Could someone please tell WBC that God is LOVE.

[jay_a2j]

I'm just amazed that these people (Westboro Baptist Church) haven't figured out that God is love. Even small children learn in Sunday School (John 3:16 "For God so loved the world.....") grasp it, why not them???????


Oh, in case you don't know what this rant is about.


WBC sing Lady Gaga's "Poker Face" (their own twisted version)

[radiojake]

I once went to a wedding of a Christian friend of mine. The minister spoke on and on about 'love' being a three way relationship between a man, a woman, and god..

I don't know god, and never will.. but that doesn't mean that I don't know what love is... it's bordering on offensive when Christians go on and on about god being 'love'

If he loved you so much, why is the world in such a shitty state. and don't say free will.. because that is the biggest cop out I have ever heard..

I'm drunk and posted in a religious topic for the first time in a long time..

good evening

[Woodruff]

I'm just amazed that these people (Westboro Baptist Church) haven't figured out that God is love. Even small children learn in Sunday School (John 3:16 "For God so loved the world.....") grasp it, why not them???????

They are absolutely one group that I JUST DON'T GET. I was raised as a Baptist, and still hold MANY of the tenets of Christian faith as important, even though I no longer consider myself a Christian. The pastor of this church I can easily write off as a power-hungry nutjob. But what I don't understand is why do so many people follow him? It's not that he's feeding them ANYTHING that resembles Christianity...it's just vileness and putridity. And they're clearly not embarrassed to be held up as an example of everything that can go wrong with Christianity (which amazes me). So I'm definitely with you on this one, Jay.

[Woodruff]

I once went to a wedding of a Christian friend of mine. The minister spoke on and on about 'love' being a three way relationship between a man, a woman, and god..

I don't know god, and never will.. but that doesn't mean that I don't know what love is... it's bordering on offensive when Christians go on and on about god being 'love'

If he loved you so much, why is the world in such a shitty state. and don't say free will.. because that is the biggest cop out I have ever heard..

I'm drunk and posted in a religious topic for the first time in a long time..

good evening

It shouldn't be offensive, because it quite honestly just doesn't apply to you. You've come to the conclusion that there is no God (or at least no Christian God, since I'm unsure of your specific position), whereas the minister's statements apply only to someone who does follow that there is a Christian God. I guess what I'm saying is that the minister isn't judging you, necessarily...he's talking about something that doesn't apply to you. That's my take on it, anyway.

As to free will...that's really NOT a cop out. It's a handy excuse, no argument...but it does make sense that God would want us to CHOOSE to follow him rather than being FORCED to, if he loves us.

[BigBallinStalin]

I've always thought love comes from within. It isn't something that can be lost, merely something that's always residing within you and occasionally is brought out by certain people or things. A very small amount of people have learned how to extend their love to everyone, which is an impressive feat.

Love does and doesn't have much to do with God, depending on what you want to believe.

[analbrigade]

can someone tell my ballsack that jay_a2j loves them?

it likes it when you whisper in it's ear real closely.

[Skittles!]

Pretty sure love is just a couple of chemicals mixing together in your head. =D

[muy_thaiguy]

I'm just amazed that these people (Westboro Baptist Church) haven't figured out that God is love. Even small children learn in Sunday School (John 3:16 "For God so loved the world.....") grasp it, why not them???????


Oh, in case you don't know what this rant is about.


WBC sing Lady Gaga's "Poker Face" (their own twisted version)

I'm still amazed they are even allowed to stay in Wyoming (they have church up in Casper or something), especially since they kind of helped the national media think that Wyoming is full of Southern KKK bigots during the Matthew Shepherd Case.

Dark days those were for Wyoming, and especially Laramie.

[pimpdave]

Whenever WBC shows up somewhere to protest, there are counter protests.

What this means is that in addition to the amusingly offensive WBC protest signs, there are uproariously hilarious counter protest signs. I can't find the photo right now, but I saw one group of counter protesters with a bunch of signs, like God is Love, and God Forgives, and then, in the back ground, a large one that read: BALLS IN THE ASS.

That still brings a smile to my face, even though I'm not entirely sure what it's supposed to mean.

[Timminz]

what I don't understand is why do so many people follow him?

From what I understand, there are not actually all that many people following him. It's a very small, very vocal group, made up almost entirely of his extended family.

[Snorri1234]

It shouldn't be offensive, because it quite honestly just doesn't apply to you. You've come to the conclusion that there is no God (or at least no Christian God, since I'm unsure of your specific position), whereas the minister's statements apply only to someone who does follow that there is a Christian God. I guess what I'm saying is that the minister isn't judging you, necessarily...he's talking about something that doesn't apply to you. That's my take on it, anyway.

I think that jake's point is that if you actually do take God's existence as true, that doesn't make him a benevolent one.

[Woodruff]

what I don't understand is why do so many people follow him?

From what I understand, there are not actually all that many people following him. It's a very small, very vocal group, made up almost entirely of his extended family.

Ah! That does make more sense...thanks.

It shouldn't be offensive, because it quite honestly just doesn't apply to you. You've come to the conclusion that there is no God (or at least no Christian God, since I'm unsure of your specific position), whereas the minister's statements apply only to someone who does follow that there is a Christian God. I guess what I'm saying is that the minister isn't judging you, necessarily...he's talking about something that doesn't apply to you. That's my take on it, anyway.

I think that jake's point is that if you actually do take God's existence as true, that doesn't make him a benevolent one.

Certainly, you know I agree with that, from our prior discussions.

[2dimes]

God willing I'll tell them, people don't listen though. Love is an act you decide to take part in.

Like everyone else, I have mistook lust for love. I will probably use the word love again to discribe those emotions sometime in the future.

The ancient greeks had many names for love because they believed there were several different types. I agree with the concept but I personally only recognise "agape" as being strong enough to use the word "love" as it's discription. It basically translates to "parental love" in english. If you have not been a parent you might have difficulty performing acts of agape. It is typically not normal for people to act that way towards other humans that are not their parents or children.

A very small amount of people have learned how to extend their love to everyone, which is an impressive feat.

I agree with that however, I know that nearly everyone has at some point extended their love to someone. Usually their mom, but some have never had a mom and that makes it difficult to learn to love, unless they have been fostered or adopted by a good person, couple or group.

Though I believe that agape is the only true form of love, I also believe it can be combined with any of the emotions I might discribe as love to save trying to explain the feelings in proper detail and context.

Pretty sure love is just a couple of chemicals mixing together in your head. =D

That's the one, I'm well farmiliar with it. Sometimes it comes from that really nice to look at stripper or photograph. Sometimes it comes from someone treating me with kindness, I may even interpret the kindness as agape. Sometimes it comes from someone treating me with agape, though usually when someone does love me I won't notice, or I'll notice sometime after, possibly years later. Those chemical reactions will definatly be stirred by me loving someone else causing some level of euphoria to myself. I have experienced that in the past when doing acts of selfless kindness. I've mostly quit that, I'm usually much too busy trolling my sliver of the intenet for pretty much anything else.

Here's the problem with the Westboro people. They think what they are doing is acts of "tough love" if they show you their twisted concepts hopfully you'll be scared into the same submission to their perverted concepts of God. They think of God instead of acting in agape to experience him. Kind of like this.

if you actually do take God's existence as true, that doesn't make him a benevolent one.

And to be fair that's reasonably logical.

It's not that tough love can't be helpfull, the problm is tough love must be coupled to selfless charitable love and that takes not olny sacrifice but practice and work. That's why it's usually left to a parent and even then it often backfires. Giving creadance to the modern concept of "It's not their fault someone was mean to them." While this may have some truth to it. I think Jeff Dalmer made his own decision to eat, freeze and try to make zombies out of the kids he was having sex with. It was not involuntary because his Dad was strickt and over bearing.

I guarantee if you take a bible and try to show a westboro member where Jesus talks about "God is love." "To follow me you must show others perfect love." or anything else that shows they are not seeking God's true ways.
They will firstly be frightened, angered and defensive. (that's important I'll 'splain in a moment)
Second they will have answers memorized for you. I suspect most of them will have certain parts of the bible highlighted to help them find the parts where they claim it tells them to act this way.

Two things about their answers stick out to me. First it will be things taught to them, rarely good and allways a cult. If you can read you don't need anyone else to help you with the bible. It's open for interpretation for you to experience the love of God for yourself. Second they will need to jump all over the bible to find things to build their case.

You can tell if what you're experiencing is my biblical standard of love or not quite easily. Read the first letter of John 4:18, which is the eighteenth verse of the fourth chapter. I believe it's a verse that cannot be confused or taken out of context on it's own, as well it is pretty good in read in the context of the rest of the chapter and in my opinion the entire bible. Let me know what you think.

[luns101]

If he loved you so much, why is the world in such a shitty state. and don't say free will.. because that is the biggest cop out I have ever heard.

This was absolutely one of the biggest issues I had to face before becoming a Christian. While I don't agree with your conclusion...it is understandable that many people feel this way.

[2dimes]

Well I listened. I couldn't get through the whole song but maybe I need to listen enough for it to grow on me. I'll let you know in a decade or two.

They should cover some Le Tigre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-IPNQwGAGU

That there's some good gay tunes.

[radiojake]

I once went to a wedding of a Christian friend of mine. The minister spoke on and on about 'love' being a three way relationship between a man, a woman, and god..

I don't know god, and never will.. but that doesn't mean that I don't know what love is... it's bordering on offensive when Christians go on and on about god being 'love'

If he loved you so much, why is the world in such a shitty state. and don't say free will.. because that is the biggest cop out I have ever heard..

I'm drunk and posted in a religious topic for the first time in a long time..

good evening

It shouldn't be offensive, because it quite honestly just doesn't apply to you. You've come to the conclusion that there is no God (or at least no Christian God, since I'm unsure of your specific position), whereas the minister's statements apply only to someone who does follow that there is a Christian God. I guess what I'm saying is that the minister isn't judging you, necessarily...he's talking about something that doesn't apply to you. That's my take on it, anyway.

On re-reading my post in the morning it seems I didn't transcribe what the minister said properly. I definately remember him saying that without god,we are incapable of love , because love is a relationship between a man, woman, and god. That was what pissed me off about that particular sermon. If it wasn't for the fact that it was my friends wedding, I might have said something. To assume one is incapable of love because they don't know god is bordering on arrogant, that's what I think anyway.

Otherwise, I've been trying (and somewhat succesfully) to ignore the church for the most part and not let it piss me off as much as it used to. I just think the heading of this thread reminded me of the wedding sermon and after a few home brews my typing fingers were looser than they have been....

[Frigidus]

I once went to a wedding of a Christian friend of mine. The minister spoke on and on about 'love' being a three way relationship between a man, a woman, and god..

I don't know god, and never will.. but that doesn't mean that I don't know what love is... it's bordering on offensive when Christians go on and on about god being 'love'

If he loved you so much, why is the world in such a shitty state. and don't say free will.. because that is the biggest cop out I have ever heard..

I'm drunk and posted in a religious topic for the first time in a long time..

good evening

It shouldn't be offensive, because it quite honestly just doesn't apply to you. You've come to the conclusion that there is no God (or at least no Christian God, since I'm unsure of your specific position), whereas the minister's statements apply only to someone who does follow that there is a Christian God. I guess what I'm saying is that the minister isn't judging you, necessarily...he's talking about something that doesn't apply to you. That's my take on it, anyway.

On re-reading my post in the morning it seems I didn't transcribe what the minister said properly. I definately remember him saying that without god,we are incapable of love , because love is a relationship between a man, woman, and god. That was what pissed me off about that particular sermon. If it wasn't for the fact that it was my friends wedding, I might have said something. To assume one is incapable of love because they don't know god is bordering on arrogant, that's what I think anyway.

Otherwise, I've been trying (and somewhat succesfully) to ignore the church for the most part and not let it piss me off as much as it used to. I just think the heading of this thread reminded me of the wedding sermon and after a few home brews my typing fingers were looser than they have been....

It always concerns me that some people are genuinely confused that I'm not an emotionless monster with no moral compass because I'm an athiest. Even some of my closest friends, who are only somewhat religious, had to clarify whether I didn't believe in god(s) or hated them.

[SultanOfSurreal]

I once went to a wedding of a Christian friend of mine. The minister spoke on and on about 'love' being a three way relationship between a man, a woman, and god..

hot

[hecter]

As to free will...that's really NOT a cop out. It's a handy excuse, no argument...but it does make sense that God would want us to CHOOSE to follow him rather than being FORCED to, if he loves us.

If he's so loving, why would he care at all? It's not like he's exactly given us proof, written it on the moon in big shiny letters or something. If I'm a good person and there is a heaven and God really does love us and doesn't just care about having his ego stroked, why should it matter if I'm Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc?

[jay_a2j]

As to free will...that's really NOT a cop out. It's a handy excuse, no argument...but it does make sense that God would want us to CHOOSE to follow him rather than being FORCED to, if he loves us.

If he's so loving, why would he care at all? It's not like he's exactly given us proof, written it on the moon in big shiny letters or something. If I'm a good person and there is a heaven and God really does love us and doesn't just care about having his ego stroked, why should it matter if I'm Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc?

He cares because He loves us. Imagine your child not loving you because they want to but rather because they are made to. That's not love is it? He has given us "proof". He wrote a bestselling book.


"No one is good, no not one." We are all born in sin. We can not have a relationship with God in that state, the sin must be removed. This is why Jesus came and died for the sins of the world, that if we accept this gift asking Him to forgive us and turning from sin, He promises to wash it away. Which is why the only way to God is through Jesus. "No one comes to the Father but through me(Jesus)."

[AAFitz]

As to free will...that's really NOT a cop out. It's a handy excuse, no argument...but it does make sense that God would want us to CHOOSE to follow him rather than being FORCED to, if he loves us.

If he's so loving, why would he care at all? It's not like he's exactly given us proof, written it on the moon in big shiny letters or something. If I'm a good person and there is a heaven and God really does love us and doesn't just care about having his ego stroked, why should it matter if I'm Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc?

He cares because He loves us. Imagine your child not loving you because they want to but rather because they are made to. That's not love is it? He has given us "proof". He wrote a bestselling book.


"No one is good, no not one." We are all born in sin. We can not have a relationship with God in that state, the sin must be removed. This is why Jesus came and died for the sins of the world, that if we accept this gift asking Him to forgive us and turning from sin, He promises to wash it away. Which is why the only way to God is through Jesus. "No one comes to the Father but through me(Jesus)."

Well, that is your version of it of course. Millions of others believe different versions, including the group that wrote they very bible you cherish. Whats great however, is to see you say He is love, because that is so easy to miss while condemning others for what they believe and how they act, not limited to, but including religion, sexual preference, eating habits, and even race to some degree.

Once you look past your bestseller, and think for yourself, and really truly realize the nature of and what a true God of Good would actually require and need, you will realize once and for all He really must be a God of Love. Until then, Im sure the comfortable confines of your narrow definition will make it easier to function, but its still nice to see baby steps.

[Woodruff]

God willing I'll tell them, people don't listen though. Love is an act you decide to take part in.

This is precisely correct. Love is a CHOICE. Period. 100%. Anyone who does not believe that love is a CHOICE is a fool.

[Woodruff]

I once went to a wedding of a Christian friend of mine. The minister spoke on and on about 'love' being a three way relationship between a man, a woman, and god..

I don't know god, and never will.. but that doesn't mean that I don't know what love is... it's bordering on offensive when Christians go on and on about god being 'love'

If he loved you so much, why is the world in such a shitty state. and don't say free will.. because that is the biggest cop out I have ever heard..

I'm drunk and posted in a religious topic for the first time in a long time..

good evening

It shouldn't be offensive, because it quite honestly just doesn't apply to you. You've come to the conclusion that there is no God (or at least no Christian God, since I'm unsure of your specific position), whereas the minister's statements apply only to someone who does follow that there is a Christian God. I guess what I'm saying is that the minister isn't judging you, necessarily...he's talking about something that doesn't apply to you. That's my take on it, anyway.

On re-reading my post in the morning it seems I didn't transcribe what the minister said properly. I definately remember him saying that without god,we are incapable of love , because love is a relationship between a man, woman, and god.

Ah yes...that is definitely a very different idea...and one that doesn't even make basic sense. I'm with you now.

As to free will...that's really NOT a cop out. It's a handy excuse, no argument...but it does make sense that God would want us to CHOOSE to follow him rather than being FORCED to, if he loves us.

If he's so loving, why would he care at all? It's not like he's exactly given us proof, written it on the moon in big shiny letters or something. If I'm a good person and there is a heaven and God really does love us and doesn't just care about having his ego stroked, why should it matter if I'm Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc?

You do realize that you're asking an Agnostic this question, right? <grin>

MY answer is that it doesn't matter. That's also the answer I believe God to hold. I don't actually think God (if he exists) gives a shit if you're Christian or Muslim or whatever, as long as you believe in HIM and act in a manner that he has asked you to. I actually believe God (if he exists) thinks it's dumb that all of these different sects have been established.

This also happens to be what my wife (who is a "generic Christian" (she doesn't care for organized religion, so does not attend church)) believes.

[Woodruff]

As to free will...that's really NOT a cop out. It's a handy excuse, no argument...but it does make sense that God would want us to CHOOSE to follow him rather than being FORCED to, if he loves us.

If he's so loving, why would he care at all? It's not like he's exactly given us proof, written it on the moon in big shiny letters or something. If I'm a good person and there is a heaven and God really does love us and doesn't just care about having his ego stroked, why should it matter if I'm Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc?

He cares because He loves us. Imagine your child not loving you because they want to but rather because they are made to. That's not love is it? He has given us "proof". He wrote a bestselling book.

A lot of people have written bestselling books of fiction. That's no proof at all. In fact, that's not even evidence, never mind proof.

[2dimes]

I love you man. Clapper?

Uh... that kind of changes what I had wrote, why and yeah.