SHOWDOWN: TEXAS MAY REJECT NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE...

[GabonX]

I was less facepalming at the "Switzerland is a democracy" bit as at the "ZOMG Obamacare" bit. Universal health care is as anti-democratic as police and fire stations, road construction, and a military. Namely, whether or not you have it has zero to do with you are a democracy or not. Hell, the Swiss have one too.

Besides, the reason Switzerland is capable of remaining a (somewhat) true democracy is only because of it's small population. If the U.S. had remained a confederacy it would have likely devolved into infighting and an eventual separation into several (literal) states. That would have been a bad thing.

Slippery slope there..watch your step

Universal Health Care sounds like a great thing, but to achieve it they can neither take basic liberties or instate exorbitant taxes.

If Universal Health Care cannot be achieved without violating these principles we cannot accept it as a solution.

[GabonX]

A list of concerts which Perry may be reacting to:
*Loss of personal freedoms
*Exorbitant taxes burdening citizens of the state
*The loss of privacy and dangers presented which accompany a national health database
*The encroachment of state's rights by federal authorities
*Uncertainties regarding the length and content of the proposal
*The inefficiency of bureaucracy coupled with the critical nature of health and limitations to potential health options

These concerns are all legitimate and need to be addressed.

[jsholty4690]

A list of concerts which Perry may be reacting to:
*Loss of personal freedoms
*Exorbitant taxes burdening citizens of the state
*The loss of privacy and dangers presented which accompany a national health database
*The encroachment of state's rights by federal authorities
*Uncertainties regarding the length and content of the proposal
*The inefficiency of bureaucracy coupled with the critical nature of health and limitations to potential health options

These concerns are all legitimate and need to be addressed.

I'd love to agree with you on all of those reasons (all of which I think are real concerns), but I think his real motive is a little more transparent and selfish. I think he's looking toward 2012 and be the second Texan governor in the past ten years to win the Republican nomination.

[GabonX]

There may be some posturing going on.

That said, I'm glad that there are people speaking out.

I can't speak for Governor Perry, but I can say that I and a great many others share concerns regarding one or more of those issues.

[HapSmo19]

Is that what I think it is?

I believe I've seen that guy on Faces of Death.

[GabonX]

What are you talking about?

That's just how they facepalm in Texas..

[MeDeFe]

Is that what I think it is?

I believe I've seen that guy on Faces of Death.

The guy looks a bit like former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl.

[bedub1]

Show me in the constitution where is says the federal government has the job of providing national health care. And why call it universal? Are we going to provide health care for the entire universe?

I agree with the 10th amendment. I think California should nut up and help defend the constitution. The next time federal agents come and raid a legal business in California state, the state police etc should go out there and point their guns at the federal guys and tell them they are violation of California law, put their fucking guns down, get on the ground before they are shot, as they are all under arrest.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Show me in the constitution where is says the federal government has the job of providing national health care. And why call it universal? Are we going to provide health care for the entire universe?

I agree with the 10th amendment. I think California should nut up and help defend the constitution. The next time federal agents come and raid a legal business in California state, the state police etc should go out there and point their guns at the federal guys and tell them they are violation of California law, put their fucking guns down, get on the ground before they are shot, as they are all under arrest.

listen, guy.mod edit



i'm truly sorry

[spurgistan]

Is that what I think it is?

I believe I've seen that guy on Faces of Death.

The guy looks a bit like former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl.

I'd say more like a fatter Howard Dean.

[bedub1]

Show me in the constitution where is says the federal government has the job of providing national health care. And why call it universal? Are we going to provide health care for the entire universe?

I agree with the 10th amendment. I think California should nut up and help defend the constitution. The next time federal agents come and raid a legal business in California state, the state police etc should go out there and point their guns at the federal guys and tell them they are violation of California law, put their fucking guns down, get on the ground before they are shot, as they are all under arrest.

listen, guy.mod edit

i'm truly sorry

please don't flame me.

[Frigidus]

Show me in the constitution where is says the federal government has the job of providing national health care. And why call it universal? Are we going to provide health care for the entire universe?

I agree with the 10th amendment. I think California should nut up and help defend the constitution. The next time federal agents come and raid a legal business in California state, the state police etc should go out there and point their guns at the federal guys and tell them they are violation of California law, put their fucking guns down, get on the ground before they are shot, as they are all under arrest.

listen, guy.mod edit

i'm truly sorry

please don't flame me.

To be fair, your post was ridiculous. I mean, there are clearly two sides to this issue, with both of us on opposite sides, but come on. An action can only be taken if specifically mentioned in the Constitution? California police should assault the FBI and CIA? That is some captain crazy type shit. Were you just trolling there?

[bedub1]

Show me in the constitution where is says the federal government has the job of providing national health care. And why call it universal? Are we going to provide health care for the entire universe?

I agree with the 10th amendment. I think California should nut up and help defend the constitution. The next time federal agents come and raid a legal business in California state, the state police etc should go out there and point their guns at the federal guys and tell them they are violation of California law, put their fucking guns down, get on the ground before they are shot, as they are all under arrest.

listen, guy.mod edit

i'm truly sorry

please don't flame me.

To be fair, your post was ridiculous. I mean, there are clearly two sides to this issue, with both of us on opposite sides, but come on. An action can only be taken if specifically mentioned in the Constitution? California police should assault the FBI and CIA? That is some captain crazy type shit. Were you just trolling there?

Have you read the 10th amendment? Do you understand what it means?

[Frigidus]

OK, that bit (deleted post) was me being retarded. I'm in a bit of a rush and will hopefully be able to respond in a manner that isn't moronic later, once I'm back. As a short aside, the 10th amendment doesn't mean that anybody holding a minor office can just say and do whatever they want to the CIA. That's just stupid.

[GabonX]

The Federal Government can take actions which are not assigned to it in the constitution ONLY with the consent of the states.

It's well documented and well established that the 10th Amendment was written to limit the powers of the Federal Government.

Unfortunately, as Woodruff stated, many parts of our Constitution have been disregarded.

OK, that bit (deleted post) was me being retarded. I'm in a bit of a rush and will hopefully be able to respond in a manner that isn't moronic later, once I'm back. As a short aside, the 10th amendment doesn't mean that anybody holding a minor office can just say and do whatever they want to the CIA. That's just stupid.

No, but if push comes to shove, legitimacy lies with the states..not the Federal Government.

A Governor has more authority in his given state than the President. The State Legislature trumps the Federal Legislature as well.

[bedub1]

The Federal Government can take actions which are not assigned to it in the constitution ONLY with the consent of the states.

It's well documented and well established that the 10th Amendment was written to limit the powers of the Federal Government.

Unfortunately, as Woodruff stated, many parts of our Constitution have been disregarded.

OK, that bit (deleted post) was me being retarded. I'm in a bit of a rush and will hopefully be able to respond in a manner that isn't moronic later, once I'm back. As a short aside, the 10th amendment doesn't mean that anybody holding a minor office can just say and do whatever they want to the CIA. That's just stupid.

No, but if push comes to shove, legitimacy lies with the states..not the Federal Government.

A Governor has more authority in his given state than the President. The State Legislature trumps the Federal Legislature as well.

Exactly. The US was designed to limit the federal government and to let the state governments rule their own states. The federal government is overstepping it's authority when it sends "troops" into California, to raid business's which are following California State Law.

The nation was designed like this, so the people of a state can decide their own laws. Thus, if you are unhappy with the laws of your state, you can vote very easily. Pack up your belongings, and MOVE to another state.

If we don't limit the power of the national government, and the feds take over everything, then we won't really need states. We will stop being the "United state of America" and just be "Obamaville" or maybe just "America".

Texas has got the right idea. I fully support them. I might just move there. I'm tired of Washington state and all the idiots up here, California's are ruining this state. They already destroyed California, so they fled to Washington, and are now destroying this state.

[Cypress333]

And you think that they would want,or accept you why ?

Probably because my family makes over $350,000 a year and we are 1/6 Swiss and all educated in universities. (suck on that )

But in all seriousness i don't even think we sould have to move because we would probably secede before anything else.

I have this great e-mail i got from a friend, and you can debate the facts in it all u want but after reading it i got a good laugh.



We Texans love y’all, but we’ll probably have to take action since B. Hussein Obama won the election. We’ll miss you too.

Here is what can happen:

#1: Barack Hussein Obama becomes President of the United States ,
Texas immediately secedes from the Union .

#2: George W. Bush will become the President of the Republic of Texas .

So what does Texas have to do to survive as a Republic?

1. NASA is just south of Houston , Texas . We will control the space industry.

2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .

3. Defense Industry–we have over 65% of it. The term “Don’t mess
with Texas ,” will take on a whole new meaning.

4. Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will
need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.

5. Natural Gas - again we have all we need and it’s too bad about
those Northern States. John Kerry will have to figure out a way to
keep them warm….

6. Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing
computer chips and communications–small companies like Texas
Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
goes on and on.

7. Medical Care - We have the largest research centers for cancer
research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
hospitals in the United States .

8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: University of Texas ,
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
( University of North Texas ), Texas Women’s University, etc. Ivy
grows better in the South anyway.

9. We have a ready supply of workers. We could just open the border
when we need some more.

10. We have essential control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.

11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard
and the Texas Air National Guard. We don’t have an Army, but since
everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can
raise an Army in 24 hours if we need one. If the situation really
gets bad, we can always call the Department of Public Safety and ask
them to send over Chuck Norris and a couple of Texas Rangers.

12. We are totally self-sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs, and several
types of grain, fruit and vegetables, and let’s not forget seafood
from the Gulf. Also, everybody down here knows how to cook them so
that they taste good. Don’t need any food.

This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isn’t a thing out there that we need and
don’t have.

Now to the rest of the United States under President Obama:

Since you won’t have the refineries to get gas for your cars, only
President Obama will be able to drive around in his big 9 mpg SUV.
The rest of the United States will have to walk or ride bikes.

You won’t have any TV as the Space Center in Houston will cut off
satellite communications.

You won’t have any natural gas to heat your homes, but since Mr. Obama
has predicted global warming, you will not need the gas as long as you
survive the 2000 years it will take to get enough heat from Global
Warming.

Signed, The People of Texas

P.S. This is not a threatening letter - just a note to give you
something to think about!

SLEEP WELL TONIGHT THE EYES OF TEXAS ARE UPON YOU!!

One Nation Under God


God i love texas

[got tonkaed]

admittedly i am slightly too young and sadly historically ignorant enough to make this a worthwhile post but anyway...

It would be interesting if such a plan did get passed and it was rejected by a state. I have a hunch it may follow some precedent related to the attempts of some states to keep the drinking age at 18, instead of 21. If i was taught correctly, i believe the response from the federal government was to prepare to cut funding for roads to the states and eventually when push came to shove, the states who wanted to make the change eventually relented.

It is all well and go to assert the constitutional right of any state to do whatever they please. I wont pretend to argue they dont have that authority. But its fair i believe to accept the reality of the fact that the world we live in today, in practice the federal government has a bit more behind it than it did when the constitution was thought of and implemented. Id be prepared to presume if there was ever a real and present divide in regards to nationalized healthcare, the state would likely be the one that was forced to relent.

It may not be what the founders wanted, but its probably the world in which we live at the moment. Anyone who can argue that they have certain rights in the constitution should probably be making the argument that we dont follow it closely enough at the same time. It probably wouldnt matter on either count, but its a point to be made.

[GabonX]

The above is all true.

I should clarify that when I state things like "The Federal Government can take actions which are not assigned to it in the constitution ONLY with the consent of the states." and "A Governor has more authority in his given state than the President. The State Legislature trumps the Federal Legislature as well." I am referring to the way things should be practiced if we are going to abide by Constitution.

In practice this is not always the case but I don't see that as a reason to give up.

[Woodruff]

It would be interesting if such a plan did get passed and it was rejected by a state. I have a hunch it may follow some precedent related to the attempts of some states to keep the drinking age at 18, instead of 21. If i was taught correctly, i believe the response from the federal government was to prepare to cut funding for roads to the states and eventually when push came to shove, the states who wanted to make the change eventually relented.

A perfect example of the tattering of the Tenth Amendment.

[Neoteny]

What are you talking about?

That's just how they facepalm in Texas..

lol a Texas facepalm involves putting a revolver in your mouth and pulling the trigger?

That image should probably be put in KB's "Fun with guns" thread.

Kids these days...

[bedub1]

And you think that they would want,or accept you why ?

Probably because my family makes over $350,000 a year and we are 1/6 Swiss and all educated in universities. (suck on that )

But in all seriousness i don't even think we sould have to move because we would probably secede before anything else.

I have this great e-mail i got from a friend, and you can debate the facts in it all u want but after reading it i got a good laugh.



We Texans love y’all, but we’ll probably have to take action since B. Hussein Obama won the election. We’ll miss you too.

Here is what can happen:

#1: Barack Hussein Obama becomes President of the United States ,
Texas immediately secedes from the Union .

#2: George W. Bush will become the President of the Republic of Texas .

So what does Texas have to do to survive as a Republic?

1. NASA is just south of Houston , Texas . We will control the space industry.

2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .

3. Defense Industry–we have over 65% of it. The term “Don’t mess
with Texas ,” will take on a whole new meaning.

4. Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will
need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.

5. Natural Gas - again we have all we need and it’s too bad about
those Northern States. John Kerry will have to figure out a way to
keep them warm….

6. Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing
computer chips and communications–small companies like Texas
Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
goes on and on.

7. Medical Care - We have the largest research centers for cancer
research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
hospitals in the United States .

8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: University of Texas ,
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
( University of North Texas ), Texas Women’s University, etc. Ivy
grows better in the South anyway.

9. We have a ready supply of workers. We could just open the border
when we need some more.

10. We have essential control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.

11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard
and the Texas Air National Guard. We don’t have an Army, but since
everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can
raise an Army in 24 hours if we need one. If the situation really
gets bad, we can always call the Department of Public Safety and ask
them to send over Chuck Norris and a couple of Texas Rangers.

12. We are totally self-sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs, and several
types of grain, fruit and vegetables, and let’s not forget seafood
from the Gulf. Also, everybody down here knows how to cook them so
that they taste good. Don’t need any food.

This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isn’t a thing out there that we need and
don’t have.

Now to the rest of the United States under President Obama:

Since you won’t have the refineries to get gas for your cars, only
President Obama will be able to drive around in his big 9 mpg SUV.
The rest of the United States will have to walk or ride bikes.

You won’t have any TV as the Space Center in Houston will cut off
satellite communications.

You won’t have any natural gas to heat your homes, but since Mr. Obama
has predicted global warming, you will not need the gas as long as you
survive the 2000 years it will take to get enough heat from Global
Warming.

Signed, The People of Texas

P.S. This is not a threatening letter - just a note to give you
something to think about!

SLEEP WELL TONIGHT THE EYES OF TEXAS ARE UPON YOU!!

One Nation Under God


God i love texas

if you chop alaska in half, texas becomes the 3rd largest state.

[Frigidus]

And you think that they would want,or accept you why ?

Probably because my family makes over $350,000 a year and we are 1/6 Swiss and all educated in universities. (suck on that )

But in all seriousness i don't even think we sould have to move because we would probably secede before anything else.

I have this great e-mail i got from a friend, and you can debate the facts in it all u want but after reading it i got a good laugh.



We Texans love y’all, but we’ll probably have to take action since B. Hussein Obama won the election. We’ll miss you too.

Here is what can happen:

#1: Barack Hussein Obama becomes President of the United States ,
Texas immediately secedes from the Union .

#2: George W. Bush will become the President of the Republic of Texas .

So what does Texas have to do to survive as a Republic?

1. NASA is just south of Houston , Texas . We will control the space industry.

2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .

3. Defense Industry–we have over 65% of it. The term “Don’t mess
with Texas ,” will take on a whole new meaning.

4. Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will
need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.

5. Natural Gas - again we have all we need and it’s too bad about
those Northern States. John Kerry will have to figure out a way to
keep them warm….

6. Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing
computer chips and communications–small companies like Texas
Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
goes on and on.

7. Medical Care - We have the largest research centers for cancer
research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
hospitals in the United States .

8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: University of Texas ,
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
( University of North Texas ), Texas Women’s University, etc. Ivy
grows better in the South anyway.

9. We have a ready supply of workers. We could just open the border
when we need some more.

10. We have essential control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.

11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard
and the Texas Air National Guard. We don’t have an Army, but since
everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can
raise an Army in 24 hours if we need one. If the situation really
gets bad, we can always call the Department of Public Safety and ask
them to send over Chuck Norris and a couple of Texas Rangers.

12. We are totally self-sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs, and several
types of grain, fruit and vegetables, and let’s not forget seafood
from the Gulf. Also, everybody down here knows how to cook them so
that they taste good. Don’t need any food.

This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isn’t a thing out there that we need and
don’t have.

Now to the rest of the United States under President Obama:

Since you won’t have the refineries to get gas for your cars, only
President Obama will be able to drive around in his big 9 mpg SUV.
The rest of the United States will have to walk or ride bikes.

You won’t have any TV as the Space Center in Houston will cut off
satellite communications.

You won’t have any natural gas to heat your homes, but since Mr. Obama
has predicted global warming, you will not need the gas as long as you
survive the 2000 years it will take to get enough heat from Global
Warming.

Signed, The People of Texas

P.S. This is not a threatening letter - just a note to give you
something to think about!

SLEEP WELL TONIGHT THE EYES OF TEXAS ARE UPON YOU!!

One Nation Under God


God i love texas

if you chop alaska in half, texas becomes the 3rd largest state.

Gotta love the deluded Confederates...they still think they could go to toe to toe with the U.S. Army, bless their hearts.

[GabonX]

They already did, and they didn't do so poorly the last time around. Yeah, they lost, but not without one hell of a fight..

Also, I would wager that a disproportionately high percentage of the US Army is made up of "Confederates."

[jsholty4690]

Gotta love the deluded Confederates...they still think they could go to toe to toe with the U.S. Army, bless their hearts.

And they almost won. I recomend you read Harry Turtledove's Timeline 191 series. It showed how close they were to winning the war.