TRAFALGAR [12.4.2012] QUENCHED (V65)

[yeti_c]

Now what are you talking about the capital ships legend, which part for you looks like rubbish. Please be explicit.

The names of the capital ships on the map - they look horrid - really jarring to the eyes...

C.

[cairnswk]

Now what are you talking about the capital ships legend, which part for you looks like rubbish. Please be explicit.

The names of the capital ships on the map - they look horrid - really jarring to the eyes...

C.

OK. here is version 44.

This map has been re-worked in Coreldraw.
1. the background was extracted from Fireworks and imported to Coreldraw.
2. All the ships were re-drawn
3. All the names have been re-worked, so they should be more consistent and the colours consistent with the legend
4. All the legend has been re-worked
5. The main title and text flows have been re-worked
6. Some ship positions have had to be moved around
I hope this suffices those who have had issues.



[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/trafalgar/trafalgar_V44L.jpg[/bigimg]

[TaCktiX]

Doncha mean "Indomitable" instead of "Indomptable"?

[cairnswk]

Doncha mean "Indomitable" instead of "Indomptable"?

No.

TABLE F.
LIST OF ALLIED FLEET AT TRAFALGAR.
French Ships. Number Spanish Ships Number
of Guns. of Guns.
Bucentaure 80 Santisima Trinidad 140
Formidable 80 Santa Anna 112
Indomptable 80 Principe de Asturias 112
Neptune 80 Rayo 100
Achille 74 Neptuno 80
Aigle 74 Argonauta 80
Algesiras 74 Bahama 74
Argonaute 74 Monarca 74
Duguay-Trouin 74 Montanez 74
Fougueux 74 San Augustin 74
Heros 74 San Francisco de Asis 74
Intrepid 74 San Ildefonso 74
Mont-Blanc. 74 San Juan Nepomuceno 74
Pluton 74 San Justo 74
Redoutable 74 San Leandro 64
Scipion 74
Berwick 74
Swiftsure 74

[Incandenza]

Two things: the Royal Sovereign appears to have been reoriented from previous maps, and the cannon don't pop out nearly well enough, especially on the Spanish ships. They need to be longer and probably darker.

[cairnswk]

Two things: the Royal Sovereign appears to have been reoriented from previous maps, and the cannon don't pop out nearly well enough, especially on the Spanish ships. They need to be longer and probably darker.

Ah INca, i've fixed those cannons, and yes the RS was re-oriented, it was probably the worng way around in the fi5rst place since it approached battle from the south west and was steering north, such as its position now. Please F5.

[cairnswk]

version 44.


[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/trafalgar/trafalgar_V44L.jpg[/bigimg]

[cairnswk]

I thought i'd thrown this up also to see if the placements were OK for 888.

[captainwalrus]

why did you re-do everything? The top cannon on Royal sovereign, where doe it point?

[cairnswk]

why did you re-do everything? The top cannon on Royal sovereign, where doe it point?

Because the initial work in fireworks can only ever be at 72dpi, and lines can never be less than 1 px width.
Whereas in Coreldraw, i can achieve 300 dpi res with hairline widths for lines and much finer resolutions.
A chance also to re-visist everything after complaints about Mum and the kitchen sink.

[cairnswk]

..The top cannon on Royal sovereign, where doe it point?

Pluton.

[oaktown]

Posting the 888s was a good call... my concern with the three digit counts (or two digit counts with color indicators which I use) is that the cannons become obscured. Thunderer's gun is especially bad since it is also running into Principe de Asturias - with the army count there's little left of it.

On some cannons it woudln't hurt to make them one pixel longer... the guns on Victory for example. Other spots can be improved with some cannon angles, such as the lower right cannon on Royal Sovereign which could be angled up and out of the path of the army count.

Tonnant and Algesiras is a weird spot - it looks like they can board each other, and it looks like Tonnant can bombard Algesiras as well. Wait, unless Tonnant and Monarca can bombard each other through Algesiras.

[cairnswk]

Posting the 888s was a good call... my concern with the three digit counts (or two digit counts with color indicators which I use) is that the cannons become obscured. Thunderer's gun is especially bad since it is also running into Principe de Asturias - with the army count there's little left of it.

On some cannons it woudln't hurt to make them one pixel longer... the guns on Victory for example. Other spots can be improved with some cannon angles, such as the lower right cannon on Royal Sovereign which could be angled up and out of the path of the army count.

Tonnant and Algesiras is a weird spot - it looks like they can board each other, and it looks like Tonnant can bombard Algesiras as well. Wait, unless Tonnant and Monarca can bombard each other through Algesiras.

Version 45.
I've re-worked all the cannon, made them much longer so there is no doubt as to where they are pointing.



[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/trafalgar/trafalgar_V45L.jpg[/bigimg]

[Incandenza]

You're going to punch me, but now the cannon are too long, they're cartoonish and goofy-looking. Call me crazy, but visually I thought the cannon you had before completely reworking the map were just fine.

[the.killing.44]

You're going to punch me, but now the cannon are too long, they're cartoonish and goofy-looking. Call me crazy, but visually I thought the cannon you had before completely reworking the map were just fine.

Agreed — they don't seem as cannon-ish now, but rather more like indicators, or pointers? EDIT: …rather than being both.

.44

[cairnswk]

You're going to punch me, but now the cannon are too long, they're cartoonish and goofy-looking. Call me crazy, but visually I thought the cannon you had before completely reworking the map were just fine.

You're going to punch me, but now the cannon are too long, they're cartoonish and goofy-looking. Call me crazy, but visually I thought the cannon you had before completely reworking the map were just fine.

Agreed — they don't seem as cannon-ish now, but rather more like indicators, or pointers? EDIT: …rather than being both.

.44

OK. i'll pull them back a fraction, and then that's it.

Cannon re-worked. If they look dorky now that they've been pulled back by 3 three pixels, too bad.
They were made that long and re-worked to get past the 888s.
At least people will be able to see where they can bombard, as pointed out by someone else.

[yeti_c]

I like the new look - things look a lot fresher...

I wonder - would you be able to show us a version with Gun Metal Cannons now to see if they look better or not?

C.

[cairnswk]

I like the new look - things look a lot fresher...

I wonder - would you be able to show us a version with Gun Metal Cannons now to see if they look better or not?

C.

I know you're only stirring....C, i'd like to keep those canons the way they are.
EDIT: I had thought about your request to change the canon to gun-metal, and i have to offer you this....you logic about who ever heard of pink canons was way off the mark i'm afraid, I could retaliate with who ever heard of red yellow and blue vessels.
Please....

[yeti_c]

I like the new look - things look a lot fresher...

I wonder - would you be able to show us a version with Gun Metal Cannons now to see if they look better or not?

C.

I know you're only stirring....C, i'd like to keep those canons the way they are.
EDIT: I had thought about your request to change the canon to gun-metal, and i have to offer you this....you logic about who ever heard of pink canons was way off the mark i'm afraid, I could retaliate with who ever heard of red yellow and blue vessels.
Please....

No I wasn't stirring - I'm providing useful criticism (or attempting to) on your potential map.

Fair enough - I just think it would look better - especially now that they're bigger - and you could at least show a couple to see if you prefered it?

C.

[yeti_c]

And so - I thought I'd have a brief bash for you...

Not sure the colour is right 646464 (Hex)

[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/trafalgar/trafalgar_V45L.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/1/19/1707364/trafalgar_V45aL.jpg[/bigimg]

C.

PS - also just to point out - your "yellow" cannons are not consistent now - some are brown some are yellow.

[Echospree]

With the larger cannons, I strongly prefer the "coloured" variants, rather than gun-metal. With the guns being so large, I also prefer the yellow cannons to the brown ones for the Spanish ships.

[cairnswk]

...
No I wasn't stirring - I'm providing useful criticism (or attempting to) on your potential map.
Fair enough - I just think it would look better - especially now that they're bigger - and you could at least show a couple to see if you prefered it?...

PS - also just to point out - your "yellow" cannons are not consistent now - some are brown some are yellow.
C.

C, i had already gone down that road. Sometimes you should trust my judgement and listen, and note i said sometimes. I'm sorry you wasted your time but being stubborn seems a trait we both have. I appreciate your "useful criticism" but sometimes enough push is enough.
I think the example you tried was admirable, and you have posted it to gain some possible support, but it doesn't change my mind. The canons will remain the colour of the terts they are attached to.
And if you look below, which was posted just before your challenge, you might notice that i have changed the brown canon to yellow, having already realized my error.

....

[yeti_c]

C, i had already gone down that road. Sometimes you should trust my judgement and listen, and note i said sometimes. I'm sorry you wasted your time but being stubborn seems a trait we both have. I appreciate your "useful criticism" but sometimes enough push is enough.
I think the example you tried was admirable, and you have posted it to gain some possible support, but it doesn't change my mind. The canons will remain the colour of the terts they are attached to.

No attempt at support - just trying to see which was better... after making the image - I in fact thought the coloured cannons looked better - although - I suspect given the right skills - the grey cannons could also look good - I merely did a paint bucket job with one colour as a representation as to what I meant...

My main problem was that you decided that arbitrarily without giving anyone input - and when the input was enquired about - it was flatly refused...

And if you look below, which was posted just before your challenge, you might notice that i have changed the brown canon to yellow, having already realized my error.

Cool.

C.

[mibi]

I am not sure what happened here, but it looks like this map has degenerated into a utter mess and a total disaster from a interface, and complexity point of view. There is a different between complex (and interesting) gameplay, and complexity because the map is so befuddled with markers, routes, iconography, rules, colors, text, diagrams, etc that it makes enjoyment only possible to a very small number of people.

I would say that the subject matter was poorly suited to a map to begin with, but what you have currently basically rapes any content left in this historical battle and leaves a convoluted diagram for people to play on. Those aren't boats, cannons, etc, its just lifeless elements on a flowchart that looks like it when through the washing machine in someones pants.

Granted, I would never play this map but I see this as being the next big farming map, as it takes unneeded amounts of time to decode, and the layout of the 'instructions' are so off putting, confusing, and barely legible, that no one would even bother to read them. Good thing too, because the rules themselves are ridiculous and only serve to force what was once an interesting battle through the sieve of conquerclub gameplay.

The saving grace of this map is that it's so inaccessible to any and all players, that noobs (and everyone else) will mostly stay away from it to begin with. It's just a shame the first real naval warfare map is going to be this one, which looks more like a come molecular hydrocarbon than anything requiring a master and commander.

My suggestion is to go back to the drawing board, and rethink how to craft a map around this battle without turning it into a science experiment. Otherwise, I would hit the jiggly handle on this one and flush what looks like a cross between a sugary breakfast serial and colony of bacteria down the foundry toilet.

Either way, your talent is entirely wasted here.

[cairnswk]

....
Either way, your talent is entirely wasted here.

Thanks mibi, you're back to your usual sarcastic self i see.
Of course you not only offend me, but i would say that you offend most of those who have bothered to post in this map thread and give input. I don't see where your input has been at any stage of this map. So i wouldn't expect you to play it anyway because it would be below your level to degrade yourself.
Instead of being so sarcastic, where is your version of this battle? Nowhere to be found.
Congratulations once again.