Logic dictates that there is a God!

[RenegadePaddy]

Probably going to reget asking, but why do you believe that evolution doesnt happen? Honestly now.

[WL_southerner]

god was created by man, not god created man
or there a big error in the bible when god made man ummm so how come there was 2 types of man at the end of the last ice age

[jay_a2j]

Probably going to reget asking, but why do you believe that evolution doesnt happen? Honestly now.

We don't see it occurring.

Speech is a learned behavior.

Each animal has a set number of chromosomes. (Can't buy more or sell the ones you have)

Evolution is not Adaptation (which occurs)

There is absolutely no fossil evidence of evolution.

[jay_a2j]

god was created by man, not god created man
or there a big error in the bible when god made man ummm so how come there was 2 types of man at the end of the last ice age

Tower of Babel...... God scattered the inhabitants of the Earth, giving them different tongues and races.

[neoni]

Probably going to reget asking, but why do you believe that evolution doesnt happen? Honestly now.

We don't see it occurring.

Speech is a learned behavior.

Each animal has a set number of chromosomes. (Can't buy more or sell the ones you have)

Evolution is not Adaptation (which occurs)

There is absolutely no fossil evidence of evolution.

how you can go from saying this to talking about the tower of babel is completely beyond me. why do you need solid evidence for one thing, and nothing more than an old book for another, far less likely and far more ridiculous, thing?

[jay_a2j]

Probably going to reget asking, but why do you believe that evolution doesnt happen? Honestly now.

We don't see it occurring.

Speech is a learned behavior.

Each animal has a set number of chromosomes. (Can't buy more or sell the ones you have)

Evolution is not Adaptation (which occurs)

There is absolutely no fossil evidence of evolution.

how you can go from saying this to talking about the tower of babel is completely beyond me. why do you need solid evidence for one thing, and nothing more than an old book for another, far less likely and far more ridiculous, thing?

Because the Bible has the answers. Where science falls shot in establishing evolution as "fact" (explaining all the different races and tongues) the Bible tells us where they came from.

[RenegadePaddy]

Right, ok, I'm purely trying to understand where you're coming from here, not get in yet another slanging match - I'm a Catholic who sees evolution as Gods method rather than a contradiction (yet again I mention the similarities between the order of creation in both the bible and stellar physics, and ask you how you would go about explaining atoms, nucleii and other advanced concepts to a comparativly crude and supersticious culture, who dont have the means to see the physical proofs of cells, etc)

We don't see it occurring.

Well, it does take millions of years - thats no better than knocking those who reject God because they can't see him with their own two eyes!

Speech is a learned behavior

Don't get where this one's coming from. Please explain further.

If you mean the fact we can communicate intelligently (well, language then), then I'd have to point out that other creatures communicate and work in packs (primative societies) - if youve got a dog, it can tell the difference between a low warnig growl and a yelp of pain, it'll show body language in wagging its tail when happy and dropping its ears when sad.

Each animal has a set number of chromosomes. (Can't buy more or sell the ones you have)

The number of chromosomes isn't how the theory runs - its mutations within the chromosomes. Varience in height, for example, is about a mutation in a chromosome - there are no discrete height sets, its a continuous variable. So people with tall genes will have slightly different chromosomes to those with short genes. If more tall people than short survive, more tall genes will be passed on than short. The trends then follow to thei logical conclusion. (There's an interesting aside about a fish species - wish could remember which - that has two primary sub-groups, one who've developed into large aggressive fish, who compete directly for mates, and another of smaller faster types who effectively make "raids" for mating)

And mutation can alter the number of chromosomes - Downs Syndrome is a perfect example of a "bad" mutation, but what if the symptoms gave a suffeer an advantage instead (eg increased lifespan)?

Evolution is not Adaptation (which occurs)

Quite right - adaption is a monkey learning to use a stick to get at ants to eat, evolution is the brain being abnormally large enough to allow such a concept to be formed. When such a mutation provides a competative advantage (greater food source in this example), its more likely for the mutant subject to mate and pass onthe characteristic.

There is absolutely no fossil evidence of evolution

Actually, there is

[RenegadePaddy]

Because the Bible has the answers. Where science falls shot in establishing evolution as "fact" (explaining all the different races and tongues) the Bible tells us where they came from.

Got to jump in here and say it does.

Language

[neoni]

it's quite simple to explain different races and languages, once you stop living in your fairy tale existence where the world is only six thousand years old.
languages evolve - fact. the english language has changed completely over the last five hundred years, and continues to do so. if you think that since the tower of babel languages haven't changed then you're being ridiculous, and if you don't then i don't see why you can't accept that that would happen anyway.
the same language split into two isolated pockets will evolve differently. multiply that by hundreds of thousands of years = different, completely unrecogniseable languages. and races develop in the exact same way, different external variables (weather, lifestyle etc) = different necessary physical characteristics.

if you're just going to respond with "the bible says it so it must be true!" you really, really, don't have to bother, by the way.

[WL_southerner]

come on jay that dont explane why there are 2 types of man ( human after the last ice age ) homo sapeins and neanthal, where the bible say there was only one kind of man

[wick]

jay wrote Last I knew it was called the theory of evolution...not the fact of evolution.
There is a difference between "evolution" and "adaptation". Animals do "adapt" to thier surounding there is scientific evidence of this. But there is NO concrete evidence that evolution ever occured. (That is the transformation of one spiecies into another totally different spiecies over a long period of time).

Wick wrote jay your avatar is that of a polar bear an animal that has evolved and adapted in the way you have asked proof of. "(That is the transformation of one spiecies into another totally different spiecies over a long period of time)".

Evolve: To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one's own.
To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes.

Adapt: To make suitable to or fit for a specific use or situation.
To become adapted: a species that has adapted well to different
conditions, environment, etc...

[Jesse, Bad Boy]

Jay, you're totally free to comment in this thread you know. I mean, it seems that your capable of pointing out all of the misgivings of evolution, you may as well do so where the best argument for it is laid out.

[Backglass]

Hey jay! Tell me again about Carbon Dating again? Don't you say it's all bunk?

[AlgyTaylor]

Probably going to reget asking, but why do you believe that evolution doesnt happen? Honestly now.

We don't see it occurring.

Yes we do, you retard. Bacteria, for a start, evolve very quickly indeed. We can (and do) observe this happening.

There is absolutely no fossil evidence of evolution.

Yes there is. My grandparents live in Gloucestershire (South England). There is a huge field, on the side of a hill, that is full of fossils. At the bottom of the hill are the older fossils, at the top there are newer ones. You can see the gradual changes in the three species of animals for which there are fossils.

I could understand this when I was 6 years old. It's a really simple process
1) Go to bottom of hill. Find fossil. Pick it up.
2) Walk 5-10 metres up the hill. Find fossil. Pick it up.
3) Observe differences.
repeat step 2 & 3 until you reach the top of the hill

It's very easy and you get to see exactly how 3 species of animals evolved over the space of thousands of years. As I say, I managed to grasp this idea when I was 6 - and I'm fortunate enough to be able to return on a fairly regular basis.

[Darklight]

As for evolution, the catholic church didn't even admit to the earth revolving around the sun until the 1900's.
Not believing in evolution is like not believing that the moon causes the tide, or that the wind doesn't exist. Just like with religion just because we can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We can see it's effects.
I believe that the definition of a miracle is something that can't be proven by science. at least at the time...

[Tommy Hobbes]

lawdy lawdy what a long and repetitive thread. As far as validation of one of the two sides. What about the times where the bible is wrong, as in the heliocentric universe? Or the times when it's words get too far from what is socially acceptable, in the case of say, women's lib.? The big holy book that comes from the ultimate authority is wrong in a lot of cases. Whereas science because of its design, evolves. When we figured out the atom wasn't the way we thought it was we said "holy shit! electron cloud? this is freakin' amazing! new textbooks for everybody!" Science doesn't claim to know everything like religion does, so it doesn't require faith. So I like it better.

[Backglass]

lawdy lawdy what a long and repetitive thread. As far as validation of one of the two sides. What about the times where the bible is wrong, as in the heliocentric universe? Or the times when it's words get too far from what is socially acceptable, in the case of say, women's lib.? The big holy book that comes from the ultimate authority is wrong in a lot of cases. Whereas science because of its design, evolves. When we figured out the atom wasn't the way we thought it was we said "holy shit! electron cloud? this is freakin' amazing! new textbooks for everybody!" Science doesn't claim to know everything like religion does, so it doesn't require faith. So I like it better.

I hear ya Tommy. Basically the interpretation changes to fit the whim of the current believers. For example, when you bring up the quotes about slaves, etc, the response is "Oh they meant Servants...like a cook or domestic help".

[neoni]

lawdy lawdy what a long and repetitive thread. As far as validation of one of the two sides. What about the times where the bible is wrong, as in the heliocentric universe? Or the times when it's words get too far from what is socially acceptable, in the case of say, women's lib.? The big holy book that comes from the ultimate authority is wrong in a lot of cases. Whereas science because of its design, evolves. When we figured out the atom wasn't the way we thought it was we said "holy shit! electron cloud? this is freakin' amazing! new textbooks for everybody!" Science doesn't claim to know everything like religion does, so it doesn't require faith. So I like it better.

[unriggable]

We don't see it occurring.

HIV/AIDS

Speech is a learned behavior.

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Each animal has a set number of chromosomes. (Can't buy more or sell the ones you have)

Yeah, but over time chromosomes get bigger until they split in two.

Evolution is not Adaptation (which occurs)

Umm, yes it is. It's adapting and adapting and adapting...

There is absolutely no fossil evidence of evolution.

Find a human skeleton or bone as old as any other fossil. You can't because it doesn't happen.

I will prove that evolution happens right now. My tallest great-grandparent was six feet tall. I am six foot three. My dad is six two. The growth hormone as generations go on is expressed more. That is a form of evolution. Why we adapt to get taller (which we most definitly do) I don't know, maybe so the bus can see us easier? I don't know, the point is that it happens.

[flashleg8]

I will prove that evolution happens right now. My tallest great-grandparent was six feet tall. I am six foot three. My dad is six two. The growth hormone as generations go on is expressed more. That is a form of evolution. Why we adapt to get taller (which we most definitly do) I don't know, maybe so the bus can see us easier? I don't know, the point is that it happens.

This has probably got more to do with better diet, medical practices and a less strenuous environment (ie less manual labour) than evolution. If it was purely an evolutionary factor, we would see height levels increasing in people of all nations rather that it being restricted to "western" nations.

[AlgyTaylor]

Aye, that's basically it. Evolution happens because of advantages ... or rather, disadvantages.

At least as far as I know, people who are short don't die any more or less frequently than people who are tall, and it doesn't have any real impact on "mating practices". Height is purely because we've got a better diet, and we don't shove kids down the mines at 12 any more, so they use their energy to get taller rather than dig for rocks.

[AlgyTaylor]

Dude - this is basically what happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ-h3j_g-eE

[unriggable]

Aye, that's basically it. Evolution happens because of advantages ... or rather, disadvantages.

At least as far as I know, people who are short don't die any more or less frequently than people who are tall, and it doesn't have any real impact on "mating practices". Height is purely because we've got a better diet, and we don't shove kids down the mines at 12 any more, so they use their energy to get taller rather than dig for rocks.

Apparently chicks dig height

That could be a factor of evolution...I dunno, there are way too many factors to consider.

[got tonkaed]

it would be difficult to say whether or not 3 generations is really that significant to assume evolution. While it is quite possible that height does provide some evolutionary advantage...it is too short of a span however to really prove evolution to be true, especially considering some of the other factors mentioned such as diet, medicine and lifestyle.

[unriggable]

it would be difficult to say whether or not 3 generations is really that significant to assume evolution. While it is quite possible that height does provide some evolutionary advantage...it is too short of a span however to really prove evolution to be true, especially considering some of the other factors mentioned such as diet, medicine and lifestyle.

In fifteen years we proved evolution to be true when a bunch of bacteria infested a "colony" (or farm, whatever) of ameobas and actually lived inside it - when the ameoba divided, so did the bacteria. It bring light to the question that asks: When did prokaryotes become eukaryotes?