Is Believing In God...?

[Snorri1234]

There's much more to religion than made up stories and elaborate myths.

There is?

[joecoolfrog]

It never ceases to amaze me the amount hatred and anger expressed by some of the hard core atheists on this site.

I bet I am more amazed by the amount of people in the USA who truly believe the World to be only 6000 years old

[Timminz]

There's much more to religion than made up stories and elaborate myths.

There is?

Duh!!

There's the whole using-those-stories-to-gain-power-over-the-masses thing.

[thegreekdog]

My contention remains that in our modern society religion has little to no effect on the day to day lives of people who don't want it to have an effect on their day to day lives (with some big exceptions... like gay marriage). Have some horrible things been done in the name of religion in the past? Absolutely. But horrible things have been done in the name of nationalism, money, and power in the past as well (not to justify things religions have done). I'm not sure organized religion or the belief in God is where people should focus their efforts (or anger, as the case may be).

[Snorri1234]

My contention remains that in our modern society religion has little to no effect on the day to day lives of people who don't want it to have an effect on their day to day lives (with some big exceptions... like gay marriage). Have some horrible things been done in the name of religion in the past? Absolutely. But horrible things have been done in the name of nationalism, money, and power in the past as well (not to justify things religions have done). I'm not sure organized religion or the belief in God is where people should focus their efforts (or anger, as the case may be).

I agree with you, allthough I'd say religion does have an effect on people still that shouldn't be ignored. There's still intolerance and hatred, and sure that doesn't actually stem from the religion itself but the religion is used as a tool to breed it.

But religion should indeed not be the focus, because focusing on the religion itself won't work. It's not the cause, it's the tool and it's a tool that can be used for good and bad.

[thegreekdog]

My contention remains that in our modern society religion has little to no effect on the day to day lives of people who don't want it to have an effect on their day to day lives (with some big exceptions... like gay marriage). Have some horrible things been done in the name of religion in the past? Absolutely. But horrible things have been done in the name of nationalism, money, and power in the past as well (not to justify things religions have done). I'm not sure organized religion or the belief in God is where people should focus their efforts (or anger, as the case may be).

I agree with you, allthough I'd say religion does have an effect on people still that shouldn't be ignored. There's still intolerance and hatred, and sure that doesn't actually stem from the religion itself but the religion is used as a tool to breed it.

But religion should indeed not be the focus, because focusing on the religion itself won't work. It's not the cause, it's the tool and it's a tool that can be used for good and bad.

I'm thinking of this as a US issue (that seems to be the tenor of this thread), but I'm sure religion has an even more substantive negative effect in other nations.

[Snorri1234]

My contention remains that in our modern society religion has little to no effect on the day to day lives of people who don't want it to have an effect on their day to day lives (with some big exceptions... like gay marriage). Have some horrible things been done in the name of religion in the past? Absolutely. But horrible things have been done in the name of nationalism, money, and power in the past as well (not to justify things religions have done). I'm not sure organized religion or the belief in God is where people should focus their efforts (or anger, as the case may be).

I agree with you, allthough I'd say religion does have an effect on people still that shouldn't be ignored. There's still intolerance and hatred, and sure that doesn't actually stem from the religion itself but the religion is used as a tool to breed it.

But religion should indeed not be the focus, because focusing on the religion itself won't work. It's not the cause, it's the tool and it's a tool that can be used for good and bad.

I'm thinking of this as a US issue (that seems to be the tenor of this thread), but I'm sure religion has an even more substantive negative effect in other nations.

Yeah in places like the Middle East and pretty much everywhere that isn't Western Europe, but I suppose religion and culture are so intertwined you can't really blame on or the other.

[ser stiefel]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

Another interesting point, is that for Christians (followers of Christ) this shouldn't be surprising at all. Jesus pointed out that his followers should expect it.

John 15:18-19 (New International Version)

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

As some others have pointed out, truth is truth whether or not people believe it. Either Jesus is real, and the Bible is true, or he isn't real and the Bible isn't true. I am not sure why people who think it is a good ideo to "not steal" "not kill" etc., are viewed as such bad people. So what if they are being good for no apparent reason, then!

Would the world have been better off without Mother Theresa? (I am not catholic, but I cannot deny her extensive and profound impact on our world for good). In the US we wouldn't have had The Salvation Army or the YMCA without "religion".

Can you present counter examples of people who have done terrible things in the name of religion? Of course! But does that erase the good that others have done?

[Frigidus]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

When did we say we hate Jesus? Finding evidence for his existence tentative hardly counts as hating him.

Oh, and Christianity doesn't lay claim to banning theft and murder. It's not like the world was OK with killing people prior to the 10 Commandments.

[Snorri1234]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

It is also interesting that I have never actually met anyone who says they hate the name Jesus Christ.

[ser stiefel]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

When did we say we hate Jesus? Finding evidence for his existence tentative hardly counts as hating him.

Oh, and Christianity doesn't lay claim to banning theft and murder. It's not like the world was OK with killing people prior to the 10 Commandments.

I was not accusing anyone who posted in this thread of hating Jesus. Just commenting that of all the religious figures, he seems to be the only one who actually is hated by a great many people, and that if a christian posts something that non-religious people have a problem with that they (the christians) shouldn't be surprised.

Of course you are correct there have always been notions of good and evil, including prior to the 10 Commandments.

I was just commenting that the world with religion is often impacted for good. And a world without "religion" would be missing some of the good things that appear to only have come about because of religion.

[ser stiefel]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

It is also interesting that I have never actually met anyone who says they hate the name Jesus Christ.

I was thinking of examples where hate is displayed rather than stated. I have met many people who in their conversations discussing Jesus, seem to indicate that they hate the very idea of someone like Jesus even existing.

I also don't recall ever hearing anyone say, "I hate the name of Jesus Christ" (except in extreme cases involving someone like Marlyn Manson, but this would not be representative of the typical person, I think). So I cede that point to you, Snorri.

[Aradhus]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

It is also interesting that I have never actually met anyone who says they hate the name Jesus Christ.

I was thinking of examples where hate is displayed rather than stated. I have met many people who in their conversations discussing Jesus, seem to indicate that they hate the very idea of someone like Jesus even existing.

People hate the lies, the manipulation, the hypocrisy, the stupidity, the general allround bullshit. That is what they're responding to.

[ser stiefel]

People hate the lies, the manipulation, the hypocrisy, the stupidity, the general allround bullshit. That is what they're responding to.

Point taken.

But perhaps there are some (Mother Theresa, as an example) who do live up to the expectations? Or is there no-one who claims to be religious that isn't a lying, manipulative, hypocritical, and stupid person. Would the world be truly better off without religion? I am suggesting that there is some good that comes from religion.

[Baron Von PWN]

Personally, I like forcing people to believe in God (specifically Catholicism) by helping Congress pass laws restricting all other religions and requiring mandated belief in God. Ideally, the Anti-Atheist project that we have going will take away that ridiculous Establishment Clause in the US Constitution.

You must be jokeing

If you think I'm serious, then you must really have an issue with religious people. Do they force their religion(s) upon you in Canada?

You can never be too sure on the internet.

[Baron Von PWN]

It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.

Another interesting point, is that for Christians (followers of Christ) this shouldn't be surprising at all. Jesus pointed out that his followers should expect it.

John 15:18-19 (New International Version)

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

As some others have pointed out, truth is truth whether or not people believe it. Either Jesus is real, and the Bible is true, or he isn't real and the Bible isn't true. I am not sure why people who think it is a good ideo to "not steal" "not kill" etc., are viewed as such bad people. So what if they are being good for no apparent reason, then!

Would the world have been better off without Mother Theresa? (I am not catholic, but I cannot deny her extensive and profound impact on our world for good). In the US we wouldn't have had The Salvation Army or the YMCA without "religion".

Can you present counter examples of people who have done terrible things in the name of religion? Of course! But does that erase the good that others have done?

Certainly there have been many charitible people who have done so through a devotion to god or their Religion. However they could have been just as charitable without god , in fact there are many secular charitable organisations. Basicly if someone is predisposed to be charitable they would be charitable either way. Humanity is somewhat hardwired to be chairitable, its in the genes, so we would be cheritable whatever we beleive.

I think it is the Religious who actively campaing against things like abortion, gay rights , make things hard for other religious people that give a bad name to the others. So the problem is while they think it's good not to steal and murder, they might also think its a good idea to hate "fags".

[Raskholnikov]

Back to the original question. Best explanation ever given:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtWr04MBGYI

[joecoolfrog]

[quote="ser stiefel"]It is interesting that the name Jesus Christ is the only name that people seem to really, really hate.


I would say what is really interesting is your motivation for making this up......paranoia ?
My experience is that many people , who do not buy into religion, still respect the message of peace and love that is portrayed by the character of Jesus.

[Timminz]

ser stiefel brings up an excellent point about the persecution complex that, too often, seems to go along with basing your life around a story of a severely persecuted man.

[luns101]

People hate the lies, the manipulation, the hypocrisy, the stupidity, the general allround bullshit. That is what they're responding to.

Of course they do. You'll find just as much lying, manipulation, hypocrisy, stupidity, and BS outside of the church as you will on the inside. Churches aren't museums for saintly perfectionists, they're places to meet with other hypocrites that admit to engaging in it, confess it, and encourage each other to stop living a life that justifies or rationalizes it.

As for Christians, we believe that the things you mentioned above are symptoms of a sin nature that rebels against God's authority. We struggle with it just as much as any of you "non-believers".

[jay_a2j]

A world full of atheists? With no hope for an after-life? Just your 70 years or so, then non-existence? Making what you do in those 70 or so years absolutely meaningless? I think not.

[jammyjames]

relegion is for dicks...

[Timminz]

A world full of atheists? With no hope for an after-life? Just your 70 years or so, then non-existence? Making what you do in those 70 or so years absolutely meaningless? I think not.

I guess that depends on your perspective. The way I see it, it makes those years infinitely more meaningful, as they are all I've got. From my perspective, you're wasting the only moments of existence you'll ever have.

[Army of GOD]

Deja Vu



http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... n#p2193948

[BigBallinStalin]

Deja Vu



http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... n#p2193948

The battle of ideologies still rages on.