Equality

[BigBallinStalin]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.

Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

[jay_a2j]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.

Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

Has welfare, or any other liberal program ever caused anybody to rise from poverty? Ever?


No. The truth of the matter is these government programs "for the poor" are designed to keep them that way. Poor. No one gets rich from social services, it's getting OFF IT that gives you the shot. These programs keep the poor where they are and for good reason. If they were to become successful on these programs, (which NEVER happens by design) they would start having to pay taxes and then they would vote republican.


"If you keep the minions poor, they will continue to vote for the party that says it's for the poor." Doesn't get much sicker than that folks.



So, if you want to reduce poverty, vote republican.

[BigBallinStalin]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.

Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

Has welfare, or any other liberal program ever caused anybody to rise from poverty? Ever?

No. The truth of the matter is these government programs "for the poor" are designed to keep them that way. Poor. No one gets rich from social services, it's getting OFF IT that gives you the shot. These programs keep the poor where they are and for good reason. If they were to become successful on these programs, (which NEVER happens by design) they would start having to pay taxes and then they would vote republican.

"If you keep the minions poor, they will continue to vote for the party that says it's for the poor." Doesn't get much sicker than that folks.

So, if you want to reduce poverty, vote republican.

Well, you're wrong because you opened yourself up to a wide range of evidence that counters your point that welfare and other liberal programs have never caused anybody to rise from poverty.

Half-way homes and shelters of that nature have helped people get back on their feet and to help contribute more to society. There are plenty of programs that have helped people, and from my observations I can only tell you this:

There are lot of people on welfare who remain on welfare because they experience a "decent-enough" standard of living. This encourages them to stay that way. However, there are also many people who benefit from welfare and other liberal programs temporarily, and then they pull themselves out. Everyone needs a hand, and sure some people exploit it, but just because they exploit it, doesn't mean that it's right to completely do away with it.

Now, I'm not implying that's something you'd like, for I have no idea. What needs to be is a whole revamping of the welfare system. It is necessary, but to a certain degree, or length of time, it promotes idleness or leeching (of the bad, non-medicinal kind).

If you'd like, jay, you should post some sources stating how long people stay on welfare and how fast do some people get off and become more successful.

Also, a main factor that keeps people poor is also low wages and/or poor budgeting, so it's not just welfare that keeps people in poverty.

[Woodruff]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.
Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

[Snorri1234]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

Almost never, yes. Like, I know absolutely noone who went from rags to riches despite everything being against them.
Most rags to riches stories are bullshit, and the few that are true are just statistical flukes. Sheer hard work doesn't land you anywhere if the circumstances are stacked against you.


You're basically claiming that determination can not be influenced. That's absurd.

[Woodruff]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

Almost never, yes. Like, I know absolutely noone who went from rags to riches despite everything being against them.
Most rags to riches stories are bullshit, and the few that are true are just statistical flukes. Sheer hard work doesn't land you anywhere if the circumstances are stacked against you.
You're basically claiming that determination can not be influenced. That's absurd.

As opposed to the idea being proposed that determination is valueless? Not really. Life is not about what happens to you. Life is about how you react to what happens to you.

[Snorri1234]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

Almost never, yes. Like, I know absolutely noone who went from rags to riches despite everything being against them.
Most rags to riches stories are bullshit, and the few that are true are just statistical flukes. Sheer hard work doesn't land you anywhere if the circumstances are stacked against you.
You're basically claiming that determination can not be influenced. That's absurd.

As opposed to the idea being proposed that determination is valueless? Not really. Life is not about what happens to you. Life is about how you react to what happens to you.

Nobody is saying that determination is valueless. It is, however, not one of the factors that you can use to predicts outcomes on.

Becoming a world-class violin-player takes hard work and determination, yes. It takes a lot of money too though. Money that a poor person is ulikely to ever get. It also takes time which that poor person is also unlikely to have.

Just how exactly is a poor kid with little acces to schooling, needing quick money to feed his family, having almost no stimulation by parents and teachers to work harder, supposed to become a succes?

[Titanic]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.

Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

Has welfare, or any other liberal program ever caused anybody to rise from poverty? Ever?


No. The truth of the matter is these government programs "for the poor" are designed to keep them that way. Poor. No one gets rich from social services, it's getting OFF IT that gives you the shot. These programs keep the poor where they are and for good reason. If they were to become successful on these programs, (which NEVER happens by design) they would start having to pay taxes and then they would vote republican.


"If you keep the minions poor, they will continue to vote for the party that says it's for the poor." Doesn't get much sicker than that folks.



So, if you want to reduce poverty, vote republican.

Wrong. Social mobility is much greater in Western Europe then in the USA, and a huge chunk of this is attributed to the extensive welfare and underprivileged programmes that are run by the states in these countries.

[PLAYER57832]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.

Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

Has welfare, or any other liberal program ever caused anybody to rise from poverty? Ever?

Here's a list of a few of the biggies.

#1 Free education, particularly college financial aid. This is the number one reason our country was able to industrialize so heavily in the 1950's and 1960's. The socialism of the 70's lead directly to the boom of the 80's educationally.

#2. Food stamps, etc. While they are very far from perfect, they have enabled many a child to eat decently and get reasonable childcare that allowed them to enjoy the education and opportunities available to them.

#3 along with #1 and #2 are many other programs, ranging from Medicaid to after school programs that have gone a very long way to keep kids in school, out of trouble and just plain able to grow up enough to where they can be productive citizens.

No. The truth of the matter is these government programs "for the poor" are designed to keep them that way. Poor. No one gets rich from social services, it's getting OFF IT that gives you the shot. These programs keep the poor where they are and for good reason. If they were to become successful on these programs, (which NEVER happens by design) they would start having to pay taxes and then they would vote republican.

Ironically enough, you can blame "traditional Christian values" for some of the biggest problems. When Aid for Families with Dependent Children (Welfare) was instituted, it was basically assumed that women could not go out and support themselves. This attitude has more or less continued in many direct and subtle ways. The idea was that a family with a man should not need help, mostly just women and children.

Now, we see that this is undermining families. A woman who is single, with 5 kids can get a hefty paycheck. A man who is legally divorced, but with kids does not even get credit for the child support he pays out when figuring if he qualifies for various kinds of state assistance.

"If you keep the minions poor, they will continue to vote for the party that says it's for the poor." Doesn't get much sicker than that folks.

Trying to claim that the Democrats are creating programs to enslave poor people definitely caps it ALL!

So, if you want to reduce poverty, vote republican.

I see, which is why we made such inroads in poverty when the Republicans were in office... OOPS, NOT TRUE!

In fact, hunger in the US was eradicated by the 1970's, only to reappear under Reagan, in the very years when our economy was flourishing so heavily.

Sorry Jay, while the programs implemented are absolutely imperfect and need reform, the Republicans idea to simply "blame the victim" is pure stupidity. The REAL answer is something the Republicans are dead set against... to make profitable companies actually PAY workers something above starvation wages. This, in turn does mean implementing selective tarriffs and other trade restrictions. It ALSO means penalizing employers who hire undocumented workers and not employees who are undocumented.

[Phatscotty]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.

Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

you are ignoring the Burger King "promotion"(shift manger/superviser/manger/general manager/franchisee)

[Phatscotty]

Here's a list of a few of the biggies.

#1 Free education, particularly college financial aid. This is the number one reason our country was able to industrialize so heavily in the 1950's and 1960's. The socialism of the 70's lead directly to the boom of the 80's educationally.

#2. Food stamps, etc. While they are very far from perfect, they have enabled many a child to eat decently and get reasonable childcare that allowed them to enjoy the education and opportunities available to them.

How can you have it so wrong? industialize heavily in the 50's and 60's??? Got a clue as to industraialization 1938-1945???? I'm not even getting into it with you.

PLAYER IS ASS BACKWARDS WRONG!

Ta!

[PLAYER57832]

Here's a list of a few of the biggies.

#1 Free education, particularly college financial aid. This is the number one reason our country was able to industrialize so heavily in the 1950's and 1960's. The socialism of the 70's lead directly to the boom of the 80's educationally.

#2. Food stamps, etc. While they are very far from perfect, they have enabled many a child to eat decently and get reasonable childcare that allowed them to enjoy the education and opportunities available to them.

How can you have it so wrong? industialize heavily in the 50's and 60's??? Got a clue as to industraialization 1938-1945???? I'm not even getting into it with you.

PLAYER IS ASS BACKWARDS WRONG!

Ta!

GI bill educated thousands of soldiers returning from WWII, they created the economic base, the boom of the 1950's.

In case you don't remember, the 1930's and early 40's were rather occupied with the depression and a little World War. Sure, the wars saw a continuation and buildup of certain heavy industries. We would not have had the power we did if so much infrastructure had not already existed, but that was just the basis. If it were not for the ability of returning soldiers to get degrees, trade education, our economy would not have been able to flourish as it did. This, in turn set the tone for the 1960's.

[jay_a2j]

GI bill educated thousands of soldiers returning from WWII, they created the economic base, the boom of the 1950's.

In case you don't remember, the 1930's and early 40's were rather occupied with the depression and a little World War. Sure, the wars saw a continuation and buildup of certain heavy industries. We would not have had the power we did if so much infrastructure had not already existed, but that was just the basis. If it were not for the ability of returning soldiers to get degrees, trade education, our economy would not have been able to flourish as it did. This, in turn set the tone for the 1960's.

The GI bill is not welfare. It's a perk for putting your life on the line in defense of your country. It's directly related to EMPLOYMENT.

Welfare was ORIGINALLY created for women who lost their husband in war. A noble cause. What has it morphed into? A way of life for far to many people.


Lets see here:

Overwhelmingly the "poor" vote democrat. So why would the dems want to lose a block of voters? They wouldn't and keeping them poor ensures them votes. Now there is a push by democrats to allow inmates to vote. Hmmm I wonder which way they are likely to vote?


Sadly politicians on both sides of the isle politicize EVERYTHING. They find it hard to, do the right thing solely because it's the right thing to do. Instead the vast majority have a "how will this effect my political career?" attitude.(up until this health care bill anyway) And this is why our system has been corrupted.


This health care bill is being RAMMED down the throats of the American people! We OVERWHELMINGLY do NOT want it. Yet with bribes and all kinds of underhanded goings-on Obama and the dems are determined to force their will on all of us.

BTW my sister has already received a notice that her student loan is now being handled by the federal government. They are grabbing power everywhere! (Why can't you libs see this?)


I will not recognize this once great country 10 years from now.

[Phatscotty]

Here's a list of a few of the biggies.

#1 Free education, particularly college financial aid. This is the number one reason our country was able to industrialize so heavily in the 1950's and 1960's. The socialism of the 70's lead directly to the boom of the 80's educationally.

#2. Food stamps, etc. While they are very far from perfect, they have enabled many a child to eat decently and get reasonable childcare that allowed them to enjoy the education and opportunities available to them.

How can you have it so wrong? industialize heavily in the 50's and 60's??? Got a clue as to industraialization 1938-1945???? I'm not even getting into it with you.

PLAYER IS ASS BACKWARDS WRONG!

Ta!

GI bill educated thousands of soldiers returning from WWII, they created the economic base, the boom of the 1950's.

In case you don't remember, the 1930's and early 40's were rather occupied with the depression and a little World War. Sure, the wars saw a continuation and buildup of certain heavy industries. We would not have had the power we did if so much infrastructure had not already existed, but that was just the basis. If it were not for the ability of returning soldiers to get degrees, trade education, our economy would not have been able to flourish as it did. This, in turn set the tone for the 1960's.

Hmmm, educated in the 40's to create the boom of the 50's? I wonder if you realize you are conceding against your own argument there. How could the education of the 40's be the best in the world if the department of education was not event conceptualized until well into the 50's? And then the 60's happened....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I see the seeds of failed gov't takeover of education only took 10 years to f*ck the country up and give us the generation of the 60's....the first generation under gov't controlled education. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

oh, these are the same dipshits running the banks and the gov't and the economy today.....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[PLAYER57832]

GI bill educated thousands of soldiers returning from WWII, they created the economic base, the boom of the 1950's.

In case you don't remember, the 1930's and early 40's were rather occupied with the depression and a little World War. Sure, the wars saw a continuation and buildup of certain heavy industries. We would not have had the power we did if so much infrastructure had not already existed, but that was just the basis. If it were not for the ability of returning soldiers to get degrees, trade education, our economy would not have been able to flourish as it did. This, in turn set the tone for the 1960's.

The GI bill is not welfare. It's a perk for putting your life on the line in defense of your country. It's directly related to EMPLOYMENT.

Agreed, that remark was in response to Phattscotty's commnet, not yours.

However, other educational programs are "entitlements".

Welfare was ORIGINALLY created for women who lost their husband in war. A noble cause. What has it morphed into? A way of life for far to many people.

As I said, it was ORIGINALLY intended because women could not be considered able to support their families. They needed a man to do it.

Women who continue to be dependent, then is very much a part of that picture. Its just societies' ideas of what women can and cannot do changed in the 1970's.

Lets see here:

Overwhelmingly the "poor" vote democrat. So why would the dems want to lose a block of voters? They wouldn't and keeping them poor ensures them votes. Now there is a push by democrats to allow inmates to vote. Hmmm I wonder which way they are likely to vote?

Ironically enough, a lot of poor people are actually staunch republicans, because they believe the hype that conservatives have been feeding them.

Sadly politicians on both sides of the isle politicize EVERYTHING. They find it hard to, do the right thing solely because it's the right thing to do. Instead the vast majority have a "how will this effect my political career?" attitude.(up until this health care bill anyway) And this is why our system has been corrupted.

Yes, but we have responsibility, too. If more people VOTED with their minds, instead of just listening to the latest political ad, then the answer to "how will this effect my political career" would quickly change.

Unfortunately, too many people today consider "being informed" typing in the latest blog their friend reccommended and not evec bothering to consider that other people might have real and valid points that don't agree with that blog.

This health care bill is being RAMMED down the throats of the American people! We OVERWHELMINGLY do NOT want it. Yet with bribes and all kinds of underhanded goings-on Obama and the dems are determined to force their will on all of us.

so says the extremely vocal right.

The saddest part is that while most people are against this BILL, they are actually FOR most of the provisions within the original bill. AND, the best thing in that bill-- more true universal coverage, was elminated thanks to all the right wing lobbying.

BTW my sister has already received a notice that her student loan is now being handled by the federal government. They are grabbing power everywhere! (You can't you libs see this?)

NEWS FLASH, that was not the "government grabbing", it was banks deciding they did not want to bother.

Oh, and if you think those private loans were such a peachy deal... you got another think coming! I was one of the supposed "high default rate", on TWO occasions. The first time, the bank refused to accept that I was in school, despite every kind of verificaiton I sent. They would only accept THEIR form, but refused to send me THEIR form! I had to get he Dean and my local congressman involved and it STILL wound up in credit reports!

The next time, my loan was sold, not just once, but 3 times in succession. During the sales, the original company somehow "forgot" to forward all the payments I had already made. They also claimed they "could not locate me" and demanded that I present myself in Bakersfield, ONLY IN PERSON (I had gone to school in CA), though I was living a couple thousand miles from there at the time. I got my bank manager, who happened to be involved with Sally Mae at the time, my local congresspeople, etc involved. I STILL wound up paying a few thousand extra.

My Government loans, by contrast, gave me no hassle AT ALL!

And, my experiences are not unusual. This was why things were reformed back a few years ago. This latest is just further reform.

I will not recognize this once great country 10 years from now.

We know, you like to keep your eyes closed.

[PLAYER57832]

Here's a list of a few of the biggies.

#1 Free education, particularly college financial aid. This is the number one reason our country was able to industrialize so heavily in the 1950's and 1960's. The socialism of the 70's lead directly to the boom of the 80's educationally.

#2. Food stamps, etc. While they are very far from perfect, they have enabled many a child to eat decently and get reasonable childcare that allowed them to enjoy the education and opportunities available to them.

How can you have it so wrong? industialize heavily in the 50's and 60's??? Got a clue as to industraialization 1938-1945???? I'm not even getting into it with you.

PLAYER IS ASS BACKWARDS WRONG!

Ta!

GI bill educated thousands of soldiers returning from WWII, they created the economic base, the boom of the 1950's.

In case you don't remember, the 1930's and early 40's were rather occupied with the depression and a little World War. Sure, the wars saw a continuation and buildup of certain heavy industries. We would not have had the power we did if so much infrastructure had not already existed, but that was just the basis. If it were not for the ability of returning soldiers to get degrees, trade education, our economy would not have been able to flourish as it did. This, in turn set the tone for the 1960's.

Hmmm, educated in the 40's to create the boom of the 50's? I wonder if you realize you are conceding against your own argument there. How could the education of the 40's be the best in the world if the department of education was not event conceptualized until well into the 50's? And then the 60's

The GI bill was created immediately after WWII. We had free education before that, but yes, it was not headed by the official department of education as we know it now. You are confusing reality with beauracracy.

happened....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I see the seeds of failed gov't takeover of education only took 10 years to f*ck the country up and give us the generation of the 60's....the first generation under gov't controlled education. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM[

Yes, go ahead and forget Sputnik and all the advances our country saw in science during the 60's and 70's. Let's just leap straight to the failures from the Republicans.

oh, these are the same dipshits running the banks and the gov't and the economy today.....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

More like their kids.

But you can hardly blame them for making money under they system. Its not their job to control their own wealth. Its our job to let the government do it. Sadly, too many have decided that government=negativity without exception, despite all evidence to the contrary.

[jay_a2j]

Here's a list of a few of the biggies.

#1 Free education, particularly college financial aid. This is the number one reason our country was able to industrialize so heavily in the 1950's and 1960's. The socialism of the 70's lead directly to the boom of the 80's educationally.

#2. Food stamps, etc. While they are very far from perfect, they have enabled many a child to eat decently and get reasonable childcare that allowed them to enjoy the education and opportunities available to them.

How can you have it so wrong? industialize heavily in the 50's and 60's??? Got a clue as to industraialization 1938-1945???? I'm not even getting into it with you.

PLAYER IS ASS BACKWARDS WRONG!

Ta!

GI bill educated thousands of soldiers returning from WWII, they created the economic base, the boom of the 1950's.

In case you don't remember, the 1930's and early 40's were rather occupied with the depression and a little World War. Sure, the wars saw a continuation and buildup of certain heavy industries. We would not have had the power we did if so much infrastructure had not already existed, but that was just the basis. If it were not for the ability of returning soldiers to get degrees, trade education, our economy would not have been able to flourish as it did. This, in turn set the tone for the 1960's.

Hmmm, educated in the 40's to create the boom of the 50's? I wonder if you realize you are conceding against your own argument there. How could the education of the 40's be the best in the world if the department of education was not event conceptualized until well into the 50's? And then the 60's

The GI bill was created immediately after WWII. We had free education before that, but yes, it was not headed by the official department of education as we know it now. You are confusing reality with beauracracy.

happened....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I see the seeds of failed gov't takeover of education only took 10 years to f*ck the country up and give us the generation of the 60's....the first generation under gov't controlled education. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM[

Yes, go ahead and forget Sputnik and all the advances our country saw in science during the 60's and 70's. Let's just leap straight to the failures from the Republicans.

oh, these are the same dipshits running the banks and the gov't and the economy today.....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

More like their kids.

But you can hardly blame them for making money under they system. Its not their job to control their own wealth. Its our job to let the government do it. Sadly, too many have decided that government=negativity without exception, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Fixed. Quote the right people eh?

[Phatscotty]

sputnik?

[PLAYER57832]

sputnik?

Which scared the US leadership and specifically spurred us on to advance science education.

so yes, "sputnik".. it is a common phrase that refers to a known event and its consequences in the US, namely that the US put much, much more emphasis on science and mathematics education. AND, for a while it paid off.

Began to slide around the time of Reagan.

[BigBallinStalin]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.
Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

Nice dodge, you're still wrong on this one.

[Woodruff]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.
Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

Nice dodge, you're still wrong on this one.

It wasn't a dodge at all. If you're following the thread, it is precisely what I've claimed from my entrance into the thread.

[BigBallinStalin]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.
Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

Then let's recap:

Are you of the the opinion that sheer hard work alone will cause one to rise from poverty?

Regardless of one's sheer hard work, are not one's environment and circumstances (as Snorri stated earlier) the most decisive factor?

[PLAYER57832]

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

Sometimes there just are not other options.

It wasn't a dodge. AND, you have to remember that it takes knowledge to know of other options. In some areas, people just don't have that knowledge, which is a pretty complext thing. You take for granted so many things, without even realizing how many people don't have those options, don't even know there ARE those options.

[Woodruff]

In the end, your succes is really always contained by your environment and circumstances.

Which is why nobody ever rises from poverty by sheer hard work. Ever.

You can bust your ass at Burger King all you want, but the layout of that program only teaches you on part of the skill of cooking--like post-cooked burger assembly. With those skills coupled with environmental factors like poor local schools, one can bust their ass all they want and see no improvement for years. What also effects this is their basic abilities: like intelligence, wisdom, or what have you.
Sheer busting of the ass isn't the only thing that makes people rise from poverty. There are more factors that you seem to be ignoring, or just unable to see.

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

Then let's recap:
Are you of the the opinion that sheer hard work alone will cause one to rise from poverty?
Regardless of one's sheer hard work, are not one's environment and circumstances (as Snorri stated earlier) the most decisive factor?

As I mentioned previously, certainly bad things can happen to good people (meaning that even with doing "the right things with the right attitude", things can go badly). However, by and large, if someone has the desire, determination and the perspective of their own talents, they will be successful. Again, I'm not talking about being RICH necessarily, but I AM talking about being monetarily successful (not idealistically successful).

That you believe "someone who is determined to be a success" would be spending any significant amount of time working at Burger King says far more about you than it does about me.

Sometimes there just are not other options.

It wasn't a dodge. AND, you have to remember that it takes knowledge to know of other options. In some areas, people just don't have that knowledge, which is a pretty complext thing. You take for granted so many things, without even realizing how many people don't have those options, don't even know there ARE those options.

I teach in a school where most of those kids don't have those options (85% of the student body is on free/reduced lunches). Part of my job as a teacher is to make sure they're aware of their options, both now and once they graduate.

[PLAYER57832]

I teach in a school where most of those kids don't have those options (85% of the student body is on free/reduced lunches). Part of my job as a teacher is to make sure they're aware of their options, both now and once they graduate.

Again, you are missing my point. Those kids have you. My family was just above the poverty line growing up. Yet, I have seen more of this country, was aware of many, many more things than the boss' kids with whom we played, in fact with many in our town who were, frankly, quite wealthy. They had opportunities, but did not avail themselves. With them, I would agree its "attitude".

However, when I got older, I spent some time working with people who had come from deep LA, Oakland, etc. Maybe your environment is more like that. If so, I can only say that they will benefit by your teaching. HOWEVER, you are in high school. Too many kids don't even reach that point. Many who do won't get into your class. They may "have" the option, but unless their parents, friends, or someone in their life... even a teacher or neighbor, gives them the idea that it is even possible, many won't even try. They have been defeated before we would say they have ever begun. A few of those may, in prison or even perhaps a church, may still find a path, a way "out", but not all.

See, just having the "right attitude" is not something with which people are truly born. In almost all cases, it has to come from somewhere. I hope you can be that someone, sounds like you might be one of them.

Maybe I can simplify this by taking the most extreme example. Some children who are very abused, perhaps even not heavy physical abuse, but who are "simply" ignored, may never form attachments. They simply don't have the knowledge or capacity to love another human being. Sometimes, if caught early enough, with intense therapy, those kids can go on to lead normal lives. However, most don't. Even something as "simple" and "automatic" as loving actually has to be taught (this is apart from Autistics who are loved, but lack the brain connections to properly process understanding of other humans). This idea of "attitude" is so much more complex and involved.

I am happy that you have found it, that you have it. Its just that not everyone has that ability, that capability. Part of that is "inbuilt" .. milder versions of things along the Autistic spectrum (just as an example), part of it is taught. Most is a mixture of both.