Baltic Crusades

[Industrial Helix]

Well, i thought you were doing just fine with this map in terms of graphics and gameplay. Though you needed to make a few things more clear at this stage in gameplay development. I'll see what I can do to help you out.

[theBastard]

Well, i thought you were doing just fine with this map in terms of graphics and gameplay. Though you needed to make a few things more clear at this stage in gameplay development. I'll see what I can do to help you out.

I will try to do graphics better, but my problem is (and therefore I must do new version) that I throw away all previous maps with layers. so it is also difficult to edit anything in the map where are layers grouped...

please be patient, you are as I know from past when you teached me , my real life is going down a little now...

[porkenbeans]

guys, I´m pretty busy at this time, so I also do not know when I will finished new version. I hope this weekend?

pork is graphic master and it looks he has a little more free time now as me, so maybe the Reconquista will be the first...

thanks for kind words and support.

I have graphic changes coming up soon on Reconquesta. Once we settle on a particular style on it, then we can incorporate it into this map as well. If that works.

[natty dread]

Personally, I don't see why the two maps should be anything alike in style.

I like the visual style of this map. It looks old and worn out & faded. The only thing I'd maybe change on this map would be the colour scheme. But even that would only require slight tweaking, perhaps moving some colours around.

However you proceed, I hope your preserve the style and "feel" of this map. It really is nice.

[porkenbeans]

Personally, I don't see why the two maps should be anything alike in style.

I like the visual style of this map. It looks old and worn out & faded. The only thing I'd maybe change on this map would be the colour scheme. But even that would only require slight tweaking, perhaps moving some colours around.

However you proceed, I hope your preserve the style and "feel" of this map. It really is nice.

Bast said somewhere, I believe, that he was originally thinking of a "map pack" of sorts, with these two maps. I will be here to make it so, if he wants.

[theBastard]

I can not change style of map. maybe some things as rivers (Helix so like Reconquista rivers ) and because gameplay of map was a little changed, I also think about few changes for settlements, maybe regions.

what do you not like on colour scheme, natty? are colours too the same, or too different?

pork, it will be great if you can help me with this. yes I thought about map pack, but it is more about idea (crusaders) and gameplay. the regions are different so also graphic style should be diferent.

[Evil DIMwit]

Is there still an update pending for this map? I hope you haven't forgotten about it with the whole Reconquista business.

[theBastard]

Is there still an update pending for this map? I hope you haven't forgotten about it with the whole Reconquista business.

thanks for interest Evil, no I did not forgot but I have not much free time now and unfortunable I lost all Baltic Crisades maps with layers, so it looks that I must do new...

I hope that during next week I can upload new a little edited version...

[theBastard]

here is next version, I only edit some things. I can go with this, I also as natty like old style look so please post your notices what is needed?

-about graphic
-about english
-about explaintation GP
-GP notices
-bonus system

I will soon (today) post also starting positions with army numbers, but this depends of GP notices...

thanks.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

I think the pagan/christian bonus is also problematic here. The -1 for holding two pagans or two christians is unnecessary... Just make it so that christian + pagan gives +1, but 2 christians or 2 pagans gives no bonus.

Also, the rivers are hard to see wherever they border grey land. Make the water colour darker perhaps?

The bridges look funny. Why are they black?

It's still hard to see the Livonian bonus areas. You need to differentiate them more, a lot. The same goes for Pomerania, Poland and (to a lesser extent) Lithuania.

[theBastard]

I think the pagan/christian bonus is also problematic here. The -1 for holding two pagans or two christians is unnecessary... Just make it so that christian + pagan gives +1, but 2 christians or 2 pagans gives no bonus.

sounds good.

Also, the rivers are hard to see wherever they border grey land. Make the water colour darker perhaps?

I will try it, maybe a little more blue colour for rivers?

The bridges look funny. Why are they black?

I do not know , just I saw this in some maps... grey/brown will be better?

It's still hard to see the Livonian bonus areas. You need to differentiate them more, a lot. The same goes for Pomerania, Poland and (to a lesser extent) Lithuania.

no problem to do higher bonuses darker...

thanks natty.

[theBastard]

I did some changes. bridges are grey/brown now, rivers have more blue colour, bonus for christian/pagan symbol changed, colours of higher bonuses are darker now.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Looks better. Perhaps you could make mazovia & west pomerania just a tiny bit darker still, but they are already quite good.

Yeah, you're going to need more contrast between the water and land. This is even more important when part of the water (rivers) serves as impassables.

There are numerous ways to achieve contrast. I'll list some of them here:

1) dark-bright (luminosity) contrast. One area is dark, one area is bright. This is what you already use on some bonus areas though.

2) saturation contrast. One area is saturated (bright and strong colours) and other desaturated, more towards gray, faded colours.

3) focus (sharpness) contrast. One area is sharp, the other blurry.

4) opposite colour contrasts. There are 2 ways of determining opposite colours: by the additive (RGB) scheme or the substractive (CMYK or RBY) scheme. By the RGB scheme the opposite colours are: red <-> cyan, green <-> purple/violet and blue <-> yellow. By the substractive scheme (this is what is mostly used in classic (non-computerized) art) the opposite colours are red <-> green, blue <-> orange and yellow <-> purple.

[theBastard]

all your advices are hard for me to understand exactly. but I will try anything...

Helix, you teach me to use Photoshop from start, maybe you could a little help me with explaintation...?

natty I´ve tried something. maybe it is not good, look:

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

I'm not sure if the bevels fit this map... This should look more like an old map drawn on paper, and bevels spoil this image...

Try swapping the colours of Estonia and the water.

[theBastard]

you are right, the "plastic" look seems not fine. I can not find in PS what you wrote me... but, natty I have several old maps and there rivers have no contrast (mountains, for example yes - usualy shadows so they looks plastic).

I will wait for Helix if he gives me again any help as usualy

[natty dread]

I have several old maps and there rivers have no contrast

Be it as may, gameplay clarity / legibility is more important than authenticity.

[theBastard]

I add more brightness to rivers and sea.

Click image to enlarge.

[MarshalNey]

Looking good.

For the victory objective, Ender pointed out earlier that the English here is slightly ambiguous (fuzzy). His proposed wording was an improvement but I think his secondary proposal of inserting "all" would be best. I think capitalizing the word "or" for emphasis would help, as well as coloring the relevant objective points in the sentence. Plus, by moving a comma you could make the already good grammar more explicit.

The absolute easiest read would be this:

"To win, hold both Grunwald and either:
1) All Teutonic Strongholds, OR
2) All Polish-Lithuanian Strongholds"

But to save on space, the other, subtler way would be to move a comma:
"To win hold Grunwald, and either all Teutonic Strongholds OR all Polish-Lithuanian Strongholds."


For the bonus on the Hanseatic Towns, the two separate bonus conditions run together. I'd just use some carriage returns to make it more readable while (hopefully) using the same amount of space like so:
"Hanseatic Town
Autodeploys each turn +1 bonus
+1 for every 2 held if you also hold Visby"

These are small things, overall the map gameplay is pretty clear.

The only other thing that worries me is the colors on the legend compared to the map. The color for the order of the Teutonic Knights, for example, blends almost completely into the background for the legend. Maybe you could put a border around the legend colors (like dark gray/black)? Also, it might help to show the color for the territories that are not part of any bonus area and state that fact; such as putting the color and then saying, "not part of any bonus area"

[theBastard]

I edited map by yours advices Marshal. I colored legend areas to white, I hope it is better now.

Click image to enlarge.

[Industrial Helix]

I think you're super-bonuses are too high. And by superbonuses I mean "Kingdom of Lithuania", "Teutonic Order" ect.

Reduce Livonia by 2
Reduce Teutonic Order by 1
Reduce Poland by 2

Other than that the bonuses look solid.

Out of curiosity, why is Visby so important to the Hanseatic League?

[theBastard]

I think you're super-bonuses are too high. And by superbonuses I mean "Kingdom of Lithuania", "Teutonic Order" ect.

Reduce Livonia by 2
Reduce Teutonic Order by 1
Reduce Poland by 2

I did not much edits in bonuses. I wait for feedbacks, so I will edit them by yours...

Other than that the bonuses look solid.

thanks. and thanks that Baltic Crusades map is here

Out of curiosity, why is Visby so important to the Hanseatic League?

Visby was the most important trade center in Baltic area before Hansa and from here Skandinavian merchants become to Estonia and Russia. when Hanseatic league was established, only after treaty with Visby it lead business in Baltic area, and Hansa merchants gain acess to Russian trade station. also during Hanseatic domination was Visby important crossroad.

and for GP I did Visby so important, because it stays a little of map.

[theBastard]

I have several questions:

1, I want to have superbonuses higher as normal bonuses together. so: Sword Brethren +3, Terra Mariana +2 is together +5, so Livonian Confederation must be minimum +6. this mean that maybe we must reduce all bonuses?
2, must I explain somewhere that when player get superbonus he lost normal bonuses which makes this superbonus?
3, about Visby, is the roads now fine? I mean that now player who holds Visby must just secure Gotland - so what about to do one road to Gotland and one to Visby? than Visby will be possible conquer by two ways...

[Industrial Helix]

1) I'd advise you do not add in any more bonuses.

2) Yes, just find a corner to write it in.

3) I think all routes ought to connect to Gotland instead of Visby because of the difficulty of taking a town by sea rather than landing somewhere safe and proceeding to the town.

[theBastard]

1) I'd advise you do not add in any more bonuses.

2) Yes, just find a corner to write it in.

3) I think all routes ought to connect to Gotland instead of Visby because of the difficulty of taking a town by sea rather than landing somewhere safe and proceeding to the town.

1, I can not have more bonuses, I just want if player holds Terra Mariana together with Sword Brethren it gives him +5 (Terra Mariana +2, Sword Brethren +3), so superbonus Livonian Confederation must be higher = +6 or +7.

2, ok.

3, sorry I do not exactly understand. you mean that now it is good or add routes directly to Visby?

Helix, if I good remember you had any notice against trees. what is wrong with them?