Whats Up With America?!?

[Phatscotty]

Um hey so i have many problems with the USA but here is my major issue which i would like to be open for discussion.
The Right To Bear Arms
Now i agree with the Family Guy interpretation that every American has the right to hand a pair of bear arms on there wall.
But seriously does congress not realize the outdated nature of this American Revolution war era right.
The selling of rifles for hunting is one thing but handguns, semi automatic and fully automatic weapons is just outrageous. Do Americans not take notice of the rediculously high levels of death by guns or the fact that they are flooding mexico with guns or good forbid "southerners" owning guns. In australia guns are held only by criminal and gangs and they mostly use them on other criminals with guns there is rarely hold ups with guns and there is certainly no motherfucking emos running around killing 40 people or a disgruntled postal worker. The unavialbility of guns means that kind of shit doesnt happen.
What right to americans have to own pistols and automatic weapons is what i ask you?

whoa whoa whoa. May I try to simplify your statement for my knuckle dragging brain? It seems, from what you are saying, your real problem is not with the second amendment, it is with mega-powerful guns that are designed for killing people.

May I also point of the obtuseness of calling for the entire population of law abiding, gun owning, license and registration filing, pistol holding Americans to give up their right to bear arms because of illegal gun deals in mexico?

Another thing, yes there have been a quite a few shooting in Australia, I do not portend to throw this in your face for any reason other than to point out how entirely un-informed you are on every level.

What right do americans have? It's called the second Amendment in the BILL OF RIGHTS. Like I said, so uninformed.....

the simplicity of your errors exposes your hate.

[Phatscotty]

Here is an easy answer from a hand gun bearing American.

Many statistics have been ran and proven showing that countries that impose strict gun control laws actually have major problems with almost all categories of violent crimes increasing after the laws are imposed. The problem is that gun control laws don't take guns out of the hands of criminals, they take the guns out of the hands of those that intend to follow the law and do what they are supposed to. These are the same people who are likely to fall in the category of being victims of violent crimes after gun control laws. It has been shown that Great Britain had a major increase in violent crimes after their gun control laws and also shown that their criminals still don't have a problem getting guns. It is also very widely speculated that GB's government has played down the statistics on crimes committed in their country after the laws have been imposed meaning the numbers are even worse than what is already shown (they are already bad). The following is a link to more stats and statements along the same lines.

http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

Much more importantly than the above, it is written in our constitution and believed by many that hand guns and assault rifles should be own for 2 main reasons.

1) To keep our own government from ever becoming a tyranny and enforcing it's will upon the people, and;
2) To deter any other country from ever invading our country and trying to enforce military law on our population.

With a gun behind every door, either of these situations would prove to be more than tricky for any country (including our own). No entity would ever be able to control our population, instead it would turn into a war where they would probably be forced to kill most of us and never treat us as they wish. To show a strong support for this, read the following 2 quotes that came from Admiral Iskoroku Yamamoto, who led the Japanese war against the United States in WWII and is the only country to ever even consider invading the United States since the American Revolution.

"Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians.. [who speak so lightly of a Japanese-American war].. have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices."

And more importantly:

"I would never invade the United States, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass."

I honestly believe that not only should we not have more gun control laws, we should have more guns in the United States. If there was a gun behind pretty much every door in the United States, how many criminals do you think would be willing to break into houses and try to rob people then? If nearly everyone around you was carrying a gun, how many people do you think would be willing to open up fire in the middle of a crowded mall or school? And if they chose to, how many shots do you think they would get off at innocent people before they were shot themselves?

too many facts and too much common sense. You will not survive long in this forum

[b.k. barunt]

?

too many facts and too much common sense. You will not survive long in this forum[/quote]

And yet here you are, a veritable fountain of verbal flatulence, still waddling around like the fooking energizer bunny. Lucky us.


Honibaz

[Phatscotty]

?

too many facts and too much common sense. You will not survive long in this forum

And yet here you are, a veritable fountain of verbal flatulence, still waddling around like the fooking energizer bunny. Lucky us.


Honibaz[/quote]




What would I be without my leeches?

please learn how to use to forum soon.

Ta!

[b.k. barunt]

please learn how to use to forum soon.

Ta!

Heh heh, couldn't find an "oh shit! boy did i f*ck that one up" smiley.


Honibaz

[LikeYestrdaysJam]

Um hey so i have many problems with the USA but here is my major issue which i would like to be open for discussion.
The Right To Bear Arms
Now i agree with the Family Guy interpretation that every American has the right to hand a pair of bear arms on there wall.
But seriously does congress not realize the outdated nature of this American Revolution war era right.
The selling of rifles for hunting is one thing but handguns, semi automatic and fully automatic weapons is just outrageous. Do Americans not take notice of the rediculously high levels of death by guns or the fact that they are flooding mexico with guns or good forbid "southerners" owning guns. In australia guns are held only by criminal and gangs and they mostly use them on other criminals with guns there is rarely hold ups with guns and there is certainly no motherfucking emos running around killing 40 people or a disgruntled postal worker. The unavialbility of guns means that kind of shit doesnt happen.
What right to americans have to own pistols and automatic weapons is what i ask you?

Yeah, outdated. Imagine during the Revolutionary War the colonists were armed with nothing but sling-shots against the Red Coats muskets? THAT is what you would like us to "bear arms" with? If they take our guns except for hunting rifles and shotguns we would be NO MATCH for an armed military force patrolling our streets. Think man, THINK!

Seriously i've noticed alot of people saying its fear of invasion from outside source.
How can you seriously believe that is going to happen. America is slowly stockpiling every nuclear weapon on the planet by confiscating it from others and they keep showing their might by invading countries for no reason who do you think will fight the only super power in the world right now and im sure in case of an invasion the army would call up militia and then give them guns.

[Phatscotty]

Going to listen to THIS guy?......

Live, in my metro area, A woman was found stabbed to death in her house and it happened just minutes ago. The killer is on the run and the community is on lock down. A few questions I have for you.

1) If YOU lived in this community, would you prefer to have a gun handy right about now?

No i would not prefer to have a gun, its not neccesary, you can handle a stabber without a gun.

can EVERYONE handle a stabber without a gun? And I guess you do not think these things through, but do criminals usually target someone that looks like they can "handle" the said criminal...with a knife???? I'm pretty sure criminals prey on weaker people.

2) If the woman owned a gun, would her chances of survival be higher?

They might be but the likelyhood is if the woman had a gun the stabber would also have a gun, maybe even a shotgun or something because if she could get a gun so could the killer and he would obvously have the intent to kill her so her having a gun would be nul voided by the killer having a gun.

the STABBER had a KNIFE. That one should be self-explanatory. I do not know why you want to add your own made up stories.

3) If you are lucky enough to NOT have the killer coming down YOUR street, do you hope that the street the killer is on right now has a couple of gun owners?

No i dont the police have guns they can deal with it not some vigilante fuckers who will most probably accidently shoot a kid doing petty theft rather a killer

The police can not be everywhere all the time. The neighborhood is on lockdown, with a killer on the streets, and you think a law-abiding gun owner is walking outside during a lockdown? and into the streets that the police are patrolling? and then furthermore going to shoot a random kid, who is also on the streets with a lockdown in progress?? Wow, so a double murder, completely unrelated, at the exact same time? During a lockdown manhunt? Man, I have seen some stretching, but you can put that Fantastic 4 guy to shame.

4) IF the police DO spot the killer, how likely are the odds the killer will bust into another house and take a hostage?

They are minisclue how will a killer armed with a knife beat the police with handguns into a house to get a hostage the moment they saw him run they would put two into his knees.

So, the police catch the bad guy EVERY SINGLE TIME???? That is what you are arguing buddy! if the Killer is hiding on a balcony he is much closer to the door of a house than the cop on the street.
Is Flash Gordon the Cops in your example, and with a sniper rifle?(in the knees )

Have you ever heard a story about how the police don't show up for 35 minutes?????


You are way out of line. I am not going to sit and call you names, but perhaps you would admit you have a bit more thinking to do before you take a stand on a position? Obviously, you have not even considered a large majority of the information about America's Bill of Rights, and what those rights are.

Of course, you are viewing them as a foreigner, who does not live here.....maybe that's it? What is your media feeding you guys over there? If your government has banned guns, There is no doubt they are constantly re-inforcing in your little zombie minds how good a thing it is to be defenseless, powerless, and dependent on someone else to protect you.

So, has your country ever had an economic problem before? Pretty screwed if police get cut aren't ya? What if nobody want's to be a cop? What if bakers get paid more than cops? Is that the way it will always be?

Check yourself before you wreck yourself. You are pretty much done in this forum. Let the ignores begin!

Dismissed

[b.k. barunt]

Going to listen to THIS guy?......

Live, in my metro area, A woman was found stabbed to death in her house and it happened just minutes ago. The killer is on the run and the community is on lock down. A few questions I have for you.

1) If YOU lived in this community, would you prefer to have a gun handy right about now?

No i would not prefer to have a gun, its not neccesary, you can handle a stabber without a gun.

can EVERYONE handle a stabber without a gun? And I guess you do not think these things through, but do criminals usually target someone that looks like they can "handle" the said criminal...with a knife???? I'm pretty sure criminals prey on weaker people.

2) If the woman owned a gun, would her chances of survival be higher?

They might be but the likelyhood is if the woman had a gun the stabber would also have a gun, maybe even a shotgun or something because if she could get a gun so could the killer and he would obvously have the intent to kill her so her having a gun would be nul voided by the killer having a gun.

the STABBER had a KNIFE. That one should be self-explanatory. I do not know why you want to add your own made up stories.

3) If you are lucky enough to NOT have the killer coming down YOUR street, do you hope that the street the killer is on right now has a couple of gun owners?

No i dont the police have guns they can deal with it not some vigilante fuckers who will most probably accidently shoot a kid doing petty theft rather a killer

The police can not be everywhere all the time. The neighborhood is on lockdown, with a killer on the streets, and you think a law-abiding gun owner is walking outside during a lockdown? and into the streets that the police are patrolling? and then furthermore going to shoot a random kid, who is also on the streets with a lockdown in progress?? Wow, so a double murder, completely unrelated, at the exact same time? During a lockdown manhunt? Man, I have seen some stretching, but you can put that Fantastic 4 guy to shame.

4) IF the police DO spot the killer, how likely are the odds the killer will bust into another house and take a hostage?

They are minisclue how will a killer armed with a knife beat the police with handguns into a house to get a hostage the moment they saw him run they would put two into his knees.

So, the police catch the bad guy EVERY SINGLE TIME???? That is what you are arguing buddy! if the Killer is hiding on a balcony he is much closer to the door of a house than the cop on the street.
Is Flash Gordon the Cops in your example, and with a sniper rifle?(in the knees )

Have you ever heard a story about how the police don't show up for 35 minutes?????


You are way out of line. I am not going to sit and call you names, but perhaps you would admit you have a bit more thinking to do before you take a stand on a position? Obviously, you have not even considered a large majority of the information about America's Bill of Rights, and what those rights are.

Of course, you are viewing them as a foreigner, who does not live here.....maybe that's it? What is your media feeding you guys over there? If your government has banned guns, There is no doubt they are constantly re-inforcing in your little zombie minds how good a thing it is to be defenseless, powerless, and dependent on someone else to protect you.

So, has your country ever had an economic problem before? Pretty screwed if police get cut aren't ya? What if nobody want's to be a cop? What if bakers get paid more than cops? Is that the way it will always be?

Check yourself before you wreck yourself. You are pretty much done in this forum. Let the ignores begin!

Dismissed

Wouldja listen to this blabbering little twatlet? "Pretty much done in this forum"? "Let the ignores begin"? "Dismissed"??? Looks to me like some kind of god complex coupled with a terminal case of diarrhea of the mouth.


Honibaz

[Nobunaga]

... I love guns, but don't want them in the house with my kids yet.

... Hatchet & machete at the ready is what I have. (and I'm quite large, bearded, generally quite frightening to most, that helps).

...

[jaimito101]

The whole idea of fearing for your life and being scared of burglary in a "civilized" country is totally insane. if you believe the problem is there, why dont you try to fix the problem BEFORE it gets into your house or personal space.

it's a pretty sick society you live in if you are expecting crimminals to enter your home, attack, molest and or shoot you and THEREFORE you feel the need to arm yourself.

[jay_a2j]

Yeah, outdated. Imagine during the Revolutionary War the colonists were armed with nothing but sling-shots against the Red Coats muskets? THAT is what you would like us to "bear arms" with? If they take our guns except for hunting rifles and shotguns we would be NO MATCH for an armed military force patrolling our streets. Think man, THINK!

Moot point.

This just means we should be able to buy more and better guns... not less and less effective.

This argument proves the point and the need for increased gun ownership by 'regular' peeps.

Moot point? Then you went on to VALIDATE the point!

I think we may just be on the same side of this issue.

[jay_a2j]

Um hey so i have many problems with the USA but here is my major issue which i would like to be open for discussion.
The Right To Bear Arms
Now i agree with the Family Guy interpretation that every American has the right to hand a pair of bear arms on there wall.
But seriously does congress not realize the outdated nature of this American Revolution war era right.
The selling of rifles for hunting is one thing but handguns, semi automatic and fully automatic weapons is just outrageous. Do Americans not take notice of the rediculously high levels of death by guns or the fact that they are flooding mexico with guns or good forbid "southerners" owning guns. In australia guns are held only by criminal and gangs and they mostly use them on other criminals with guns there is rarely hold ups with guns and there is certainly no motherfucking emos running around killing 40 people or a disgruntled postal worker. The unavialbility of guns means that kind of shit doesnt happen.
What right to americans have to own pistols and automatic weapons is what i ask you?

Yeah, outdated. Imagine during the Revolutionary War the colonists were armed with nothing but sling-shots against the Red Coats muskets? THAT is what you would like us to "bear arms" with? If they take our guns except for hunting rifles and shotguns we would be NO MATCH for an armed military force patrolling our streets. Think man, THINK!

Seriously i've noticed alot of people saying its fear of invasion from outside source.
How can you seriously believe that is going to happen. America is slowly stockpiling every nuclear weapon on the planet by confiscating it from others and they keep showing their might by invading countries for no reason who do you think will fight the only super power in the world right now and im sure in case of an invasion the army would call up militia and then give them guns.

I'm more fearful of a government take over from INSIDE our boarders. A defenseless people will not be able to stop the next Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, etc. who rises to power.

[Pedronicus]

I'm more fearful of a government take over from INSIDE our boarders. A defenseless people will not be able to stop the next Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, etc. who rises to power.

Oh f*ck off Jay.

When Hitler invaded Poland, The English masses did not have guns freely available to them.

Britain declared war, British men signed up to go to war, the Government gave them some green clothes, some guns, knives and grenades. they went to army training learnt how to shoot and were dispatched to fight the Germans.

A fat lot of good it was having all those Americans with guns in 1939. You lot did f*ck all until 1941.

So please drop this NRA bullshit about not being able to stop Stalin unless you're armed. That's what your armed forces are for ffs.

[Genghis Khant]

I'm more fearful of a government take over from INSIDE our borders. A defenceless people will not be able to stop the next Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, etc. who rises to power.

Also, and slightly off-topic, I would hardly group Chavez in with Hitler & Stalin. That just shows up your socialism-is-a-four-letter-word bias. Hugo Chavez may be a mouthy and provocative statesman with a talent for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, but he's less of a threat to world peace & stability than your own "Dubya" Bush was during his term of office.

[Snorri1234]

To sort of echo Snorri, there are people who blame crime in American on the availability of guns, which ignores the actual problems behind crime in the United States (for example, the illegality of drugs, the plight of the poor, cultural factors, etc.) Man, I sound like Player.

Yup, and those people are made fun of by the people who claim there is absolutely nothing wrong with guns in any way. Guns are a problem. It's just that they are a problem because of those things you mention. These people do what they do because for them guns are no problem. They disagree with background checks and permits (though less and less) because for them it is just silly. They are responsible gunowners, their friends are responsible gunowners, they don't see the crimes so they assume that crime is then unaffected by guns.

The whole problem with the debate is that both sides aren't actually talking about the same thing. That's why I like to tell the pro-gun people which way to argue, it makes both sides talk about the same issue instead of two very different issues.

The fact that criminals abuse the Right should in no way diminish or affect My Right.

if you abuse the Right and use a fire arm in the act of a crime you lose (or should lose) the Right. The penalty should be harsh.

If a person uses a steak-knife, bat, weed-whacker, car, etc... to assist in the act of a crime, does that then mean that I should lose my right to these tools?

Of course not.

BTW... Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
(Well if I had one... I don't... but I am considering it.)

Nobody cares about your Right. Any and all discussion on this subject is hypothetical by nature because your guns are never going to be taken away ever. Seriously, they won't be taken away.

[Trephining]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

[Snorri1234]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

Yes and there are people who want to make pedophilia legal too, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

[Trephining]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

Yes and there are people who want to make pedophilia legal too, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The effort and size of the population that would like to take away guns entirely is far larger than that which would like to make pedophilia legal. Surely you admit that.

[spurgistan]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

Yes and there are people who want to make pedophilia legal too, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The effort and size of the population that would like to take away guns entirely is far larger than that which would like to make pedophilia legal. Surely you admit that.

I do admit that. And don't call me Shirley.

[Snorri1234]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

Yes and there are people who want to make pedophilia legal too, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The effort and size of the population that would like to take away guns entirely is far larger than that which would like to make pedophilia legal. Surely you admit that.

Sure.

It's still not a majority of people or even a large enough minority that they could conceivably do anything. The right to bear arms is very well protected.

[Woodruff]

I'm more fearful of a government take over from INSIDE our boarders. A defenseless people will not be able to stop the next Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, etc. who rises to power.

Oh f*ck off Jay.

When Hitler invaded Poland, The English masses did not have guns freely available to them.

Britain declared war, British men signed up to go to war, the Government gave them some green clothes, some guns, knives and grenades. they went to army training learnt how to shoot and were dispatched to fight the Germans.

A fat lot of good it was having all those Americans with guns in 1939. You lot did f*ck all until 1941.

So please drop this NRA bullshit about not being able to stop Stalin unless you're armed. That's what your armed forces are for ffs.

Perhaps you missed the phrase "from INSIDE our boarders" (spelling not mine!)?

[b.k. barunt]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

Yes and there are people who want to make pedophilia legal too, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Well up to 1973 if you would've told me that they'd be legalizing gay marriage i would've said the same thing. Don't forget that NAMBLA marches with a bigass banner in the NYC Gay Parade. You never can tell what's gonna happen in this whacked out country.


Honibaz

[Snorri1234]

There are people who try to take them away. As long as someone is trying to get the government to do that, it is possible that the government will do it.

Yes and there are people who want to make pedophilia legal too, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Well up to 1973 if you would've told me that they'd be legalizing gay marriage i would've said the same thing. Don't forget that NAMBLA marches with a bigass banner in the NYC Gay Parade. You never can tell what's gonna happen in this whacked out country.


Honibaz

It doesn't.

Also, gay marriage being illegal is not in the fucking constitution.

[jay_a2j]

I'm more fearful of a government take over from INSIDE our boarders. A defenseless people will not be able to stop the next Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, etc. who rises to power.

Oh f*ck off Jay.

When Hitler invaded Poland, The English masses did not have guns freely available to them.

Britain declared war, British men signed up to go to war, the Government gave them some green clothes, some guns, knives and grenades. they went to army training learnt how to shoot and were dispatched to fight the Germans.

A fat lot of good it was having all those Americans with guns in 1939. You lot did f*ck all until 1941.

So please drop this NRA bullshit about not being able to stop Stalin unless you're armed. That's what your armed forces are for ffs.

Lets see if you can keep up. England and Hitler has nothing to do with it. Now, had the Germans had the weapons, gonads and resistance to the Nazi rhetoric they might have rose up and stopped Hitler before he could get started. But you take away the people's ability to defend themselves and the government can do whatever it wishes.

[b.k. barunt]

The whole idea of fearing for your life and being scared of burglary in a "civilized" country is totally insane. if you believe the problem is there, why dont you try to fix the problem BEFORE it gets into your house or personal space.

it's a pretty sick society you live in if you are expecting crimminals to enter your home, attack, molest and or shoot you and THEREFORE you feel the need to arm yourself.

I'd say being scared of guns makes a helluva lot less sense than being prepared for what occasionally happens in this country. My house that burnt down was in a nice quiet middle class subdivision, the last three blocks where i lived comprised of at least 2500 sq ft homes. The mother of the family a block away from me was carjacked at the supermarket, driven back to her house and shot in the head.

I'm not "scared" of burglary and i don't fear for my life. I supervised 2 Americorps literacy teams in one of the worst neighborhoods in New Orleans and never carried a gun there except for the time when i promised a crackhead who i got into rehab that i'd check on his house each night - the house was on the corner of the main crack intersection and no whites would drive through that neighborhood at night.

In my home however, where i have the responsibility for the safety of my family, i'd be stupid and cowardly to not be prepared for the unlikely but certainly possible event of a break in. It's never happened yet and probably never will, but it doesn't hurt a damn thing to be prepared.

I don't know whatthefuck you mean about fixing the problem "BEFORE" it gets into my house, unless you're dimwitted enough to think that you or i can "fix" a legal system that concentrates more on pot smokers than violent crime.


Armed and Dangerous Honibaz