What makes a good map?

[Industrial Helix]

I've got a little late night insomnia and taking off from MrBenn's post, what makes a map good or bad?

Which of CC's maps are your favorite and why are they good maps? Are the gameplay experiences you get on those maps any different than a gameplay experience you could get on any other map?

I guess my favorite maps would be:
Feudal War, easy to read and lots of analysis on whether your opponents are going to be able to break through the stack of men and eliminate you or not. Even better with teams. The strategy is easy to understand and its fun to speculate and guess what you're opponent is thinking.

Pelopennesian WarSee above.

Battle for Iraq: Lots of ways to win and plenty of speculation as to what you're opponents are doing, once you understand the general strategy. Has lots of room for innovative strategies.

Eastern Hemisphere: Makes me feel like I'm running an Empire in the 19th Century, which is mostly successful graphics because you could make a non-imperial themed geographic map with the same connections but it wouldn't be the same.

Luxembourg Lots of careful thinking and big chance of making a misstep because of the size of the map. Requires different strategy thinking than with big maps and its nice to have the change.

Rail USABest map of my homeland, imo. It conveys the cities and the size of the USA very well and with cool rail names makes it feel like you've got a good sampling of culture in there as well... too bad our real rail system is nowhere near as cool.

Europe 1914: I just like playing the Empires of pre-wwi and the map conveys Europe of the period very well. I like how Germany's dilemma is replicated.

Charleston Choke points, great for battle of attrition style war.

8 Thoughts The Symmetry works real well and the general strategy needed to win is easy to grasp.

Conclusions: It all depends on whether or not a player can come to a logical conclusion on what the best strategy is for the map. Once that basic strategy is grasped, the map becomes much more fun because you can start to read your opponents and follow their intentions.

Graphics are also key in that they need to make you feel like you're set in a situation that the map purports to represent.

This all seems kind of basic I guess, but I figure its worth talking about.

[fumandomuerte]

The gameplay!, that's the only answer that I can think of.
Thanks Mibi & WidowMakers for the Arms Race! map.
Thanks qwerty for the Peloponnesian War.
Thanks gimil, yeti_c & DiM for Feudal War.

You guys made my 3 favourite maps on this site

[army of nobunaga]

Simple + unique + a little beauty = perfect


MAdagascar
13 colonies
feudal
Brazil
Austerlitz
Berlin
high seas
cairns coast



these are great maps

-----
the bad

Age of doodoo maps... (todos)
well im not going to list the bad.. there is no point.


thanx for the topic.

[The Bison King]

World 2.1: I know super obvious right? but it's dead on! perfect!

Eastern Hemishpere: This is just a great map. It's a great part of the world to feature, the home of almost all the great empires of history. It looks amazing. The game play is simple and straight forward. The addition of the colony bonuses gives just enough of an edge to player who start out scattered and unconnected. I have resorted to that a few times, and even if you are doing well it gives you just enough of an extra element to change how you might choose to expand. My only complaint about this map is that I think the Russian Empire should be split into a European bonus and an Asian bonus. As it is it is just too big and hard to hold. I have played the map quite a few times and I have never once seen that bonus held.
I'm not crazy about Naval superiority either but it rarely ever gets used any way.

Japan: It's new so I haven't played many games on it, but I have really enjoyed the games that I have. It just looks good too. I am a very visual person so the map looking good is like 70% of the battle to me.

New World: Like Eastern hemisphere just an awesome subsection of the world to isolate. I like the homeland system on this map. It's unique but not complicated. It forces you to play a different way without having to re-learn the whole game.

Indian Empire & Middle East: They both just look good and are well balanced, nothing else needed.

USA Great Lakes: I know I said aesthetics were like 70% to me so that's why I think this is a notable favorite map of mine. I don't think this map looks very good at all (no offense to the creator.) I don't like how the states don't touch and I think that the little cheeses, cars, fish, drawn into the backgrounds of the states are stupid. Again no offense, because it is a great map! I love it. I love taking the major cities and connecting the highways. There's so much room to move around and expand. Also I've been to almost all the places on the map, but that's a more personal reason. I love the whole USA road map collective but this one is by far the best!

Last one

Third Crusade: This is the only "more complicated" map that makes it into my top favorites. I usually don't go for maps with a victory condition but it's clear to me that a lot of thought and effort was put into balancing this map out. It's not an easy objective to meet, and half the time you can just end up winning the old fashioned way any way, but it's the journey there that makes it so fun. Does slow and steady win the race? or do you take an chance and try and grab the condition when you think you can hold it? It's a tough call. If you go for it to early and devote too many troops to holding it, you can really shoot yourself in the foot if you fail. There's a lot of dynamic to this map!

Summation:

Aesthetics are incredibly important. The Game play must be balanced. Uniqueness and originality ad a nice flavor but the balance is what really makes a map solid!

[The Bison King]

Is no one else going to post of this thread???? I thought this was a good topic.

[jrh_cardinal]

I'll post

Feudal Epic: quickly becoming one of my favorite multiplayer maps on the site, it's much better than Feudal War (which is still a good map) because you HAVE to attack, and know exactly when to attack, if you wan to win. Feudal War, because there is a back entrance to each castle, it is often a stupid idea to attack even in 1v1 (the big problem with AOR1 as well), and I hate build games, but in Epic, there is still a balance. Etween attacking and defending, it's just that attacking is always a part of the game, especially at the beginning. I also like how there are like chunks of 2 castles with 1 center (village) area, it breaks the map down nicely into 4 basically even quadrants.

American Civil War: Easily my favorite 1v1 map, I like how it is a relatively basic map with a few twists. Often on simpler maps, you want to stay out of the center, but on this the center is often the most important part (of 1v1). This is also a good 2v2 map, with often the same basic strategy as 1v1.

World 2.1: I haven't played very much i a while because I lost like 100000000 8 man games in a row after succeeding pretty well when I first started playing it, but it is still a perfect 8 man standard game map, preferably esc freestyle (when I can devote the time necessary for freestyle) but other settings work well too.

Berlin: honestly, I've only played it like 5 times, a couple 1v1's, a couple 2v2's, but I think I 'm undefeated on it, or at least close. This is a beautiful 2v2 map for sort of the same reason as I like Civil War, a relatively simple map with a nice little twist added in.

Honorable mentions:
Classic: You've just gotta love the Classics
City Mogul: I suck major a**hole at this map, but a good idea
Circus Maximus: a fun change from time to time
Small Maps (Lux, Doodle, Madagascar, Egypt: Lower, Circus): same reason as just Circus, a fun change occasionally

I think that's about it, hope I'm not forgetting any great ones

[natty dread]

Some of my favorite maps...

Alexander's empire: simple, balanced, easy - a good map for escalating. I don't really know what exactly it is about the gameplay of this map but it works. There are no tricks or gimmicks, just really good gameplay.

WWII: Poland: a really fun, dynamic and innovative map. Places the focus of the entire map on one territory, which all players contend for. There are many different strategies for this map, and many ways to win.

New World: this is how conquest maps should be made. Every starting position is very different and forces players to adjust their strategies depending on where they get dropped. Yet the map manages to be fairly balanced. A genius map.

Japan & Monsters: Both of these maps are very different, but what I like about them both is that they are tricky when it comes to eliminations (although for slightly different reasons: Japan has lots of bottlenecks and funky geography, Monsters is just plain funky) and you have to plan them out carefully. One mistake and you are toast...


there are many more maps that I like, but it would just get repetitive...

[army of nobunaga]

Since I first posted on this topic, I have thought a lot about it.

You know what really epitomizes the perfect map to me? Duck and Cover. Its simple yet deep. It has some unique features. And its pretty cool artwork. The turtle always makes me chuckle.

You dont have to decode a new language to play it. You dont have to worry about someone getting a cheap auto win right at the last second on freestyle. It plays well under EVERY setting. And honestly, its just fun.


And I agree with you on WWII poland natty.. not so much on that monsters thing.

[Industrial Helix]

Monsters is interesting but I misfired my elimination strike and ended up in a sort of brain damaged position in the game... you know, where you're too weak to do anything but sit and stack but you still gotta take your turn?

[shakeycat]

Charleston. It has a clear layout, simple bonus structure with both minimap and names. Nothing complicated, no compounding bonuses. No surprises. And the graphics are very easy on the eyes, with bold yet pleasing colours, all unique from one another. Connections allow easy sweeping.

NYC has a similar boldness, and its compound bonuses don't often come into play. The train lines aren't initially noticed by first time players, and make for more interesting play.

Treasures of Galapagos is less scary than Age of Realms for me, because one cannot just stack on a castle, but is forced to venture out of the reefs. Perhaps it's the girl in me that prefers cutesy little seals and turtles as well, it's less serious.


Other favourites are Caribbean Islands, 13 Colonies, American Civil War, Eastern Hemisphere [many bonus options, easy to sneak around], First Nations of NA, High Seas, North America, Oasis [for objective based win], Route 66 [ditto], USA map pack, World 2.1 [lots of options for an opening bonus], Great Lakes, Solar System. All of these are really clear maps. I also like somewhat large maps, though not to the degree of Hive.

I find the smaller maps all quite similar, and don't tend to play them: Germany, Brazil, Ireland, Iberia. It's not even worth going for a bonus in these, just wipe the other guy out instead. Iceland is similar size but different in gameplay, since bonuses are easier to hold. Italy is more interesting because of its city bonuses.

Maps I avoid are the ones I don't understand, or that I am concerned someone else may understand better and farm me on. It doesn't help when you can be dead meat after Round 1 as well.

I like maps with many small bonus options, or bonuses that grow on you. The first player should not hold any unnecessary advantage. They need to be clearly laid out, with pleasing design and clear instructions. And if they're unclear, let it be something I can capitalize on!

[oaktown]

I won't get into specific maps, just wanted to say that a good map is one in which every game is different. In my opinion a map shouldn't have one advantageous starting area, nor should there be a sure-fire strategy for winning on a map. In the case of the former, the winner is determined by luck of the drop. In the case of the latter, the winner is determined by who has played the map enough to know what route to take to victory. Rather, any player should be able to play a map with any type of drop and win or lose based on their in-game decisions and their luck with the dice.

What makes a good map a great map is that it does this and has some spiffy graphics to boot; easy on the eye, connects you with the theme, connections and play features are clear, etc.

I hope I've accomplished all of this with at least some of my maps; I appreciate the kind comments about Eastern Hemisphere, Berlin, Duck & Cover, India, Route 66, and High Seas. Odd that nobody commented on Chinese Checkers.

[natty dread]

Well said oaktown