[GP] [Rules] Eliminate Deferred Troops

[Sniper08]

no need to shout everything woodruff. its still annoying that people still get troops even though they missed a turn. i agree take the deferred troops away.

[cena-rules]

1) got a phone call bull 90 percent of the world is on cordless.

2)did not have accsess to a internet conection bull get a babysitter before you go.

3)i had a emergency does not take 48 hours off your time so bull again.

4) im a noob who likes cheating horray you are telling the truth

1) so what about the other 10%
2) what about powercuts?
3) Yes...they can
4) Thanks for telling us all

[The Neon Peon]

Imagine that you log on one day, go into a game, begin your turn then a bug occurs.

The bug only lets you deploy your troops but only on one territory.
You can't attack.
You can't fort.
You can't get a card.

That would be a huge disadvantage don't you think?

Now imagine that same bug occurring except you only get to deploy at the end of the turn after that one and all your opponents having an extra turn to break your bonus.

That would be what happens when you miss a turn.

So you're saying that's an advantage? Okay, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree. Why don't you go take the "advantage" in games by deploying, not attacking and not moving any troops around then not using the troops you deployed for another round?

...

Edit: I support this suggestion, but not the way you justified it.

[eddie2]

eliminate deferered troups.

sorry but hade enough of players missing shots to come back and play to get the advantage.

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE. PERIOD. NONE. IN FACT, THERE IS A DISADVANTAGE. SADLY, YOU APPEAR UNWILLING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT DISADVANTAGE THEREFORE YOU GIVE THEM THE ADVANTAGE YOURSELF THROUGH YOUR LACK OF ACTION.

ok take hive fog you saying if you have 50 troup deploy miss 2 turns where it is hard to find where they all are. to take the bonus areas so you go looking depleting your troups giving positions away while doing it then he comes back to 50 to smash u then 50 on the middle of your bonus thats 1 example players are using this to smash regions then be able to stack in the middle of your region bonus.

another 8 player escalating spoil games where you have to cash first miss a couple of shot where only a fool will attack u if they cant eliminate you for cards not only do u get deferred troups you also get 28 deploy instead of 7

[dwilhelmi]

Here is my thought on this - sometimes stuff happens. You miss turns. I have not had that happen, thankfully, but I can see how it would. If you eliminate deferred troops, you are basically shooting someone in the foot if they should happen to miss. They are out. That is such a major deficit to come back from - missing a turn, not being able to respond to attacks by opponents for a whole round, AND losing all of your extra troops? Deferred troops allow people who miss, and are put at a major disadvantage because of it, the chance to get back into the battle.

I could, however, buy an argument for some sort of penalty for missing a turn. Perhaps they should be given some reduced amount of deferred troops? Lose all of their spoils? Or maybe instead of just holding onto the troops you would have gotten, you get a multiplier of your troops the next time you do play? So, if you miss one turn, then your next turn you get the number of expected troops * 2 - that way, if your opponents can take advantage of your absence by breaking your bonus, then you get a whole lot less troops than you would have with the current deferred system.

[safariguy5]

This is the problem. People in public games don't recognize that missing a turn is a disadvantage. In high level and clan games, missing a turn is like painting a target on your back. With the lower troop count, people will break your bonuses and target your territories. It's simply a matter of people recognizing that weakness and punishing the turn misser for it.

[Woodruff]

no need to shout everything woodruff.

It should be shouted from the mountaintops, so that everyone, even the criminally stupid, would hear it and realize it.

[Woodruff]

eliminate deferered troups.

sorry but hade enough of players missing shots to come back and play to get the advantage.

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE. PERIOD. NONE. IN FACT, THERE IS A DISADVANTAGE. SADLY, YOU APPEAR UNWILLING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT DISADVANTAGE THEREFORE YOU GIVE THEM THE ADVANTAGE YOURSELF THROUGH YOUR LACK OF ACTION.

ok take hive fog you saying if you have 50 troup deploy miss 2 turns where it is hard to find where they all are. to take the bonus areas so you go looking depleting your troups giving positions away while doing it then he comes back to 50 to smash u then 50 on the middle of your bonus thats 1 example players are using this to smash regions then be able to stack in the middle of your region bonus.
another 8 player escalating spoil games where you have to cash first miss a couple of shot where only a fool will attack u if they cant eliminate you for cards not only do u get deferred troups you also get 28 deploy instead of 7

Hello? If you can afford to defer troops by missing turns to "gain an advantage" then you ALREADY HAVE SUCH AN ADVANTAGE THAT THE GAME IS WON FOR YOU IF YOU'LL JUST PLAY YOUR FREAKING TURNS. In other words, the only way this is an advantage to anyone is if they already essentially have the game locked up. Period. End of story.

[eddie2]

eliminate deferered troups.

sorry but hade enough of players missing shots to come back and play to get the advantage.

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE. PERIOD. NONE. IN FACT, THERE IS A DISADVANTAGE. SADLY, YOU APPEAR UNWILLING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT DISADVANTAGE THEREFORE YOU GIVE THEM THE ADVANTAGE YOURSELF THROUGH YOUR LACK OF ACTION.

ok take hive fog you saying if you have 50 troup deploy miss 2 turns where it is hard to find where they all are. to take the bonus areas so you go looking depleting your troups giving positions away while doing it then he comes back to 50 to smash u then 50 on the middle of your bonus thats 1 example players are using this to smash regions then be able to stack in the middle of your region bonus.
another 8 player escalating spoil games where you have to cash first miss a couple of shot where only a fool will attack u if they cant eliminate you for cards not only do u get deferred troups you also get 28 deploy instead of 7

Hello? If you can afford to defer troops by missing turns to "gain an advantage" then you ALREADY HAVE SUCH AN ADVANTAGE THAT THE GAME IS WON FOR YOU IF YOU'LL JUST PLAY YOUR FREAKING TURNS. In other words, the only way this is an advantage to anyone is if they already essentially have the game locked up. Period. End of story.

at a guess you have never played hive then also the escalating games point you dont need to be at the advantage cause nobody will take u out

[eddie2]

1) got a phone call bull 90 percent of the world is on cordless.

2)did not have accsess to a internet conection bull get a babysitter before you go.

3)i had a emergency does not take 48 hours off your time so bull again.

4) im a noob who likes cheating horray you are telling the truth

1) so what about the other 10%
2) what about powercuts?
3) Yes...they can
4) Thanks for telling us all

ow yes another totally unaceptible one is my wife went into labour come on for f sake you had 8 months to get a babysitter.

[safariguy5]

eliminate deferered troups.

sorry but hade enough of players missing shots to come back and play to get the advantage.

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE. PERIOD. NONE. IN FACT, THERE IS A DISADVANTAGE. SADLY, YOU APPEAR UNWILLING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT DISADVANTAGE THEREFORE YOU GIVE THEM THE ADVANTAGE YOURSELF THROUGH YOUR LACK OF ACTION.

ok take hive fog you saying if you have 50 troup deploy miss 2 turns where it is hard to find where they all are. to take the bonus areas so you go looking depleting your troups giving positions away while doing it then he comes back to 50 to smash u then 50 on the middle of your bonus thats 1 example players are using this to smash regions then be able to stack in the middle of your region bonus.
another 8 player escalating spoil games where you have to cash first miss a couple of shot where only a fool will attack u if they cant eliminate you for cards not only do u get deferred troups you also get 28 deploy instead of 7

Hello? If you can afford to defer troops by missing turns to "gain an advantage" then you ALREADY HAVE SUCH AN ADVANTAGE THAT THE GAME IS WON FOR YOU IF YOU'LL JUST PLAY YOUR FREAKING TURNS. In other words, the only way this is an advantage to anyone is if they already essentially have the game locked up. Period. End of story.

at a guess you have never played hive then also the escalating games point you dont need to be at the advantage cause nobody will take u out

Let's assume you are playing Hive. First off, we're talking about a map that is significantly larger than any other map. Let's also assume that this is an escalating game and we've gotten far enough along that the cashes are getting important. This should be about the time when the cashes hit about 150 in Hive. So you miss a turn. In Hive, even in an escalating game, people take bonuses. At this point in the game, you're probably pulling down about 30 troops per turn because of regions and bonuses. Now, if you miss a turn, the correct way for other players to play is to target you and break your bonuses. Then, when you come back, you'll have lost the troops you would have gotten from your bonus on top of the troops lost from territory lost. On top of that, you also lost an opportunity at taking a card, which late game escalating, is very important. I don't see how this is "advantageous" at all if your opponents know what they are doing. The problem here is that your opponents don't know.

[Bones2484]

I'll gladly play 100 games with you if you promise to miss 2/3 of your turns to "gain this benefit".

[Woodruff]

eliminate deferered troups.

sorry but hade enough of players missing shots to come back and play to get the advantage.

THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE. PERIOD. NONE. IN FACT, THERE IS A DISADVANTAGE. SADLY, YOU APPEAR UNWILLING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT DISADVANTAGE THEREFORE YOU GIVE THEM THE ADVANTAGE YOURSELF THROUGH YOUR LACK OF ACTION.

ok take hive fog you saying if you have 50 troup deploy miss 2 turns where it is hard to find where they all are. to take the bonus areas so you go looking depleting your troups giving positions away while doing it then he comes back to 50 to smash u then 50 on the middle of your bonus thats 1 example players are using this to smash regions then be able to stack in the middle of your region bonus.
another 8 player escalating spoil games where you have to cash first miss a couple of shot where only a fool will attack u if they cant eliminate you for cards not only do u get deferred troups you also get 28 deploy instead of 7

Hello? If you can afford to defer troops by missing turns to "gain an advantage" then you ALREADY HAVE SUCH AN ADVANTAGE THAT THE GAME IS WON FOR YOU IF YOU'LL JUST PLAY YOUR FREAKING TURNS. In other words, the only way this is an advantage to anyone is if they already essentially have the game locked up. Period. End of story.

at a guess you have never played hive then also the escalating games point you dont need to be at the advantage cause nobody will take u out

I haven't played Hive, but I've seen it...yet that is 100% entirely irrelevant to my point. There is no advantage at all. As Bones said, I will gladly play you in 100 games on any map at all if you will simply agree to miss 2/3 of your turns. My only requirement is that the games be sequential rather than freestyle (as I don't play freestyle). You won't win more than 7 games doing that, and I find it unlikely you'd even win that many. Care to take the challenge?

[TheForgivenOne]

A couple months ago, RIGHT in the middle of my turn, my internet went out. Because of horrible weather, and the fact i have Satellite/wireless internet, which for some reason can't handle bad storms, It went without internet for 72 hours.

Hmmmm, did i have time to get a babysitter in the 0.5 seconds i had before my internet was going out? No. Did i have anyway to tell someone to play my turns? No. So how the hell is it my fault? I live 8 miles from any source of civilization, so we can only use Satellite internet.

And don't go and say "Oh you can predict now when it will go out" Because i can't, the internet doesn't always go out during a storm, only sometimes. And i'm not going to go find someone for those "Just in case" scenario's, because i would forget half the time.

People shouldn't be punished because their real life interrupted them. I'm sure if you missed turns based on a weird turn of events, i'm sure you'd totally against this saying it's unfair

[eddie2]

A couple months ago, RIGHT in the middle of my turn, my internet went out. Because of horrible weather, and the fact i have Satellite/wireless internet, which for some reason can't handle bad storms, It went without internet for 72 hours.

Hmmmm, did i have time to get a babysitter in the 0.5 seconds i had before my internet was going out? No. Did i have anyway to tell someone to play my turns? No. So how the hell is it my fault? I live 8 miles from any source of civilization, so we can only use Satellite internet.

And don't go and say "Oh you can predict now when it will go out" Because i can't, the internet doesn't always go out during a storm, only sometimes. And i'm not going to go find someone for those "Just in case" scenario's, because i would forget half the time.

People shouldn't be punished because their real life interrupted them. I'm sure if you missed turns based on a weird turn of events, i'm sure you'd totally against this saying it's unfair

i thought part of being in a clan was for this type of occurance. at a guess you have got people you play with all the time so will notice if u not playing so can jump in if they have password i have 2 players i can rely on and also 2 i play for if they get stuck

[dwilhelmi]

Simple fact: people who miss do not get more armies than they normally would. They get exactly as many armies as they would have gotten had they been here to play. I just do not think that players who miss should be punished that extremely because people fail to plan for the fact that they have not deployed their armies yet.

i thought part of being in a clan was for this type of occurance. at a guess you have got people you play with all the time so will notice if u not playing so can jump in if they have password i have 2 players i can rely on and also 2 i play for if they get stuck

Not everyone is a member of a clan. In fact, if everyone in a clan had a system like this, then removing the deferred troops would only hurt new players who have not gotten into clans yet.

One thing I noticed just now, though, is that deferred troops do not get added to the Troops Due column of the Statistics table. In one of my current games, Game 6762659, green (TreadOnYourFace) missed his last turn. He currently has 15 territories, and controls Aussie. This should give him 7 armies due, plus the deferred troops from his last missed turn. However, the Troops Due column only states 7 Troops Due. Perhaps a different suggestion would be to add deferred troops to the Troops Due number, in order to act as a reminder to the other players in the game of the amount of troops coming to the player who missed.

[TheForgivenOne]

A couple months ago, RIGHT in the middle of my turn, my internet went out. Because of horrible weather, and the fact i have Satellite/wireless internet, which for some reason can't handle bad storms, It went without internet for 72 hours.

Hmmmm, did i have time to get a babysitter in the 0.5 seconds i had before my internet was going out? No. Did i have anyway to tell someone to play my turns? No. So how the hell is it my fault? I live 8 miles from any source of civilization, so we can only use Satellite internet.

And don't go and say "Oh you can predict now when it will go out" Because i can't, the internet doesn't always go out during a storm, only sometimes. And i'm not going to go find someone for those "Just in case" scenario's, because i would forget half the time.

People shouldn't be punished because their real life interrupted them. I'm sure if you missed turns based on a weird turn of events, i'm sure you'd totally against this saying it's unfair

i thought part of being in a clan was for this type of occurance. at a guess you have got people you play with all the time so will notice if u not playing so can jump in if they have password i have 2 players i can rely on and also 2 i play for if they get stuck

Yeah, but as the NR said above me, this would hurt new players, and would drive potential paying customers away from this game. And what if they weren't in a current team game with you? I know that i try to keep my games down, and sooner or later all my team games usually finish, and we don't have any team games up. Since we are new, we aren't really playing too many with each other. I know every once in a while, i think i will get back in time to take my turns, say, going over to a party at about 7pm~. Just because it may hurt you once in a while, doesn't mean it will always benefit them. Half the time it gives YOU a chance to break their bonus, or knock down their troop deploy.

[eddie2]

Simple fact: people who miss do not get more armies than they normally would. They get exactly as many armies as they would have gotten had they been here to play. I just do not think that players who miss should be punished that extremely because people fail to plan for the fact that they have not deployed their armies yet.

i thought part of being in a clan was for this type of occurance. at a guess you have got people you play with all the time so will notice if u not playing so can jump in if they have password i have 2 players i can rely on and also 2 i play for if they get stuck

Not everyone is a member of a clan. In fact, if everyone in a clan had a system like this, then removing the deferred troops would only hurt new players who have not gotten into clans yet.

One thing I noticed just now, though, is that deferred troops do not get added to the Troops Due column of the Statistics table. In one of my current games, Game 6762659, green (TreadOnYourFace) missed his last turn. He currently has 15 territories, and controls Aussie. This should give him 7 armies due, plus the deferred troops from his last missed turn. However, the Troops Due column only states 7 Troops Due. Perhaps a different suggestion would be to add deferred troops to the Troops Due number, in order to act as a reminder to the other players in the game of the amount of troops coming to the player who missed.

perfect example of escalating so what does red do lose his troups to take out green which will weaken himself spoils are at 25. so say red does that to green ok red wont get all of green but will be week from attack if you all have sets and game will be over whereas if green has a set because of this situation can miss another shot where cashes will be enough to take red out will have a 14 deffered troups to deploy and another possible set because cash is gonna be 35 i am looking at Game 6762659

[dwilhelmi]

OK, I'll grant you the fact that in this particular situation, not much will be lost to green from the missed turn. Fact still is, though, that even though green gets 14 troops next round, that is still the same amount as he would have gotten had he not missed - 7 last round, and 7 this round.

The only way that missing a turn can be an advantage right now is if your opponents both fail to take advantage of your missed turn, and fail to remember that you are due more troops, giving you the element of surprise. As long as your opponents are aware of the fact that you missed a turn, it is more likely that you will lose an edge, or at least will stay relatively unchanged, as is the case in this game.

[eddie2]

OK, I'll grant you the fact that in this particular situation, not much will be lost to green from the missed turn. Fact still is, though, that even though green gets 14 troops next round, that is still the same amount as he would have gotten had he not missed - 7 last round, and 7 this round.

The only way that missing a turn can be an advantage right now is if your opponents both fail to take advantage of your missed turn, and fail to remember that you are due more troops, giving you the element of surprise. As long as your opponents are aware of the fact that you missed a turn, it is more likely that you will lose an edge, or at least will stay relatively unchanged, as is the case in this game.

also the advantage with spoils escalating if he has a 3 card set he is saving cashing till u lot fight a little bit between yourselfs he will then have a 35 trade where he will stand a chence to eliminate 1 player get poss 3 cards then a 14 defered troups to fort himself so in effect these misses are winning him the game. this kind of play happens quite alot and that is why i want deffered troups eliminated. because it stops them from suiciding all troups they have nowing they can fort after

[dwilhelmi]

also the advantage with spoils escalating if he has a 3 card set he is saving cashing till u lot fight a little bit between yourselfs he will then have a 35 trade where he will stand a chence to eliminate 1 player get poss 3 cards then a 14 defered troups to fort himself so in effect these misses are winning him the game.

Would he not also save cashing in his spoils by not attacking? If he had last turn just deployed his 7 troops, not attacked, and ended his turn, it would have accomplished the exact same thing. Cards do not have to be traded in until you have 5. I guess that could be another potential advantage of skipping turns - if you have a set of 5, you could skip a couple of turns, waiting to drive up the trade in bonus. That would be a relatively rare scenario, though - a situation in which you have five cards, and the trade ins are high enough to make it worth missing turns, while at the same time being strong enough to resist attacks by other people trading in big bonuses, who would be looking at your 5 cards with much desire. On top of that, removing deferred troops wouldn't even resolve that particular scenario anyway.

[pmchugh]

Simple fact: people who miss do not get more armies than they normally would. They get exactly as many armies as they would have gotten had they been here to play. I just do not think that players who miss should be punished that extremely because people fail to plan for the fact that they have not deployed their armies yet.

i thought part of being in a clan was for this type of occurance. at a guess you have got people you play with all the time so will notice if u not playing so can jump in if they have password i have 2 players i can rely on and also 2 i play for if they get stuck

Not everyone is a member of a clan. In fact, if everyone in a clan had a system like this, then removing the deferred troops would only hurt new players who have not gotten into clans yet.

One thing I noticed just now, though, is that deferred troops do not get added to the Troops Due column of the Statistics table. In one of my current games, Game 6762659, green (TreadOnYourFace) missed his last turn. He currently has 15 territories, and controls Aussie. This should give him 7 armies due, plus the deferred troops from his last missed turn. However, the Troops Due column only states 7 Troops Due. Perhaps a different suggestion would be to add deferred troops to the Troops Due number, in order to act as a reminder to the other players in the game of the amount of troops coming to the player who missed.

perfect example of escalating so what does red do lose his troups to take out green which will weaken himself spoils are at 25. so say red does that to green ok red wont get all of green but will be week from attack if you all have sets and game will be over whereas if green has a set because of this situation can miss another shot where cashes will be enough to take red out will have a 14 deffered troups to deploy and another possible set because cash is gonna be 35 i am looking at Game 6762659

Why not cash, deploy, take a card and sit. This way you get to use all your troops rather than have some deffered

[drunkmonkey]

Concise description:
I've searched the forum, and several people want to eliminate deferred troops altogether, which I'm not advocating. I just want to eliminate deferred troops on the first turn of the game.

Specifics:
Missing your first turn in a 1v1 game gives you an advantage, in my opinion. Basically, you end up going second, but you get 3 extra troops at the end of Round 1. Usually, missing a turn means an advantage for the other player, but in this case, the only "advantage" they get is taking their turn first.

My suggestion: If the first player misses his turn, he loses the right to play first. The game continues as if player 2 was given the first turn. Play order is determined randomly, so no one is really "losing" anything.

[dwilhelmi]

After all of that, I would like to add that I am all for some sort of penalty for missing turns, I just don't think it should be as extreme as cutting out deferred troops entirely. So, here would be my suggestions for when a user misses a turn:
1) Give them only half of their deferred troops, rounded down. This would penalize people for missing their turn, without shutting them out entirely - and is also a compromise between the two camps of belief on this issue.
2) Update the Troops Due column in the Statistics table to include the currently deferred troops. This will keep the other players informed of how many troops the player will receive on their next turn.

[lord voldemort]

ifs its an escalting game why are you going for kills if you cannot complete the kill??