colorado springs: fucked

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SultanOfSurreal
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colorado springs: fucked

Post by SultanOfSurreal »

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473
COLORADO SPRINGS — This tax-averse city is about to learn what it looks and feels like when budget cuts slash services most Americans consider part of the urban fabric.

More than a third of the streetlights in Colorado Springs will go dark Monday. The police helicopters are for sale on the Internet. The city is dumping firefighting jobs, a vice team, burglary investigators, beat cops — dozens of police and fire positions will go unfilled.

The parks department removed trash cans last week, replacing them with signs urging users to pack out their own litter.

Neighbors are encouraged to bring their own lawn mowers to local green spaces, because parks workers will mow them only once every two weeks. If that.

Water cutbacks mean most parks will be dead, brown turf by July; the flower and fertilizer budget is zero.

City recreation centers, indoor and outdoor pools, and a handful of museums will close for good March 31 unless they find private funding to stay open. Buses no longer run on evenings and weekends. The city won't pay for any street paving, relying instead on a regional authority that can meet only about 10 percent of the need.

"I guess we're going to find out what the tolerance level is for people," said businessman Chuck Fowler, who is helping lead a private task force brainstorming for city budget fixes. "It's a new day."

Some residents are less sanguine, arguing that cuts to bus services, drug enforcement and treatment and job development are attacks on basic needs for the working class.

"How are people supposed to live? We're not a 'Mayberry R.F.D.' anymore," said Addy Hansen, a criminal justice student who has spoken out about safety cuts. "We're the second-largest city, and growing, in Colorado. We're in trouble. We're in big trouble."
Mayor flinches at revenue

Colorado Springs' woes are more visceral versions of local and state cuts across the nation. Denver has cut salaries and human services workers, trimmed library hours and raised fees; Aurora shuttered four libraries; the state budget has seen round after round of wholesale cuts in education and personnel.

The deep recession bit into Colorado Springs sales-tax collections, while pension and health care costs for city employees continued to soar. Sales-tax updates have become a regular exercise in flinching for Mayor Lionel Rivera.

"Every month I open it up, and I look for a plus in front of the numbers instead of a minus," he said. The 2010 sales-tax forecast is almost $22 million less than 2007.

Voters in November said an emphatic no to a tripling of property tax that would have restored $27.6 million to the city's $212 million general fund budget. Fowler and many other residents say voters don't trust city government to wisely spend a general tax increase and don't believe the current cuts are the only way to balance a budget.
Dead grass, dark streets

But the 2010 spending choices are complete, and local residents and businesses are preparing for a slew of changes:

• The steep parks and recreation cuts mean a radical reshifting of resources from more than 100 neighborhood parks to a few popular regional parks. The city cut watering drastically in 2009 but "got lucky" with weekly summer rains, said parks maintenance manager Kurt Schroeder.

With even more watering cuts, "if we repeat the weather of 2008, we're at risk of losing every bit of turf we have in our neighborhood parks," Schroeder said. Six city greenhouses are shut down. The city spent $19.6 million on parks in 2007; this year it will spend $3.1 million.

"If a playground burns down, I can't replace it," Schroeder said. Park fans' only hope is the possibility of a new ballot tax pledged to recreation spending that might win over skeptical voters.

• Community center and pool closures have parents worried about day-care costs, idle teenagers and shut-in grandparents with nowhere to go.

Hillside Community Center, on the southeastern edge of downtown Colorado Springs in a low- to moderate-income neighborhood, is scrambling to find private partners to stay open. Moms such as Kirsten Williams doubt they can replace Hillside's dedicated staff and preschool rates of $200 for six-week sessions.

"It's affordable, the program is phenomenal, and the staff all grew up here," Williams said. "You can't re-create that kind of magic."

Shutting down youth services is shortsighted, she argues. "You're going to pay now, or you're going to pay later. There's trouble if kids don't have things to do."

• Though officials and citizens put public safety above all in the budget, police and firefighting still lost more than $5.5 million this year. Positions that will go empty range from a domestic violence specialist to a deputy chief to juvenile offender officers. Fire squad 108 loses three firefighters. Putting the helicopters up for sale and eliminating the officers and a mechanic banked $877,000.

• Tourism outlets have attacked budget choices that hit them precisely as they're struggling to draw choosy visitors to the West.

The city cut three economic-development positions, land-use planning, long-range strategic planning and zoning and neighborhood inspectors. It also repossessed a large portion of a dedicated lodgers and car rental tax rather than transfer it to the visitors' bureau.

"It's going to hurt. If they don't at least market Colorado Springs, it doesn't get the people here," said Nancy Stovall, owner of Pine Creek Art Gallery on the tourism strip of Old Colorado City. Other states, such as New Mexico and Wyoming, will continue to market, and tourism losses will further erode city sales-tax revenue, merchants say.

• Turning out the lights, literally, is one of the high-profile trims aggravating some residents. The city-run Colorado Springs Utilities will shut down 8,000 to 10,000 of more than 24,000 streetlights, to save $1.2 million in energy and bulb replacement.

Hansen, the criminal-justice student, grows especially exasperated when recalling a scary incident a few years ago as she waited for a bus. She said a carload of drunken men approached her until the police helicopter that had been trailing them turned a spotlight on the men and chased them off. Now the helicopter is gone, and the streetlight she was waiting under is threatened as well.

"I don't know a person in this city who doesn't think that's just the stupidest thing on the planet," Hansen said. "Colorado Springs leaders put patches on problems and hope that will handle it."
Employee pay criticized

Community business leaders have jumped into the budget debate, some questioning city spending on what they see as "Ferrari"-level benefits for employees and high salaries in middle management. Broadmoor luxury resort chief executive Steve Bartolin wrote an open letter asking why the city spends $89,000 per employee, when his enterprise has a similar number of workers and spends only $24,000 on each.

Businessman Fowler, saying he is now speaking for the task force Bartolin supports, said the city should study the Broadmoor's use of seasonal employees and realistic manager pay.

"I don't know if people are convinced that the water needed to be turned off in the parks, or the trash cans need to come out, or the lights need to go off," Fowler said. "I think we'll have a big turnover in City Council a year from April. Until we get a new group in there, people aren't really going to believe much of anything."

Mayor and council are part-time jobs in Colorado Springs, points out Mayor Rivera, that pay $6,250 a year ($250 extra for the mayor). "We have jobs, we pay taxes, we use services, just like they do," Rivera said, acknowledging there is a "level of distrust" of public officials at many levels.

Rivera said he welcomes help from Bartolin, the private task force and any other source volunteering to rethink government. He is slightly encouraged, for now, that his monthly sales-tax reports are just ahead of budget predictions.

Officials across the city know their phone lines will light up as parks go brown, trash gathers in the weeds, and streets and alleys go dark.

"There's a lot of anger, a lot of frustration about how governments spend their money," Rivera said. "It's not unique to Colorado Springs."
i think my favorite part is that colorado springs was offered a chance to fix this by raising taxes and didn't, because they didn't trust the spooooooooky government to turn the lights back on with the extra money, i mean seriously what the f*ck

on the bright side, now we all get to see what a teabagger dystopia might look like
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Phatscotty
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by Phatscotty »

what the hell do the taxes they have already been paying go for???

I know I have sat in traffic around my local gov't center as they built a skate park with tax payer money, and then still charge the skaters to use it. I have also waited for 3 days in a row, while they planted and watered bulbs all the way up the street about 4 city blocks. Of course, there were 8 guys doing the work. And with all the seat belt tickets they are giving out now, if they want to raise my taxes, I will tell them I'd rather burn the money then watch them waste through it like I didn't earn it with my sweat and hard work.

I also know, those guys that they have to lay off that clean up the garbage? well, a normal day for my friend, who gets 14.50/hour, is to go into work anytime between 8 and 10, takes the city truck to go and pick up 13 orange cones, which he does in about 12 minutes. then he texts me nasty nude pictures all day, even during his hour long paid lunch.
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rockfist
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by rockfist »

hahaha so the tax dollars are actually helping support porn. That is so the government.

Remind me to tell you about my university "job" I had working for the state of Wisconsin...my boss actually told me not to work as fast as I was because I was pissing off the non-student union employees, but there is a lot more to it.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by muy_thaiguy »

Wow. An article actually made me feel sorry for the Sheep at CSU.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by KoolBak »

Excellent writing style. I felt like Judgement Day was upon me......

Has ANYONE ever heard of a playground "burning down"? The fact that they cant replace one if that happens is the saddest part of all ;o(

Poor poor Colorado..........
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by jbrettlip »

Tripling property taxes is actually a really bad way to grow your city. If you notice, their 2 major problems: 1) the cost of employee pensions and health care 2) drop in sales tax revenue. They didn't LOWER taxes which would have allowed people to claim some relation to the "teabag" movement. They chose not to raise them on themselves, so the people who worked in government for 20 years, wouldn't get their money. I would have done the same thing. Imagine how sales tax revenue would have been effected if your property tax tripled. I would have had $10,000 less if that happened to me.
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rockfist
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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The problem is that governments base their budgets on an ever growing economy. When times are good they never save for when times are bad because they wrongly believe that the good times will last forever. When there is a down turn and according to Keynesian economics (which I don't necessarily buy into) they should increase spending they are already at a large deficit since they have no fiscal discipline in the good times.

The answer is to spend less in the good times, but most people are too fucking thick or self interested to understand this.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by HapSmo19 »

I'm pretty sure they should use remaining funds to start a think-tank and get to the bottom of this.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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shit this is bad... they have a few problems, the first being the money spent on city employees. In the past the city should have created a more sustainable economy like rockfist pointed out. but at a certain point, if people want law enforcement, street lights, and parks, they are going to have to pay for it. I dislike taxes as much as the next guy, but luxuries such as those do come at a cost. Also, to throw polotics into this, those are all social programs. Social programs get their funding from the people. If the people don't want to pay for them, they can do without.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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rockfist wrote:The problem is that governments base their budgets on an ever growing economy. When times are good they never save for when times are bad because they wrongly believe that the good times will last forever. When there is a down turn and according to Keynesian economics (which I don't necessarily buy into) they should increase spending they are already at a large deficit since they have no fiscal discipline in the good times.

The answer is to spend less in the good times, but most people are too fucking thick or self interested to understand this.
Ironically enough, I agree with the first part. Governments do need to save for slow times, just like us.

However, I would argue two other points. Simply saving for the bad times is not good enough. We need long term sustainability. Too often those in power are those who have the most vested in making quick money ...and that is why we get what we get. When you depend upon business leaders and movers to make decisions, (or simply allow them to do so), then you get what will serve them. A five year projection is "long term" for most businesses. With that mind frame, its no wonder that things boom for a while and then ... fail, miserably.


The other point is related. Governments are merely groups of people elected by the population. When people step out and actually think about options instead of just fastening onto the nearest "catch phrase" or, say voting for a mayor because he is opposed to abortion, never mind that he also wants to use city funds to build a brand new sports facility.... then we get what we elect. You need to blame your neighbors, not this supposedly remote "government". AND, more than simply blaming, you need to take it upon yourself to actually educate your neighbors.

BUT, given your voice in other topics, I would say you need to go a long ways in educating yourself, first.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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frogger4 wrote:shit this is bad... they have a few problems, the first being the money spent on city employees. In the past the city should have created a more sustainable economy like rockfist pointed out. but at a certain point, if people want law enforcement, street lights, and parks, they are going to have to pay for it. I dislike taxes as much as the next guy, but luxuries such as those do come at a cost. Also, to throw polotics into this, those are all social programs. Social programs get their funding from the people. If the people don't want to pay for them, they can do without.
As a side point (perhaps???), note that Colorado Springs is home to Focus on the Family, and a large group of "promise keepers" type folks.... no doubt much of the Family (the Washington Christian group backing the prayer breakfast, not the mob).

Cooincidence? maybe??
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SultanOfSurreal
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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i think this is as good a time as any to point out that colorado springs pays ridiculously low property taxes. if they had tripled them, they'd still be paying one of the lowest rates for any community in the country.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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SultanOfSurreal wrote:i think this is as good a time as any to point out that colorado springs pays ridiculously low property taxes. if they had tripled them, they'd still be paying one of the lowest rates for any community in the country.
how many people would decide to move over to the next city or county, or perhaps just got nudged (tripled???!!!!???) to move closer to work....?

also, if these property taxes, even after being tripled, would remain some of the lowest in the country....(BS) well then if they were that low, there should have been NO shortage of people trying to move there, trying to bring their tax dollars there, begging to spend their money in that community.....and if the city STILL fucked that up by overspending, then more reason to to give them more money, nonetheless triple their budget. This is the worst time to be tripling budgets.....

you just have it backwards. this formula has failed too many times for people to try it again.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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Phatscotty wrote:
SultanOfSurreal wrote:i think this is as good a time as any to point out that colorado springs pays ridiculously low property taxes. if they had tripled them, they'd still be paying one of the lowest rates for any community in the country.
how many people would decide to move over to the next city or county, or perhaps just got nudged (tripled???!!!!???) to move closer to work....?

also, if these property taxes, even after being tripled, would remain some of the lowest in the country....(BS) well then if they were that low, there should have been NO shortage of people trying to move there, trying to bring their tax dollars there, begging to spend their money in that community.....and if the city STILL fucked that up by overspending, then more reason to to give them more money, nonetheless triple their budget. This is the worst time to be tripling budgets.....

you just have it backwards. this formula has failed too many times for people to try it again.
you've been here, what, half a year? and yet you've completely failed to evolve your schtick beyond trying to find the most outrageous way of claiming that up is down. you really need to find a new day job. scratch that -- you really need to find a job.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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Maybe if the fucking retards in congress would deal with the bigger issue of jobs and the economy instead of beating the drum for a health care bill most of the country doesn't want there would be jobs...
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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rockfist wrote:Maybe if the fucking retards in congress would deal with the bigger issue of jobs and the economy instead of beating the drum for a health care bill most of the country doesn't want there would be jobs...
maybe if the leprechauns under my bed would stop terrorizing me in my sleep, they could get back to minting gold coins and making shoes to get the economy back on track, but that has nothing to do with dadt either
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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SultanOfSurreal wrote:
rockfist wrote:Maybe if the fucking retards in congress would deal with the bigger issue of jobs and the economy instead of beating the drum for a health care bill most of the country doesn't want there would be jobs...
maybe if the leprechauns under my bed would stop terrorizing me in my sleep, they could get back to minting gold coins and making shoes to get the economy back on track, but that has nothing to do with dadt either
And haven't you guys been arguing that government inaction is best for an economy? Isn't them focusing on other things good in your book?
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by rockfist »

The health care bill is not exactly inaction in regards to the economy, evidently its viewed by most of the country as the wrong action.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by Phatscotty »

SultanOfSurreal wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
SultanOfSurreal wrote:i think this is as good a time as any to point out that colorado springs pays ridiculously low property taxes. if they had tripled them, they'd still be paying one of the lowest rates for any community in the country.
how many people would decide to move over to the next city or county, or perhaps just got nudged (tripled???!!!!???) to move closer to work....?

also, if these property taxes, even after being tripled, would remain some of the lowest in the country....(BS) well then if they were that low, there should have been NO shortage of people trying to move there, trying to bring their tax dollars there, begging to spend their money in that community.....and if the city STILL fucked that up by overspending, then more reason to to give them more money, nonetheless triple their budget. This is the worst time to be tripling budgets.....

you just have it backwards. this formula has failed too many times for people to try it again.
you've been here, what, half a year? and yet you've completely failed to evolve your schtick beyond trying to find the most outrageous way of claiming that up is down. you really need to find a new day job. scratch that -- you really need to find a job.
most outrageous? you really gonna take a stand against my statement that
when you raise taxes, people move to places with lower taxes

outrageous huh? or...perhaps....maybe you are dodging the extreme simplicity that up is up. I asked you a legitimate question. You have been on this earth for years, and have failed to evolve into "conversing". Nice tactic of attack, almost animalistic... but nice. try evolving to use that brain in your skull and actually talk about the issue. you overlooked a very simple reality of freedom. people can choose where they want to live.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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Phatscotty wrote:
SultanofSurreal wrote:you've been here, what, half a year? and yet you've completely failed to evolve your schtick beyond trying to find the most outrageous way of claiming that up is down. you really need to find a new day job. scratch that -- you really need to find a job.
most outrageous? you really gonna take a stand against my statement that
when you raise taxes, people move to places with lower taxes
outrageous huh? or...perhaps....maybe you are dodging the extreme simplicity that up is up. I asked you a legitimate question. You have been on this earth for years, and have failed to evolve into "conversing". Nice tactic of attack, almost animalistic... but nice. try evolving to use that brain in your skull and actually talk about the issue.
There aren't that many people that would/could afford to uproot themselves over something as trivial as a tax raise (tripling a very small property tax only makes it approach an average property tax). Hell, most families will want to go somewhere with a good education system. So, no, I don't see an exodus from Colorado Springs over a tax hike.
Last edited by Frigidus on Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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SultanOfSurreal wrote:
rockfist wrote:Maybe if the fucking retards in congress would deal with the bigger issue of jobs and the economy instead of beating the drum for a health care bill most of the country doesn't want there would be jobs...
maybe if the leprechauns under my bed would stop terrorizing me in my sleep, they could get back to minting gold coins and making shoes to get the economy back on track, but that has nothing to do with dadt either
Yep, and dadt has nothing to do with the economy which is the number one issue to a large plurality of the people. The Democrat party controls congress and this is what they are spending the time on...smooth, really smooth...

Oh yeah and check out the toolbox you fools nominated for Lt. Governor in IL...Scott Lee Cohen...just Google him...it takes a rare breed of knuckle dragger to get national attention as a Lt. Governor nominee. Smooth, really smooth.

Your two years of power are fast approaching the end, but its not nearly fast enough for me or most of this country.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

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Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
SultanofSurreal wrote:you've been here, what, half a year? and yet you've completely failed to evolve your schtick beyond trying to find the most outrageous way of claiming that up is down. you really need to find a new day job. scratch that -- you really need to find a job.
most outrageous? you really gonna take a stand against my statement that
when you raise taxes, people move to places with lower taxes
outrageous huh? or...perhaps....maybe you are dodging the extreme simplicity that up is up. I asked you a legitimate question. You have been on this earth for years, and have failed to evolve into "conversing". Nice tactic of attack, almost animalistic... but nice. try evolving to use that brain in your skull and actually talk about the issue.
There aren't that many people that would/could afford to uproot themselves over something as trivial as a tax raise (tripling a very small property tax only makes it approach an average property tax). Hell, most families will want to go somewhere with a good education system. So, no, I don't see an exodus from Colorado Springs over a tax hike.
we are talking about a TRIPLING of taxes.....I would not choose to use the word trivial. And nobody suggested am "exodus" until you. In fact no person has suggested any certain number. I only speculated that their would be some. for your response, I will have to quote Sultan...
on Frigidus's comment
you've completely failed to evolve your schtick beyond trying to find the most outrageous way of claiming that up is down.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by Snorri1234 »

Phatscotty wrote: we are talking about a TRIPLING of taxes
of a very low tax.

That's trivial. If you have to pay 300 dollars instead of 100 dollars a year it is not a large amount even if it's a tripling of that tax.
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by Woodruff »

Phatscotty wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:most outrageous? you really gonna take a stand against my statement that
when you raise taxes, people move to places with lower taxes
While I understand your point, don't you think that having excruciatingly limited police and fire departments as well as having a third of your streetlights out might not ALSO cause people to move to other locales?
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Re: colorado springs: fucked

Post by Phatscotty »

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:most outrageous? you really gonna take a stand against my statement that
when you raise taxes, people move to places with lower taxes
While I understand your point, don't you think that having excruciatingly limited police and fire departments as well as having a third of your streetlights out might not ALSO cause people to move to other locales?
Ya know, that is about the oldest, easiest.......oh well what the hell OK.

IF you are saying that the police force is "excrucuatingly" limited, and the fire dept as well as street lights.....THEN we must assume, every single thing that the gov't spends it's money on of lesser importance (everything) has been considered and addressed......

Is this the case??? (everything else has been looked at)
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