacto constitution), so I don't expect much understanding.

... were you trying to come across as a pompous twat there, or was it just accidental?

Anyway, textbook use of the "you believe in something different to me, so you could never ever begin to comprehend or understand my beliefs" fallacy (mixed with a healthy does of 'superiority complex'). Good work, for a moment it looked like you might be about to actually make a tenable argument.

[thegreekdog]

...and there it is. It's all just too magical and perfect to ever be changed y'see.

No, it can be changed... in theory by amendment; in practice, by determining that the words used in the document mean something other than what they say. The first (amendment) worked up until the early 20th century, when enterprising legal scholars figured that the Constitution was a "living" document (meaning it could be changed, not meaning it could grow to gargantuan size and attack Tokyo). The second practice is alive and well today, and we're never going back so we should all just deal with it (at least that's what I've been told).

[Nobunaga]

... It is indeed set in stone, until amended. No amendment has yet been made to provide this manner of authority to our government.

...and there it is. It's all just too magical and perfect to ever be changed y'see.

... Just like that T-Model Ford your Grandpappy bought and handed down to you; it was the first car he ever had, so it must therefore be the best possible car on Earth. Don't you go using a new one now, that'd be sacrilege.

... Yours is written in water (defacto constitution), so I don't expect much understanding.

... were you trying to come across as a pompous twat there, or was it just accidental?

Anyway, textbook use of the "you believe in something different to me, so you could never ever begin to comprehend or understand my beliefs" fallacy (mixed with a healthy does of 'superiority complex'). Good work, for a moment it looked like you might be about to actually make a tenable argument.

... And thank you again, Mustard, for demonstrating yet again what I've been saying for years.

... When reasonable argument is unavailable, go hostile.

... Our Constitution clearly defines the role of our government and the limits of its power. Does yours do this? Oh, that's right, you don't have a constitution. Silly me.

... Should I be surprised you don't get it?

... You’re a subject. I’m a citizen.

… <edit> Perhaps I am just a bit pompous... just a bit.

...

[spurgistan]

What some of you dont seem to realise is that the policies being implemented by Obama are in accord with the general thinking of the G20 group ( basicly the whole world ), these are not a bunch of pinko liberal socialist loonies. Certainly the measures being taken in the USA are larger and more far reaching but this is understandable given that A) Your economy is just about the biggest basket case and B) The average US citizen has next to zero patience and wants results quickly. I can quite understand those who doubt the wisdom of the strategy ,but to suggest that Obama is pursuing a far left agenda displays astounding ignorance of the state of the global economy and the general concensus on how best to put things right.

... What doesn't work for Europe will work for the US?

...

The top 100 most livable cities (as determined by that Commie rag BusinessWeek. What, was the Daily Worker not enough for you people?) includes absolutely zero European cities. Market Socialism has failed. Somebody get Milton Friedman's ghost on the line.

[jonesthecurl]

That's a silly list.

London and Glasgow are not the two most "liveable" (not to mention the only) cities in the UK, to speak only of what I know best.

[Dancing Mustard]

... And thank you again, Mustard, for demonstrating yet again what I've been saying for years.

... When reasonable argument is unavailable, go hostile.

Ahh, here we go. Nobunagger doesn't like the fact that his sacred constitution is being attacked, so he tries to switch the subject into a 'bleat about how other people are posting' melee.

Nice try, but you'll have to deflect a little more subtly if you're going to catch me out.

... Our Constitution clearly defines the role of our government and the limits of its power.

Good for you.

Unfortunately you seem to have missed the point of what I'm saying and have failed to grasp the fact that I'm not arguing that those limits are a bad thing.

But hey, why engage with the real issues when you can just resort to trite knee-jerk responses eh?

Does yours do this? Oh, that's right, you don't have a constitution. Silly me.

Irrelevance, Nobunagger. Nobunagger, Irrelevance.

... Should I be surprised you don't get it?

Should I be surprised that despite being the man crying loudest about 'hostility', you're the one trying to dish out all the condescension?

... You’re a subject. I’m a citizen.

What a complete and utter load of unadulterated bollocks.

Tell me, which shallow-thinking talk-radio show fed you that fallacy? Give me their URL so I can go lolzor at some more of their hilariously inaccurate claims.