Is Believing In God...?

[Chao]

Yes, the world would be better off if everyone was atheist.

That being said, the world would be better off if everyone was Christian or Islamic or Jewish or Voodoo or whatever.

If the entire world followed 1 set of beliefs, we'd be better off.

So what your saying is that if everyone was one then we wouldn't have to argue about things, right? We are all interconnected or inter-are.

Pretty much. At the very least, if everyone held the same system of beliefs, conflicts resolving around belief systems would be eliminated. For example, this thread never would have happened...

[john9blue]

To say "the universe wasn't created by God" is a statement of faith, right? That's atheism.

And if everyone had the same beliefs, it means we'd all be frighteningly similar/closed-minded imo.

[Frigidus]

To say "the universe wasn't created by God" is a statement of faith, right? That's atheism.

But there are plenty of things we don't believe. I don't believe in dark magic or centaurs. Is that a statement of faith? If so, virtually any belief on anything is a statement of faith.

[BigBallinStalin]

Yes, the world would be better off if everyone was atheist.

That being said, the world would be better off if everyone was Christian or Islamic or Jewish or Voodoo or whatever.

If the entire world followed 1 set of beliefs, we'd be better off.

Perhaps, if every living creature was a bunny rabbit, we'd all be better off.

[CreepersWiener]

Why do people insist on comparing God to unicorns, fairies, FSM's, etc.? These beings are finite because you are giving them properties by naming them according to mythological figures. God is unique and infinite. Saying "God is like these things and these things don't exist, therefore God doesn't exist" is wrong because:

- God is not like those things
- Those things probably don't exist, but it's possible to imagine a scenario in which they did (e.g. Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, etc.). If it's possible for God to exist, and the universe arguably couldn't exist if God didn't exist, then God arguably exists.

The whole thing is a ridiculous straw man and I can't believe people are so idiotic as to make this comparison.

Prove it...

[CreepersWiener]

It doesn't matter if god is real or not. There is a lot to be said about the power of prayer and hope as healing.....

Okay...I actually can agree with this point. That if the belief in said supernatural entities and powers leads to some type of psychosomatic physical healing of the body (or even the mind, of which makes that person a more civilized individual), that that would be a positive thing. But it doesn't prove that there is a God or gods in the Universe, but only shows that through such positive belief one can influence individual health.

I have seen such instant healings first hand on the Hopi Reservation, and am quite open minded to this possibility in the world. Does that prove the existence of God or gods? I don't think so. But it does show that such belief can have a healing effect on the body.

The practice of certain Buddhist meditative techniques and the practice of Reiki can also have positive physical influences on the body, without a pronounced belief in a deity.

[CreepersWiener]

Yes, the world would be better off if everyone was atheist.

That being said, the world would be better off if everyone was Christian or Islamic or Jewish or Voodoo or whatever.

If the entire world followed 1 set of beliefs, we'd be better off.

SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL!!!

[Nola_Lifer]

Yes, the world would be better off if everyone was atheist.

That being said, the world would be better off if everyone was Christian or Islamic or Jewish or Voodoo or whatever.

If the entire world followed 1 set of beliefs, we'd be better off.

So what your saying is that if everyone was one then we wouldn't have to argue about things, right? We are all interconnected or inter-are.

Pretty much. At the very least, if everyone held the same system of beliefs, conflicts resolving around belief systems would be eliminated. For example, this thread never would have happened...

I think we would just sit here and laugh.
Three Friends
"There were three friends
Discussing life:
'Can men live together
Work together
And produce nothing?
Can they fly around in space
And forget to exist
World without end?'
The three friends looked at each other
And burst out laughing.
They had no explanation.
Thus they were better friends than before."

[Nola_Lifer]

It doesn't matter if god is real or not. There is a lot to be said about the power of prayer and hope as healing.....

Who does the praying and who does the hoping? YOU DO!

[neanderpaul14]

But there are plenty of things we don't believe. I don't believe in dark magic or centaurs. Is that a statement of faith? If so, virtually any belief on anything is a statement of faith.

You don't believe in centaurs??? You HEATHEN. You must now be stoned to death by all centaur believers

[MeDeFe]

Indeed they do.

If A and B then A

That is what you have shown. Unfortunately for you that is trivial.

If it's possible for God to exist premise A, given to be true , and the universe arguably couldn't exist premise B, conclusion of the cos. argument among others, hence "arguably" if God didn't exist premise C, used in the cos. argument , then God arguably exists conclusion from premises A and B, therefore true if you accept the cos. argument or others, hence "arguably" .

That's about as simple as it gets. If A and B, then C. Really A is unnecessary to all but strong atheists, B can stand alone with the obvious premise that "the universe exists".

Given that you say C follows from A and B and that C is a premise in your argument I'm not sure how seriously I can take you. But let's go back to what you said at first.

If it's possible for God to exist, and the universe arguably couldn't exist if God didn't exist, then God arguably exists.

If
(it is possible for god to exist
and
(if
god didn't exist
then
the universe arguably couldn't exist))
then
god arguably exists.


I was wrong initially, you have shown something other than I first said. What you have shown is that people can argue about god's existence. The embedded if-clause is not relevant for your conclusion, however.

[Aradhus]

It doesn't matter if god is real or not. There is a lot to be said about the power of prayer and hope as healing.....

Really, what? I've seen lots of studies where prayer does zippo. Nadda. Zilch. Nothing.

What you actually mean is, there is a lot to be said for the power of lying to/deluding yourself. People convince themselves of bullshite everyday. Bullshite which affects their actions, their decisions.

[luns101]

But there are plenty of things we don't believe. I don't believe in dark magic or centaurs. Is that a statement of faith? If so, virtually any belief on anything is a statement of faith.

You don't believe in centaurs??? You HEATHEN. You must now be stoned to death by all centaur believers

I think that would fall under the category of being trampled to death if you're referring to the Centaurians. Anyways, Frigidus gets a free pass because he worships Mike Ditka.

[Snorri1234]

Why do people insist on comparing God to unicorns, fairies, FSM's, etc.? These beings are finite because you are giving them properties by naming them according to mythological figures. God is unique and infinite. Saying "God is like these things and these things don't exist, therefore God doesn't exist" is wrong because:

- God is not like those things
- Those things probably don't exist, but it's possible to imagine a scenario in which they did (e.g. Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, etc.). If it's possible for God to exist, and the universe arguably couldn't exist if God didn't exist, then God arguably exists.

The whole thing is a ridiculous straw man and I can't believe people are so idiotic as to make this comparison.

I'm getting a little tired of morons who completely miss the point of the comparison.

[Chao]

Yes, the world would be better off if everyone was atheist.

That being said, the world would be better off if everyone was Christian or Islamic or Jewish or Voodoo or whatever.

If the entire world followed 1 set of beliefs, we'd be better off.

SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL!!!

I don't see the connection between what I said and Nazi Germany.

[Aradhus]

If we were all Nazis would the world be better off..Is the point.

[john9blue]

I'm getting a little tired of morons who completely miss the point of the comparison.

Yeah, the childish humor.

[Snorri1234]

I'm getting a little tired of morons who completely miss the point of the comparison.

Yeah, the childish humor.

No you dipshit.

The point of the comparison is that the fact you can't prove God doesn't exist holds true for all those things too. You can't prove there is not invisible undetectable pink unicorn right next to you. It's only an attack on the "unproveability" that a lot of theists and agnostics cite. It doesn't have to be something ridiculous (allthough the concept of an all-knowing, all-powerfull entity who loves you like crazy but only chooses to appear on burned toast or shows himself trough actions undistinguishable from random cooincidences unless you're being wilfully obtuse is quite ridiculous) but it's merely to make the point.

The fact that these things are "finite", or whatever bollocks-term you're using to reason yourself out of the fact your position is illogical, is irrelevant. They are things that cannot be proven to not exist. You have no trouble dismissing those things as ridiculous but when it's "G-O-D" suddenly you bend yourself in strange twists and turns to make your stupid beliefs seem "reasonable".

You can't prove there isn't an all-powerfull, all-knowing dude out there who doesn't give a f*ck about you and might even hate you. If you argue that that is ridiculous you're being intelectually dishonest.

The cosmological argument is also crap btw.

[john9blue]

No you dipshit.

This is gonna be good...

The point of the comparison is that the fact you can't prove God doesn't exist holds true for all those things too. You can't prove there is not invisible undetectable pink unicorn right next to you. It's only an attack on the "unproveability" that a lot of theists and agnostics cite. It doesn't have to be something ridiculous (allthough the concept of an all-knowing, all-powerfull entity who loves you like crazy but only chooses to appear on burned toast or shows himself trough actions undistinguishable from random cooincidences unless you're being wilfully obtuse is quite ridiculous) but it's merely to make the point.

Yeah, you can't disprove those things either.

The fact that these things are "finite", or whatever bollocks-term you're using to reason yourself out of the fact your position is illogical, is irrelevant. They are things that cannot be proven to not exist. You have no trouble dismissing those things as ridiculous but when it's "G-O-D" suddenly you bend yourself in strange twists and turns to make your stupid beliefs seem "reasonable".

There's no evidence at all for the unicorn. There's evidence for a Creator- the whole universe and how it operates.

You can't prove there isn't an all-powerfull, all-knowing dude out there who doesn't give a f*ck about you and might even hate you. If you argue that that is ridiculous you're being intelectually dishonest.

It's true, not ridiculous. Judging by how my life goes sometimes I feel like God is out to get me...

The cosmological argument is also crap btw.

Well that settles that! I will accept this without reason as it came from the divine keyboard of snorri.

[Aradhus]

I see hoofprints in the ground all the time.. Could it be the prints of a unicorn?? Boom, evidence unicorns exist!..

The Universe is evidence.. of the universe. You're making an illogical leap that one thing is somehow evidence of something else enitirely. And then you take that even further be claiming to know the actions of this other thing.

[Neoteny]

I see hoofprints in the ground all the time.. Could it be the prints of a unicorn?? Boom, evidence unicorns exist!..

The Universe is evidence.. of the universe. You're making an illogical leap that one thing is somehow evidence of something else enitirely. And then you take that even further be claiming to know the actions of this other thing.

Stop with the childish humor, please.

[Snorri1234]

Yeah, you can't disprove those things either.

Exactly. Therefore disprovability should make absolutely no difference for deciding whether something exists or not. So stop fucking using it as some kind of AH-HAH! against atheists. It means nothing.

The fact that these things are "finite", or whatever bollocks-term you're using to reason yourself out of the fact your position is illogical, is irrelevant. They are things that cannot be proven to not exist. You have no trouble dismissing those things as ridiculous but when it's "G-O-D" suddenly you bend yourself in strange twists and turns to make your stupid beliefs seem "reasonable".

There's no evidence at all for the unicorn. There's evidence for a Creator- the whole universe and how it operates.

That's not evidence. The magical invisible unicorn is responsible for gravity. FACT!

Stating that you consider something as evidence does not make it evidence. You already decided that God was responsible for the universe and how it operates and then acted like it's self-evident. It isn't. There is no reason to assume God is behind how the universe works instead of simple laws of nature.

There is no reason to assume God is behind how the universe works instead of simple laws of nature. That's all willfull suspension of disbelief. You decide what you believe and then argue from that, instead of starting from nothing.

You can't prove there isn't an all-powerfull, all-knowing dude out there who doesn't give a f*ck about you and might even hate you. If you argue that that is ridiculous you're being intelectually dishonest.

It's true, not ridiculous. Judging by how my life goes sometimes I feel like God is out to get me...

So you're saying that the christian God does not exist?

The cosmological argument is also crap btw.

Well that settles that! I will accept this without reason as it came from the divine keyboard of snorri.

It's crap. You want me to point out why it's illogical?

[thegreekdog]

I see hoofprints in the ground all the time.. Could it be the prints of a unicorn?? Boom, evidence unicorns exist!..

The Universe is evidence.. of the universe. You're making an illogical leap that one thing is somehow evidence of something else enitirely. And then you take that even further be claiming to know the actions of this other thing.

So you're agnostic.

[pimpdave]

Bill O'Reilly Convinced Atheists Are Jealous of Christmas Instead of Other Holidays At This Time

This deserves to go in the Bias in the Media thread too, so this will get dual wielded.

[thegreekdog]

Bill O'Reilly Convinced Atheists Are Jealous of Christmas Instead of Other Holidays At This Time

This deserves to go in the Bias in the Media thread too, so this will get dual wielded.

I thought this thread was about Christmas'Hannukah/Kwanza jealousy?