Is Communism actually that bad?

[john9blue]

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=5449165

'Nuff said.

I feel the need to brag because this is the first game I have won in a while.

[MrWainthrope]

Ghandi was essentially an open racist in his early years.

That is such a cheap liberal lie. He was no such thing.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Ghandi was essentially an open racist in his early years.

That is such a cheap liberal lie. He was no such thing.

hahaha

[notyou2]

I agree, it most likely work best in smaller states. So, perhaps the Vatican, its a small state, will try instituting communism on a trial basis and we can all see what happens.

The Vatican does not believe in communism.... just look at their response to "liberation theology", among other issues.

That was meant tongue in cheek

[GabonX]

We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do... We believe also that the white race in South Africa should be the predominating race.

Kaffirs (blacks) are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals

-Ghandi

[muy_thaiguy]

We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do... We believe also that the white race in South Africa should be the predominating race.

Kaffirs (blacks) are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals

-Ghandi

Isn't the social caste in India based off of the color/shade of skin? The darker it is, the lower on the caste system you are?

[GabonX]

Something like that but I'm pretty sure Ghandi was opposed to the caste system

[MrWainthrope]

We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do... We believe also that the white race in South Africa should be the predominating race.

Kaffirs (blacks) are as a rule uncivilized - the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals

-Ghandi

Lies.

Those are clearly Hitler quotes that you have put the word Ghandi underneath. You can tell they are fake because you forgot to write 'Ghandi' inside the quotation text-boxes.

Go back to Obama-HQ and ask them for another fallacy to troll with.

[Falkomagno]

Well, after reading the whole thread, I can recognize a few things.
This is, mostly a very healthy debate.

I think that it’s not about if is “Good” or “bad”. It’s not that simple as to say that 2+3=8 and that’s wrong. It’s about to put the things in perspective, and distinguish what points are desirable or goods and what points are awful, or wrong., but having in mind that such a distinction is because the very own ideal of society, or principles in a society that we care the most.

Economically, and that’s because Communism is a ECONOMIC system, easily confused with a political one. Communism it’s about to produce in community. To share profits and to balance works. I have to say that I ignore how Communism deals with the fact (and this is a common place) that the engineer and the potato counter gain the same, despite the fact that the engineer studied a lot of years, with s much effort, meanwhile the potato counter don´t. I think that is about point of view. In a capitalism way of view, the happiness is to possess. I think that in a Communism way of living the panacea have to be something else. Someone point earlier (Becko the Great, in a Great great post) that the so proud liberty of capitalism is about to choose between pepsi or coke, and that statement have so much of truth, and it’s truly sad. So, the productiveness in a communism country, can works (as in Urss, to let them to pass from a nearly feudalism peasant country to the sputnik in a couple of decades) or not work (if we trust in Mr. Changsta, who said that the economic boom of Chinese economic is despite Mao’s communism, and not due it, as many can think, even myself) but the question is, at which cost?

And that’s my biggest criticism to communism. Communism, as we may know, is based in a strong and big state, which reduces or removes any artistic expression opposition and critical thought. That’s a crime, and it’s truly undesirable in any economic system, according with my point of view.

So, I can try to look the countries as people and economic and politic systems as personalities. So, now I can see China as a big Asiatic man, very work harder, a little shy and illiterate, with great concept of authority. EU is more like a big fat man, with some hobbies but uneducated as well, and very shallow and materialist. England, and France for example can be some kind of old guys, with great culture and so many stories to tell, but greedy, chauvinistic and stubborn.

[AAFitz]

My opinion of communism, is that it is fundamentally, the most humane and reasonable structure for the human race. It is based on all working towards one goal, which is the betterment of the whole of society. In that regard, I can think of no better system, with no better objective.

The only problem is, the system works better with ants and bees, which are programmed genetically to act in the best interest of the hive.

With humans, its a whole other ball game. Its simply not rational, to decide for a person, what his contribution will be to society. The diversity in humans is so great, that any attempt to stunt it, really is criminal. The reason capitalism has worked, and by worked I mean has become the system of choice, is that it is fundamentally based on human instinct, which is essentially to take care of oneself first.

It rewards those who work, or who are creative, or talented, or those who have been born to those people. In the US, our constitution gives us the unalienable right to do what makes us happy, provided we do it within the guidelines of the law.

Now, Ideally, as the human race grows and learns, perhaps we will on our own decide to do whats best for mankind, and do our part to help out, as many do now of course, but the human race, and the world we live in is simply no where near ready for an idea such as communism, which would essentially need the consent of nearly every person on earth. It would also need protections against greed, corruption, and abuse of power, which is just absolutely out of the realm of possibility.

We, are by our very nature, a capitalistic race. We are social creatures, but only to a certain extent. We are genetically inclined to group together, and fight for our territory. Luckilly, as history has unfolded, our compassion and human side has also allowed for helping of others, and is hardly a pure capitalistic system, where its every man for himself.

It is my belief that with obvious ebbs and tides, the human race will always strive for the good of the human race, and the planet at large, but it will be a slow process, and will always be hampered by those with power who hold their self intrests above the interests of the general public. At the same time, the efforts will be greatly helped by those with power and money, who truly want to help the human race.

Overall, we have evolved quite a bit over the way the world once was. Some of the freedoms we now have, were unheard of years ago, and unimaginable many years ago.

We have hardly come far enough, but its obvious that we want to. And its possible that at some time, we may all be communists, in the regard that we are all working towards the betterment of the human race, but in our own and individual way. But for now, communism is simply unrealistic, and because of its structure, essentially becomes a corrupt system, and really is against all human instincts.

I think for now, focusing on a capitalistic system, where work=reward is the best system, that makes basic sense, and as long as there are controls to protect against unbalanced power, will be the best way for the human race to advance...assuming it is able to avoid wiping itself out, in essentially power struggles, and petty disagreements which considering our plight, and our short lives on this little fragile planet...really are kind of silly in the end.

Right now the world is just 4 idiots on a row boat in the middle of the ocean.

All four want to go in a different direction, for different reasons, and they are all paddling against the others hoping to get there.

[Titanic]

Isn't the social caste in India based off of the color/shade of skin? The darker it is, the lower on the caste system you are?

The caste system is based heavily on where you come from, what your job is and what your parents (or even further backs) jobs are/were. I've never heard it to be based on skin colour. The system is dying of now as India become more urbanised.

Those quotes that GabonX put up were actually Ghandi quotes, although I don't think he was proud of those comments later on in his life.

[Simon Viavant]

Thank you to all of the civil debaters in this thread.

On topic:

I am appalled that almost no one in this thread has any sense of human decency. Last year, somewhere in America, there was a little girl who starved to death. It wasn't because she did something wrong, only because she was born to poor parents, who were born to poor parents, etc, all the way back since our unofficial aristocrats stole their livelihood to line their own pockets. Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion. All of you are monsters. You would rather hold on to your pitiful stability at the expense of everyone's freedom, and you don't care that a little girl dies, as long as you don't know her. I am ashamed to be part of this country.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Where are the little 6th form commie boys now?

wondering how someone who writes things like "big, marxist governments" can possibly think himself smarter than other people

[Rustovitch]

Thank you to all of the civil debaters in this thread.

Yes thank you to all the civil debaters that avoided making such comments as,

Stop spamming this thread and making bigoted uncivil arguments.

Of course with your deluded bias and stubborn resistance to see facts you couldn't grasp that notion.

I am appalled that almost no one in this thread has any sense of human decency.

All of you are monsters.

You would rather hold on to your pitiful stability at the expense of everyone's freedom, and you don't care that a little girl dies, as long as you don't know her. I am ashamed to be part of this country.

[HapSmo19]

Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion....

Which communist country is this again?

[Rustovitch]

Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion....

Which communist country is this again?

He never got around to saying and apparently it's bigoted to ask!

[thegreekdog]

Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion....

Which communist country is this again?

Cuba.

[Rustovitch]

Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion....

Which communist country is this again?

Cuba.

Fail.

[thegreekdog]

Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion....

Which communist country is this again?

Cuba.

Fail.

Is Fail in South America somewhere? Can't find it on the map.

[PLAYER57832]

Thank you to all of the civil debaters in this thread.

On topic:

I am appalled that almost no one in this thread has any sense of human decency. Last year, somewhere in America, there was a little girl who starved to death. It wasn't because she did something wrong, only because she was born to poor parents, who were born to poor parents, etc, all the way back since our unofficial aristocrats stole their livelihood to line their own pockets. Compare that to a communist country where the wealth is in the hands of the people, and everyone is treated equally, where murderers and sociopaths are rehabilitated and given a second chance instead of murdered or put in prison, where there are no poor, and the lamb rules the lion. All of you are monsters. You would rather hold on to your pitiful stability at the expense of everyone's freedom, and you don't care that a little girl dies, as long as you don't know her. I am ashamed to be part of this country.

It would be nice if communist countries actually operated as you suggest. However, the real communist countries are really just authoritarian states that begin with less wealth than the capitalistic ones. (or where the true wealth leaves before the new administration comes in, for the most part). When people are starving they are willing to give up a lot of freedom just for food... include education and you get even wider support.

If we want to win the "hearts and minds" of poor countries, those are the issues we have to tackle in real and practical ways. Too many aid programs are geared strictly at solving short-term needs and not long term problems. Sure, if someone is thirsty sometimes you can't wait until a well is dug. Still, if you don't take steps to dig the well, or find out why none was dug before, you don't really solve anything.

Also, painting this as a choice between altruism/caring/sharing wealth and lack of caring/profit movies misses many of the long term priorities and fixes. One of the main reasons, for example, we need to rebuild schools and ensure Afghanistan has a functioning economy again is to ward off the Taliban permanently. Right now, most Afghans are sitting on the fence, afraid to take much from the US because once the US leaves... the Taliban will come in. We need to ensure that the locals have enough power.. education, money, etc. to ward off the Taliban before we leave. It is altruism to help Afghanistan, but it is also very much in our interest.

[Simon Viavant]

You are monsters, all of you. You show a lack of human emotion, that you would rather be rich and have the masses dying of starvation than stability and prosperity for all. Either that or you are mindless sheep swallowing the idiotic propaganda of our capitalist American aristocracy.

This propaganda has been proven false, as none of you can even make a good debate, and must resort to petty insults. To all of the good pro-communists out there, join me in the fight for freedom against our unnamed overlords. The will of the people will triumph once again.

[Rustovitch]

You are monsters, all of you. You show a lack of human emotion, that you would rather be rich and have the masses dying of starvation than stability and prosperity for all.

No we aren't Communists, we don't want the massive gap between rich and poor, the famines, the instability and the poverty that Communism brings.

[thegreekdog]

You are monsters, all of you. You show a lack of human emotion, that you would rather be rich and have the masses dying of starvation than stability and prosperity for all. Either that or you are mindless sheep swallowing the idiotic propaganda of our capitalist American aristocracy.

This propaganda has been proven false, as none of you can even make a good debate, and must resort to petty insults. To all of the good pro-communists out there, join me in the fight for freedom against our unnamed overlords. The will of the people will triumph once again.

I don't think our overlords are unnamed.

[Rustovitch]

You are monsters, all of you. You show a lack of human emotion, that you would rather be rich and have the masses dying of starvation than stability and prosperity for all. Either that or you are mindless sheep swallowing the idiotic propaganda of our capitalist American aristocracy.

This propaganda has been proven false, as none of you can even make a good debate, and must resort to petty insults. To all of the good pro-communists out there, join me in the fight for freedom against our unnamed overlords. The will of the people will triumph once again.

I don't think our overlords are unnamed.

Do you think he is just messing about or he actually means what he types?

[thegreekdog]

You are monsters, all of you. You show a lack of human emotion, that you would rather be rich and have the masses dying of starvation than stability and prosperity for all. Either that or you are mindless sheep swallowing the idiotic propaganda of our capitalist American aristocracy.

This propaganda has been proven false, as none of you can even make a good debate, and must resort to petty insults. To all of the good pro-communists out there, join me in the fight for freedom against our unnamed overlords. The will of the people will triumph once again.

I don't think our overlords are unnamed.

Do you think he is just messing about or he actually means what he types?

Um... he's messing about dude.

So was I, by the way... with the Cuba post.

No worries though, we all get fooled once in a while.