Is posting a political thread on this forum pointless?

[xelabale]

Same posters, same argument, 2/3 of the board taken up with it. It's just inane.

Scenario
OP posts slanted view of given topic
Idea is countered by opposite thinker
Randoms troll in with how st00pid one side or the other is
Attempt at serious debate quickly degenerates into mud-slinging
Around page 6 someone posts an essay no-one else can be bothered to read
Thread slides into obscurity

Outcome
People who post become more entrenched in their views without ever actually thinking or learning
Onlookers get small lulz from a couple of the more inventive insults/ridiculous claims but conclude it just wasn't worth it

Solution
Get more imaginative people. Post a satire, write a story, be creative, wind up someone in a clever way that doesn't involve flaming, politics or religion, spoof cc, introduce us to something new, etc etc.
Admittedly most of the people intellectually creative enough to do this have been banned, but let's give it a go, eh? If you can be bothered to come to this forum at least be bothered to be entertaining. I mean, I don't care if you annoy the shit out of me, if it's entertaining it's ok.

Get Innocuous.

[PLAYER57832]

There certainly are people here who operate that way, but there is also some communication. I have learned many things here, as have others.

No, I am not going to "lose my religion" and covert to Hinduism based on discussions here. However, even if you don't convince someone of other ideas, simply being better aware of what others think is a goal in and of itself.

The truest learning is not always about convincing someone you are correct. Sometimes just understanding an other position is of great value. And, don't forget "the Socratial method". Challenging and attacking a position sometimes is the best way to learn about it.

I would put forward greekdog as an example. We absolutely disagree on many things. However, I have learned a lot from his postings. He has challenged me to think through my own thoughts more, pointed out areas where I need to do more work and, sometimes, convinced me my position was wrong (mostly in smaller ways, but real ways). I suspect he might say something the same about I.

I can point to many others, but he is a current active poster.

[AAFitz]

Actually It depends what you mean by pointless...

If your point is to convince someone you are right, and they are wrong, then well, yes, it probably is pointless.

However, if you only wish to discuss the topic, present your side, and see some of the other views on the subject, and in the process incur a troll or two, than its not pointless at all.

Without a doubt, the diversity, however juvenile some of the posts may be, does add to the debate. Again, Its more of an entertainment, than a true learning experience, or opinion changing process, but its at least entertainment, where small bits of info are sometimes presented, that the other side just by reading, is forced to consider, however briefly.

So, no its not pointless at all, but I doubt its as useful as the OP usually hopes for.

player...fastposted me by a minute...

[Rustovitch]

We just have a lot of very stupid angry children here, it's probably best just to pretend that their posts have no bearing on the general thread, but instead simply reply to the worthwhile people.

[PLAYER57832]

Actually It depends what you mean by pointless...

If your point is to convince someone you are right, and they are wrong, then well, yes, it probably is pointless.

However, if you only wish to discuss the topic, present your side, and see some of the other views on the subject, and in the process incur a troll or two, than its not pointless at all.

Without a doubt, the diversity, however juvenile some of the posts may be, does add to the debate. Again, Its more of an entertainment, than a true learning experience, or opinion changing process, but its at least entertainment, where small bits of info are sometimes presented, that the other side just by reading, is forced to consider, however briefly.

So, no its not pointless at all, but I doubt its as useful as the OP usually hopes for.

player...fastposted me by a minute...

You worded things differently..

One example, for me, is Creationism. I have learned a lot more about it here, but also things I have read and heard here have given me a bit more impetus to go out and seek better answers. I am not sure I would have delved into Dr Morris website quite as much as I have were I not challenged so much here.

[jsholty4690]

I agree with you that most of the political threads normally turn into shouting matches between two or three people. There are only a handfull of people who do it and it gets annoying to those who want an intelligent discussion of the topics. I know I've stopped going into a lot of these threads because of what you pointed out in your post. It seems like people on both sides want to see how fast they can get the other to cave in by calling their other names. What are they four?

But like player said, there are some people that try to challenge other people's views. It seems like they want to learn how the other side really thinks about an issue, instead of listening to their normal means of getting news (i.e. CNN or Talk Radio). We just need more intelligent posters and find a way to marginalize those who just post to get into arguments with the other side.

[PLAYER57832]

I agree with you that most of the political threads normally turn into shouting matches between two or three people. There are only a handfull of people who do it and it gets annoying to those who want an intelligent discussion of the topics. I know I've stopped going into a lot of these threads because of what you pointed out in your post. It seems like people on both sides want to see how fast they can get the other to cave in by calling their other names. What are they four?

But like player said, there are some people that try to challenge other people's views. It seems like they want to learn how the other side really thinks about an issue, instead of listening to their normal means of getting news (i.e. CNN or Talk Radio). We just need more intelligent posters and find a way to marginalize those who just post to get into arguments with the other side.

Real University has some nice discussions going on at times. Lately, it has gotten rather dead, mostly because the biggest issues have already been fairly hashed out... and because, ironically, the main forum has been relatively civil of late. It is starting to drop back down to where it was when Real U started, but the worst abusers have largely gone. (or maybe I am just more willing to take them on ... )

[thegreekdog]

Wasn't there some kind of topic about dividing up threads into different fora - i.e. one political forum, one sports forum, one other forum. I think that may be what you're looking for xela.

[pimpdave]

Admittedly most of the people intellectually creative enough to do this have been banned, but let's give it a go, eh?

Yeah, and how pointless are the threads we start about all of that?

They go nowhere, so Robespierre types like Night Strike get to permanently ruin the fun for all of us, just because his panties are all in a bunch over the fact that W. Bush's administration didn't actually begin the thousand year reich he was so desperately praying would take root.

[xelabale]

Wasn't there some kind of topic about dividing up threads into different fora - i.e. one political forum, one sports forum, one other forum. I think that may be what you're looking for xela.

I don't want it split, I wanna see more inventiveness, interesting posts, wit and creativity. Am I on the wrong forum?

[thegreekdog]

Wasn't there some kind of topic about dividing up threads into different fora - i.e. one political forum, one sports forum, one other forum. I think that may be what you're looking for xela.

I don't want it split, I wanna see more inventiveness, interesting posts, wit and creativity. Am I on the wrong forum?

Yes. I think you want Flame Wars. Hopefully I won't get banned for typing that phrase.

[MrWainthrope]

I don't want it split, I wanna see more inventiveness, interesting posts, wit and creativity. Am I on the wrong forum?

For that, you will need inventive, interesting, witty, creative people.

Perhaps that's where things are going wrong around here?

[pimpdave]

Yes. I think you want Flame Wars. Hopefully I won't get banned for typing that phrase.

Dude, please stop with posing as if you'll ever get banned. You're one of the favorites (to whom the rules don't apply)...

[jonesthecurl]

Well, I think it's gottten a bit stagnant and repetetive at the moment, but I have enjoyed reading and accasionally particiipating in debates before, and have even gone away and looked stuff up, picked up a coupla books, etc on subjects that were hot topics at the time.

I think we should agree for the moment that nothing new or persuasive is likely to be put forward here on the subject of healthcare, however.

[MrWainthrope]

nothing persuasive is likely to be put forward here on the subject of healthcare, however.

Shut up Stalin!!!

We must keep repeating Fox News and showing pointless Teabagging videos in hundreds of threads until everybody accepts that the free-market is the only way of providing healthcare in the whole world and that all of these stories about disgusting socialism working perfectly in other countries are filthy lies. Also: Obama = Satan.


Vote Palin 2012!!!

[thegreekdog]

nothing persuasive is likely to be put forward here on the subject of healthcare, however.

Shut up Stalin!!!

We must keep repeating Fox News and showing pointless Teabagging videos in hundreds of threads until everybody accepts that the free-market is the only way of providing healthcare in the whole world and that all of these stories about disgusting socialism working perfectly in other countries are filthy lies. Also: Obama = Satan.


Vote Palin 2012!!!

Shut up Hitler!

We must keep repeating MSNBC and showing Teabagging videos while making sexual references and calling you racists until everybody expects that anyone who disagrees with the president is racist and/or an igorant hick. The only way to provide anything to anyone is through government because government knows best. Also: Obama = God.

[Frigidus]

nothing persuasive is likely to be put forward here on the subject of healthcare, however.

Shut up Stalin!!!

We must keep repeating Fox News and showing pointless Teabagging videos in hundreds of threads until everybody accepts that the free-market is the only way of providing healthcare in the whole world and that all of these stories about disgusting socialism working perfectly in other countries are filthy lies. Also: Obama = Satan.


Vote Palin 2012!!!

Shut up Hitler!

We must keep repeating MSNBC and showing Teabagging videos while making sexual references and calling you racists until everybody expects that anyone who disagrees with the president is racist and/or an igorant hick. The only way to provide anything to anyone is through government because government knows best. Also: Obama = God.

Ooooooo, MadLibs! My turn.

Shut up Joe Pesci!

We must keep repeating NPR and showing nude pix to the Polish so that we might pave the way for a sweet Beatles reunion tour using only charisma and necromancy. Also: Bruce Wayne = Batman.

[PLAYER57832]

Wasn't there some kind of topic about dividing up threads into different fora - i.e. one political forum, one sports forum, one other forum. I think that may be what you're looking for xela.

I don't want it split, I wanna see more inventiveness, interesting posts, wit and creativity. Am I on the wrong forum?

Yes. I think you want Flame Wars. Hopefully I won't get banned for typing that phrase.

Since when did having serious discussions mean humor was excluded? Seems there should be room for each. And yes, you will always get some who oversstep bounds whatevery those bounds are. It is human nature, not a reason to give up on doing what you wish. If you want more creativity .. BE more creative. I have learned my attempts generally fail, so while I appreciate humor in others, I tend to say serious myself, at least here where subtleties are hard to convey.

As for Flame Wars.. .since when did creativity require abuse and foul language? Seems true creativity is learning to express yourself within bounds.

[PLAYER57832]

I think we should agree for the moment that nothing new or persuasive is likely to be put forward here on the subject of healthcare, however.

Perhaps, but I have learned a lot from links and posts here.

[Neoteny]

Indeed. The benefit I get from participating in a political thread is that, even if someone says "they're going to kill grandma," I then have the motivation to actually do research to find that they actually aren't. I might not be educating whoever started the discussion, but I do come away feeling more educated. That's one of the reasons why I participate.

[got tonkaed]

Although its always silly to do the forums were different in the old days, let me do that.

I do think there was a slightly different cast of posters at one time, who had a slightly different view on political threads. Granted a lot of stuff was fresh like jay posting threads about God or Iraq or different threads about gay marriage and abortion and the like. A lot of that stuff has been done by now so to speak.

I used to say that i felt like there were two basic posting styles about political stuff, two sides seeking to present their points of view and two sides attempting to win at something. Neither approach is better or worse in my opinion but as things started to shift one way to the other some of the people who used to post a lot more didnt as much. Without a large enough group of posters everyone knows what each other is going to say and theres not really that much except to do the same old same old.

[thegreekdog]

As for Flame Wars.. .since when did creativity require abuse and foul language? Seems true creativity is learning to express yourself within bounds.

You seem to be implying that Flame Wars required abuse and foul language. Maybe you're right about abuse, but I never resorted to foul language in Flame Wars. Neither did xela as far as I know.

[PLAYER57832]

As for Flame Wars.. .since when did creativity require abuse and foul language? Seems true creativity is learning to express yourself within bounds.

You seem to be implying that Flame Wars required abuse and foul language. Maybe you're right about abuse, but I never resorted to foul language in Flame Wars. Neither did xela as far as I know.

I only visited Flame wars once, when a thread I posted in was moved there. I speak only of the reputation and many of the complaints I have seen voiced about it since.

[xelabale]

As for Flame Wars.. .since when did creativity require abuse and foul language? Seems true creativity is learning to express yourself within bounds.

You seem to be implying that Flame Wars required abuse and foul language. Maybe you're right about abuse, but I never resorted to foul language in Flame Wars. Neither did xela as far as I know.

f*ck off, that's way out of line. Dickhead.

It must be said that the better posters were less foul-mouthed, though the odd explosion seemed quite funny. It seems I was only there in it's dying days anyway, so what do I know. I can't believe they let Prowler kill it.

So it seems people are learning, that's something. Player said a couple of posts ago that this doesn't have to exclude humour or entertainment - let's make a pact of being incredibly hilarious whilst still subtly slagging the opposing point of view and even learning something in the process. Right, who's first?

[PLAYER57832]

So it seems people are learning, that's something. Player said a couple of posts ago that this doesn't have to exclude humour or entertainment - let's make a pact of being incredibly hilarious whilst still subtly slagging the opposing point of view and even learning something in the process. Right, who's first?

IN the interest of keeping humor ... humorous, I will abstain from participating. However, I will enjoy.