Americans

[2dimes]

You have no idea how bad it can be until you watch bits of lethal weapon on TBS.

[hourman]

f*ck the FCC.

[benmor78]

I saw The Usual Suspects on TNT, and "Give me the fucking keys you fucking cocksucker" was rendered as "Give me the friggin' keys, you fairy godmother."

[unriggable]

"the best darn sports show ever" because the fcc is scared after the fucking incident with the fucking justin timberlake.

[Blueoctober]

try watching demolition man

[Chad22342]

Every time i see an american i want to pull a 12 gauge out of my pants and shoot their faces off. (i'm australian)

[Vonnegut]

Every time i see an american i want to pull a 12 gauge out of my pants and shoot their faces off. (i'm australian)

every time i see an Australian i want to beat a kangaroo to death with a stingray. all while talking funny and smelling bad.

[Blueoctober]

thats kinda stupid
espcially since the 12 gaufe would be the only thing bigger then and inch and a half in your pants

[Backglass]

Every time i see an american i want to pull a 12 gauge out of my pants and shoot their faces off. (i'm australian)

Yet you are living in New York. How can you stand it seeing Americans everywhere you look?

[SolidLuigi]

Its sad to see fellow westernized nations arguing amongst eachother, that's exactly what the terrorists want. BTW, we bailed out every European country west of Germany in WWII so I think we deserve some respect. And if you think America is in Iraq to "steal" oil you are very uninformed, if we wanted oil, we'd be invading other countries than Iraq that have much more oil.

[SolidLuigi]

I was debating on whether to weigh in, now I think I will contribute.

I am in the United States studying from India. Everything is different here as can be expected. The most striking difference I noticed is the COMPLETE PROLIFERATION OF OBESE PEOPLE HERE!!!!!

You Americans are a sad, sad country of individuals and I used the word "individuals" purposely. No one cares for the community, just to stick more fried foods into their fat mouths!

I can not wait to go back to India and remove the stench of you Americans from my nostrils.

I love this comment. First off how do you define community? If you mean continuing education, allowing the people to get an education at a college...oh wait, thats what you are doing, here in America. Now in India, they really lookout for each other there, I mean they have one of the higher poverty rates so the upper classes are definitely looking out for the poor. And then they have a phenomenal literacy rate, where more than 40% is illiterate, thats a community if I ever saw one. There was a little bit of sarcasm in there if you couldn't tell. Also it's gonna be hard to get the stench of us out of your nose when you are back in India with the Ganges river, where people bathe and deficate while dead bodies are floating by. Great place.

Now I don't usually attack other peoples countries or cultures because to each their own, and I actually like Indian art and culture. But it pisses me off when people who are benefiting from our nation by getting an education here in a safe environment, bad mouth it with a bunch of opinionated nonsense and nothing factual.(besides the obesity, theres definitely an obesity problem in the US.) So I am going to come back and attack your country on those points you attacked mine, even if I like the country, sounds fair to me.

[Koba]

Its sad to see fellow westernized nations arguing amongst eachother, that's exactly what the terrorists want. BTW, we bailed out every European country west of Germany in WWII so I think we deserve some respect. And if you think America is in Iraq to "steal" oil you are very uninformed, if we wanted oil, we'd be invading other countries than Iraq that have much more oil.

You haven't read the thread have you. I'm not going to bother pointing out why you are wrong about WWII, I and many others have done that many times. Just one word though...Switzerland (Hint: link it to every)

[autoload]

I was debating on whether to weigh in, now I think I will contribute.

I am in the United States studying from India. Everything is different here as can be expected. The most striking difference I noticed is the COMPLETE PROLIFERATION OF OBESE PEOPLE HERE!!!!!

You Americans are a sad, sad country of individuals and I used the word "individuals" purposely. No one cares for the community, just to stick more fried foods into their fat mouths!

I can not wait to go back to India and remove the stench of you Americans from my nostrils.

I love this comment. First off how do you define community? If you mean continuing education, allowing the people to get an education at a college...oh wait, thats what you are doing, here in America. Now in India, they really lookout for each other there, I mean they have one of the higher poverty rates so the upper classes are definitely looking out for the poor. And then they have a phenomenal literacy rate, where more than 40% is illiterate, thats a community if I ever saw one. There was a little bit of sarcasm in there if you couldn't tell. Also it's gonna be hard to get the stench of us out of your nose when you are back in India with the Ganges river, where people bathe and deficate while dead bodies are floating by. Great place.

Now I don't usually attack other peoples countries or cultures because to each their own, and I actually like Indian art and culture. But it pisses me off when people who are benefiting from our nation by getting an education here in a safe environment, bad mouth it with a bunch of opinionated nonsense and nothing factual.(besides the obesity, theres definitely an obesity problem in the US.) So I am going to come back and attack your country on those points you attacked mine, even if I like the country, sounds fair to me.

Hahahaha! I can't believe you read through this topic, or at least to my posts long ago.

[Alyss]

Its sad to see fellow westernized nations arguing amongst eachother, that's exactly what the terrorists want. BTW, we bailed out every European country west of Germany in WWII so I think we deserve some respect. And if you think America is in Iraq to "steal" oil you are very uninformed, if we wanted oil, we'd be invading other countries than Iraq that have much more oil.

You haven't read the thread have you. I'm not going to bother pointing out why you are wrong about WWII, I and many others have done that many times. Just one word though...Switzerland (Hint: link it to every)

Quite. It sure as shit wasn't the yanks. Mostly, it was Russia who ocupied the Germans, not the USA.

Furthermore, if the dipshit a few posts above really believes that America didn't go to Iraq for oil then he is an utter nimrod, and will swallow any old shit that comes out of a neo-con mouth. This is precisly the attitude that causes the majority of the world to dislike the USA

[SolidLuigi]

just look at the facts alyss, Iraq was not for oil, much more oil other places, and thats my own resolution, not something i heard from someone. As for WWII, I said anyone west of Germany, because I know Russia had a big part of it, being the eastern front, but if I remember correctly the main forces in D-Day were American, Canadian, and British, and that was one of the more important days in the war which opened another front against Germany.

[Backglass]

Furthermore, if the dipshit a few posts above really believes that America didn't go to Iraq for oil then he is an utter nimrod, and will swallow any old shit that comes out of a neo-con mouth.

Unfortunately, way to many Americans (and many on this site) truly believe that Iraq = 9-11...as that is what they have have been spoon fed by King George and the republican right. I can't tell you how many fellow Americans have said to me that "we need to stay and fight after what they did to us".

Thankfully, this is changing and the American people are waking up to the realization that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, the reasons given for invading were paper thin and King George is basically a blithering idiot.

[SolidLuigi]

Unfortunately, way to many Americans (and many on this site) truly believe that Iraq = 9-11...as that is what they have have been spoon fed by King George and the republican right. I can't tell you how many fellow Americans have said to me that "we need to stay and fight after what they did to us".

Thankfully, this is changing and the American people are waking up to the realization that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, the reasons given for invading were paper thin and King George is basically a blithering idiot.

When did I say Iraq = 9/11, never. I've never believed the culprits of 9/11 were in Iraq. But Iraq is not a war for oil. If you look at a timeline, it's very easy to figure out why we invaded, but it's cooler and more exciting to think that there is always a "conspiracy" or ulterior motives, when in reality the real motives are just what they are stated to be.

After 9/11, Osama Bin Laden stated that he(him and terrorists/al queda) would "not differentiate between military troops and civilians, all are enemies to him". So Bush came back and said that we(the free world) would "not differentiate between terrorists, and the government that harbors them." Iraq had and still has many terrorists in their borders, wether Saddam welcomed them, it doesn't matter, he was doing nothing to stop them. If you allow a criminal to stay in your house, even though you don't help him do the crime, as long as you don't try to stop him(unless he has you as a hostage), you are harboring.

But thats not the only reason. The US was tired of waiting so long for pointless UN sanctions which Saddam so openly defied. A man that spoke hatred of the US and other western/free countries, a dictator who had tried to expand by invading, Iran and Kuwait, a dictator who committed genocide on his own people with biological weapons. Who does this sound like? Sounds alot like Hitler, someone the world in hindsight agrees that we should have stopped a lot sooner.

The third reason is WMD's. Let me put it this way, If your own instincts/research tell you that the sky is blue, you believe it. If your brother, whom most people confide in their family, tells you that the sky is blue, then you are even more confident in your belief. Then if one of your good friends also tells you that the sky is blue, you are very confident in your belief. Your own belief = US Intelligence, Brother = UK Intelligence, Friend = Russian Intelligence. Three of the most respected powers in the world are all saying that Saddam has WMD's. What are you going to believe? I believe if we weren't delayed as long as we were with sanctions and what not, we would have caught him redhanded. Satellite images that were taken before the invasion show numerous large convoys of trucks travelling into nearby Syria.

So I see three very valid reasons to invade a country there, and I believe me and most Americans agreed because support was very high at the beginning. Not finding WMD's was a blow to morale, but instead of looking at the good of taking out a ruthless dictator and giving the people of Iraq a fighting chance, most media and the world said "Bush Lies" because there were no WMD's found. Somehow lying equates to being misinformed by three separate and trusted sources.

Many nations around the world wiped the sweat off their foreheads and let out a "phew" when they heard Saddam was out of power, because he was a threat. But then they decided to rail on America for every little thing. "America, leave Iraq" so you'd want us to cut and run, leave a nation in shambles so insurgents can gain power, or nearby hostile governments can absorb it. Were supposed to mind our business and leave Iraq, but then they want us in Darfur, talks with Korea, talks with Iran, etc. So we are supposed to mind our own business and not at the same time. A lot of countries like to say they care for the Iraqi people and thats why they want America out, but if they cared so much, you'd think they'd help our cause. If every free country moved troops into Iraq (NOT to "bail out America" or "fight Americas war" but to help the Iraqi people, and to install a free Democracy into an area that would benefit greatly from it, and be an ally to ANY free country) Iraq would be secured, it would show many nations working together for a good cause, and it would show terrorists and dictators that the free world wont stand their kind.

That's why Bush was re-elected. There was already alot of anti-Bush sentiment before the 2004 elections. But I think the American people showed that they did believe in him. Kerry was a very well spoken person, on the surface you would think he was smarter(because people base intelligence on stuttering) when in fact both went to Yale and Bush had better grades. Bush won because he stood firm on his beliefs, and what he does, he genuinely believes in. You may think what he does is wrong, but thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. Kerry on the other hand flip-flopped every chance he got depending on what people wanted to hear. I believe many people saw that as a sign of weakness.

Now before you label me as a "Bush Lover" or far right, know that I am not a huge fan of Bush, but a huge fan of our country and the Presidency itself. I spend most of my time standing up for Bush not because I like him, but because he's never given a chance. If something good happens, its because of Government, but if something bad happens, it's all on BUSH. And the name-calling and put downs is just an immature rant that media and people have fallen to. The media has no scruples anymore, each President gets railed on more and more, look at how bad Clinton got it. Next president, no matter what party, will be torn apart because that is what sells.

I also love the double standard in Backglass's statement. It's the usual argument I hear from people. On one hand the person argues about ulterior motives and how Bush and his administration are so sneaky and evil and are controlling so many things behind the scenes, like spoonfeeding people or brainwashing them to get them behind him. But then in another argument, the same person will take low blows at Bush and say hes an idiot or a dunce and hes so stupid he can't do anything. Thanks for putting both instances in one post Backglass, its a good example. Take one or the other, The Evil Mastermind Bush, or The Dumb and Simpleton Bush. You can't attack him as both.

Sorry about the long post, I wanted to put my views forward in a respectable way, took alot more text than I thought, heh.

[SolidLuigi]

Furthermore, if the dipshit a few posts above really believes that America didn't go to Iraq for oil then he is an utter nimrod, and will swallow any old shit that comes out of a neo-con mouth. This is precisly the attitude that causes the majority of the world to dislike the USA

Oh yeah, Alyss, when you want to make a respectable debate, name calling isn't a good thing. It makes you look immature and the validity of your arguments suffer as a result. Why am I a dipshit? Because I have my beliefs as you do yours? And what attitude was it i had in my statement that the world hates? I defended my belief without name calling or putting down the other person I'm debating against. YOUR attitude is what turns many Americans off to many European countries. We are trying hard to do what we think is right, to help other peoples, and you will sit on your pedestal and look down at us and badmouth us without a debate, like your belief is right and there is no other way. It comes across as very pompous and arrogant. It is also the feeling most republicans/conservatives get from liberals here in America.

[Backglass]

When did I say Iraq = 9/11, never.

I wasnt referring to you actually, but making a general statement about many of the American people.

Not finding WMD's was a blow to morale, but instead of looking at the good of taking out a ruthless dictator and giving the people of Iraq a fighting chance, most media and the world said "Bush Lies" because there were no WMD's found. Somehow lying equates to being misinformed by three separate and trusted sources.

You say misinformed...I say he went in with blinders on, seeing what he wanted to see in the reports. I will agree that Saddam was a bad guy...no doubt, but that wasn't the reason we were given for going in and besides, he's dead! Can we go home now? "Mission Accomplished! - GWB

Bush won because he stood firm on his beliefs, and what he does, he genuinely believes in.

Bush won because his brother was the governor of the state doing the vote counting, but what on earth does this have to do with Iraq?

know that I am not a huge fan of Bush, but a huge fan of our country

As am I...both counts.

I spend most of my time standing up for Bush not because I like him, but because he's never given a chance.

Bullshit. He was given a HUGE chance and he fucked it up royally. When playing risk if you had 85% of the board only to get reduced down to 20% (like his polls) would you say you were never given the chance?

Thanks for putting both instances in one post Backglass

Your welcome...I think. He is "an idiot or dunce"...I truly believe that, good grades at Yale or not. There are thousands of people with more degrees than sense, and Bush is obviously one of them. But then again, maybe thats just part of his evil "strategery". I will give him this...he has excellent handlers.

Take one or the other, The Evil Mastermind Bush, or The Dumb and Simpleton Bush. You can't attack him as both.

I'll take Simpleton Bush as I NEVER said he was an evil mastermind...far from it.

[SolidLuigi]

Bush won because his brother was the governor of the state doing the vote counting, but what on earth does this have to do with Iraq?

I was referring to the 2004 election, which I think Ohio was the state that decided it. It has a little to do with Iraq, I am kind of off on a tangent but I was just elaborating on Bush. Plus Bush won fair and square, at least give him that much. But thank you for a mature reply and you concisely answered my points with some good points, good example of how a debate should be.

[Backglass]

Plus Bush won fair and square, at least give him that much.

Well, "fair & square" or "shady & slanted" he DID win...I always thought that all the re-counting and mess did more harm than good. But thats water under the bridge at this point. This summed up my opinion of the last election:

But thank you for a mature reply and you concisely answered my points with some good points, good example of how a debate should be.

And same to you Sir!

[SolidLuigi]

haha, that is a funny picture

[howie]

SolidLuigi wrote:
know that I am not a huge fan of Bush, but a huge fan of our country

So because your a fan of your country that automaticly makes you a fan of the President, no matter what he does wrong, like blowing limbs off children in iraq?

Fed up with the UK always tagging along with the yanks in every damn war, WE REPAYED OUR DEBT. and now you guys want missiles on British soil for your "Star Wars" project

As for WW2 I firmly belive that if it was not for the Battle of britain which we won than the chances of winning the war would of been greatly reduced. You Yanks think you won it by yourself simply because you sent more men, the typical yank forgets that the Allies won the war not the Americans.

[monte485]

Howie ... You seem to be mistaken. It wasn't the Allies "winning" the war, it was the Allies losing the war until when ? Hmm, let me think ... Oh yeah, until the U.S. came to your aid and turned it around. It is an easy thing to turn ones back on someone else when they are in trouble. It's much more harder to turn your back on someone that has come to your aid. You seem to have no problem in that respect, which is possibly one of your better qualities. Just like today, there will be ones that sit on sidelines and be critical while others do what is needed. Lucky for you and anyone else that believes in freedom, you are a minority and England as a whole recognizes the dangerous trend that is formented by radical views of world domination by terror. May you -- or maybe someone in your family -- not be on the wrong bus at the wrong time.

[Guiscard]

But Iraq is not a war for oil. If you look at a timeline, it's very easy to figure out why we invaded, but it's cooler and more exciting to think that there is always a "conspiracy" or ulterior motives, when in reality the real motives are just what they are stated to be.

Where the hell do I start... Firstly, Iraq has the second largest proven oil reserve in the world. When Saddam came to power European and American big business was thrown out of the country with the nationalisation of the oil industry, and have been edging to get back in ever since (but denied by US sanctions). The new Iraqi constitution, drafted under US influence, is now very much open to foreign business interests. Don't kid yourself. The war in Iraq wasn't just about oil, but it was a major motivation.

After 9/11, Osama Bin Laden stated that he(him and terrorists/al queda) would "not differentiate between military troops and civilians, all are enemies to him". So Bush came back and said that we(the free world) would "not differentiate between terrorists, and the government that harbors them." Iraq had and still has many terrorists in their borders, wether Saddam welcomed them, it doesn't matter, he was doing nothing to stop them. If you allow a criminal to stay in your house, even though you don't help him do the crime, as long as you don't try to stop him(unless he has you as a hostage), you are harboring.

Afghanistan can, at least to a degree, be seen as a genuine fulfilment of this rhetoric, but it is an incomplete one in the case of Iraq. For one, there are several other countries, the major example being Pakistan, where Islamic extremists are very much at large. Why ignore Pakistan? Many insurgents in Afghanistan are trained in Pakistani militant camps. Pakistan, however, is a friendly nation (conveniently with Nukes) so apparently escapes Bush's attempt at international policing.

But thats not the only reason. The US was tired of waiting so long for pointless UN sanctions which Saddam so openly defied. A man that spoke hatred of the US and other western/free countries, a dictator who had tried to expand by invading, Iran and Kuwait, a dictator who committed genocide on his own people with biological weapons. Who does this sound like? Sounds alot like Hitler, someone the world in hindsight agrees that we should have stopped a lot sooner.

The 'pointless' UN sanctions are only ineffective in many cases because of the US veto. Any directive which may not benefit the US is vetoed, leading to a similar response by the Russians. The whole point of the UN is that it is an international multilateral organisation in which we must entrust international policing. If the only two countries who approve of direct military action are the UK and the US then what kind of message does this give? When the UN won't bow down in the face of US interests it is ignored.

The third reason is WMD's. Let me put it this way, If your own instincts/research tell you that the sky is blue, you believe it. If your brother, whom most people confide in their family, tells you that the sky is blue, then you are even more confident in your belief. Then if one of your good friends also tells you that the sky is blue, you are very confident in your belief. Your own belief = US Intelligence, Brother = UK Intelligence, Friend = Russian Intelligence. Three of the most respected powers in the world are all saying that Saddam has WMD's. What are you going to believe? I believe if we weren't delayed as long as we were with sanctions and what not, we would have caught him redhanded. Satellite images that were taken before the invasion show numerous large convoys of trucks travelling into nearby Syria.

As for WMDs that theory has been widely debunked. The UK intelligence, at least, was completely fraudulent, and based in part on someone's pHD. Key intelligence officials new that the reports they were pushing were shaky at the time.

Were supposed to mind our business and leave Iraq, but then they want us in Darfur, talks with Korea, talks with Iran, etc. So we are supposed to mind our own business and not at the same time.

People do not, in general, tend to object to the war in Afghanistan (and where there is objection it is, at least in the UK, based more on high casualty rates and the perception that we are at war because we kowtow to the US too much). The reason they object to Iraq is that it is an unjust war for obvious hegemonic benefit. Unilateral action where rhetoric concerning the welfare of the world as a whole is used as a mask for simple hegemonic and selfish benefit is wrong. My arguments as to why we are at war are well documented in this thread, but just to summarise:

1) Hegemony. For the US to have an easily controllable Arab proxy state in the region will provide a major benefit in offsetting the power of Saudi and Iran.

2) Oil (see above).

3) To show a powerful response to the events of 9/11 (more relevant to Afghanistan, but the legacy of a powerful foreign policy is still an important reason for Iraq).

NOT to fight terrorism (and, indeed, it is my opinion that in the UK we are more at risk than ever, and that we are helping to widen the growing divide between the west and the Muslim world).