NAACP Cries Racist at the Tea Party

[Night Strike]

(2) The Tea Party organizations should get together, pick a committee, and denounce racist elements in a public document.

Already has been done by the Tea Party Federation, a cross-country coalition of Tea Party groups.

Quick, where's Gator to moan about how Night Strike is dishonestly misrepresenting a statement by showing only selectively edited chunks of it!!!

I quoted the exact section YOU REQUESTED and you have the audacity to say I am being dishonest by editing?? Amazing. Regardless, I gave you the link to the full article, so you have no right to complain as I was making sure you read the exact part I was referencing.

So someone asked for a link to the resolution itself and, instead of doing that, you linked us to a FOX NEWS ARTICLE? Egads, man.

To be fair to both sides, we have no idea what the NAACP's resolution will say because they won't actually write it until October. I don't understand how you can approve a resolution before writing it, but whatever. The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

[Night Strike]

Also, does anybody else think that it's strange that Night Strike suddenly chose to omit a section of that Fox News article which he found fit to include on the first page (before being forced to concede that the TP did indeed harbour racist elements)?

Hey, tell you what, let me point you to it:

Hilary Shelton, senior vice president of advocacy and policy for the NAACP, said the group has serious concerns about Tea Party behavior. He referenced an incident in March when Tea Party protesters allegedly hurled racial epithets at black lawmakers on Capitol Hill ahead of a health care vote.

"The Tea Party needs to denounce those racist elements within the Tea Party," Shelton told Fox News.

In regards to the incident Hilary Shelton is referencing, THERE ARE NO RACIST ELEMENTS IN THIS CASE WHEN NO ONE CAN PROVIDE PROOF OF THESE RACIAL EPITHETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Woodruff]

To be fair to both sides, we have no idea what the NAACP's resolution will say because they won't actually write it until October. I don't understand how you can approve a resolution before writing it, but whatever.

I agree...that doesn't even make sense to me if it's accurate. Anyone know the "why" behind this?

The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

[Woodruff]

Also, does anybody else think that it's strange that Night Strike suddenly chose to omit a section of that Fox News article which he found fit to include on the first page (before being forced to concede that the TP did indeed harbour racist elements)?

Hey, tell you what, let me point you to it:

Hilary Shelton, senior vice president of advocacy and policy for the NAACP, said the group has serious concerns about Tea Party behavior. He referenced an incident in March when Tea Party protesters allegedly hurled racial epithets at black lawmakers on Capitol Hill ahead of a health care vote.

"The Tea Party needs to denounce those racist elements within the Tea Party," Shelton told Fox News.

In regards to the incident Hilary Shelton is referencing, THERE ARE NO RACIST ELEMENTS IN THIS CASE WHEN NO ONE CAN PROVIDE PROOF OF THESE RACIAL EPITHETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still...this was a quote from the senior Vice President of advocacy and policy for the NAACP. That would be someone who would probably be pretty involved in the NAACP's policy, right? And she specifically referenced only "those racist elements within", rather than the entire Tea Party (the specific matter at hand being irrelevant to the point I am making).

[Night Strike]

To be fair to both sides, we have no idea what the NAACP's resolution will say because they won't actually write it until October. I don't understand how you can approve a resolution before writing it, but whatever.

I agree...that doesn't even make sense to me if it's accurate. Anyone know the "why" behind this?

My assumption is that it's politically motivated to publish another accusation of racism in the Tea Party right before the mid-term election. Or it could just be their normal operating procedure because the meeting in Kansas City was an annual meeting, not just a special resolution call/vote.

The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

When a business matter is brought to the table, it has to be read as to what it says before debate can open on the matter. My guess is that the original language included the part quoted in the news article about the entire organization being racist, and after the external uproar over the language, it was amended to refer to only the elements. I doubt there will ever be a copy of the original resolution language unless the NAACP publishes it in their meeting's minutes (no clue if they normally do that or not).

[King Doctor]

I quoted the exact section YOU REQUESTED and you have the audacity to say I am being dishonest by editing?? Amazing.

No you didn't, so no it's not.

But again, don't let inconvenient facts get in the way of having a good rant and a froth.

[King Doctor]

In regards to the incident Hilary Shelton is referencing, THERE ARE NO RACIST ELEMENTS IN THIS CASE WHEN NO ONE CAN PROVIDE PROOF OF THESE RACIAL EPITHETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahh yes, we're back to pretending that the entire issue hinges on a single event. Again, no Gator to moan about the intellectual dishonesty this time I suspect.


Anyway, once you've re-located your caps-lock button, you should probably go take an amble through Pimpdaves, extremely helpful, 'Racist Tea Party Placards' thread. Perhaps then you can come back and engage in some slightly saner dialogue with us.

[Night Strike]

I quoted the exact section YOU REQUESTED and you have the audacity to say I am being dishonest by editing?? Amazing.

No you didn't, so no it's not.

But again, don't let inconvenient facts get in the way of having a good rant and a froth.

I made the statement the resolution's language originally said the entire organization was racist. You called it "rubbish" and a "falsehood", asking me to provide a link with proof while you also claimed they only ever denounced racial elements. I provided a quotation that supported my position and you claimed I was selectively editing. I'm glad most of the members of this forum are smarter than you because you have clearly shown yourself to be a person who dismisses a logical sequence of argumentation in an effort to try to discredit me. Debate the point or leave the thread as it's obvious that right now you're just avoiding/ignoring the evidence you asked for.

[Woodruff]

The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

When a business matter is brought to the table, it has to be read as to what it says before debate can open on the matter. My guess is that the original language included the part quoted in the news article about the entire organization being racist, and after the external uproar over the language, it was amended to refer to only the elements. I doubt there will ever be a copy of the original resolution language unless the NAACP publishes it in their meeting's minutes (no clue if they normally do that or not).

Ok, let me be clear here...YOU are stating that it is a fact that the NAACP made the statement about the entire Tea Party organization. So far, I have seen no proof of this from you or anyone else. Did you have some?

[King Doctor]

I made the statement the resolution's language originally said the entire organization was racist. You called it "rubbish" and a "falsehood", asking me to provide a link with proof while you also claimed they only ever denounced racial elements.

So far so good...

I provided a quotation that supported my position and you claimed I was selectively editing.

... because it was a quotation you had selectively edited from a wider article (which was, itself, an edited secondary source).

i.e. I was quite justified in saying precisely that, as the quotation that I supplied from the wider article (which undermined your position almost entirely) demonstrated.

I'm glad most of the members of this forum are smarter than you because you have clearly shown yourself to be a person who dismisses a logical sequence of argumentation in an effort to try to discredit me. Debate the point or leave the thread as it's obvious that right now you're just avoiding/ignoring the evidence you asked for.

Ahh yes, bluster and anger, always a sign that somebody is doing well.

Your problem, Nighty, is that you don't actually appear to be able to construct logical sequences of argumentation. Hence, you cannot recognise them when they come from others. All you see is conclusions that you agree with, and conclusions that you disagree with; you mistake the former for 'logic' and the latter for 'everything else'. Which is why you're always unable to rise beyond the mere partisan level of debates.

[Phatscotty]

The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

When a business matter is brought to the table, it has to be read as to what it says before debate can open on the matter. My guess is that the original language included the part quoted in the news article about the entire organization being racist, and after the external uproar over the language, it was amended to refer to only the elements. I doubt there will ever be a copy of the original resolution language unless the NAACP publishes it in their meeting's minutes (no clue if they normally do that or not).

Ok, let me be clear here...YOU are stating that it is a fact that the NAACP made the statement about the entire Tea Party organization. So far, I have seen no proof of this from you or anyone else. Did you have some?

yes but only a retard would disagree (especially one who visits bumpage) that the overall intent is indeed to paint the entire tea party as racist.

It's like, the oldest trick in the book, for reals.

[Woodruff]

The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

When a business matter is brought to the table, it has to be read as to what it says before debate can open on the matter. My guess is that the original language included the part quoted in the news article about the entire organization being racist, and after the external uproar over the language, it was amended to refer to only the elements. I doubt there will ever be a copy of the original resolution language unless the NAACP publishes it in their meeting's minutes (no clue if they normally do that or not).

Ok, let me be clear here...YOU are stating that it is a fact that the NAACP made the statement about the entire Tea Party organization. So far, I have seen no proof of this from you or anyone else. Did you have some?

yes but only a retard would disagree (especially one who visits bumpage) that the overall intent is indeed to paint the entire tea party as racist.
It's like, the oldest trick in the book, for reals.

You mean that stating lies and then not supporting them with facts when you get called on it isn't the oldest trick in the book? Because it would seem to be older, and it would seem to be the one the other side is utilizing here (which you don't seem to mind, interestingly enough). Either the NAACP did as Night Strike and others have claimed or they did not. Prove which it is, or anyone wiht any sense (apparently, not your retards) must conclude that they did not.

[Nobunaga]

The matter they were debating originally stated that the entire Tea Party was a racist organization. They apparently toned that down to racist elements when voting, but no one will know for sure until it's published.

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

When a business matter is brought to the table, it has to be read as to what it says before debate can open on the matter. My guess is that the original language included the part quoted in the news article about the entire organization being racist, and after the external uproar over the language, it was amended to refer to only the elements. I doubt there will ever be a copy of the original resolution language unless the NAACP publishes it in their meeting's minutes (no clue if they normally do that or not).

Ok, let me be clear here...YOU are stating that it is a fact that the NAACP made the statement about the entire Tea Party organization. So far, I have seen no proof of this from you or anyone else. Did you have some?

yes but only a retard would disagree (especially one who visits bumpage) that the overall intent is indeed to paint the entire tea party as racist.

It's like, the oldest trick in the book, for reals.

I absolutely agree. The NAACP has taken very public issue with the "racist elements" (as yet not at all clearly defined), painting the entire movement along with these so-called "elements". Sure, most folks who bother to pay attention will know better, but unfortunately most folks in the US are just too damned ignorant and too damned busy watching their reality TV.

Can the statement be clearly and inarguably connected with political motive? No. But one has to wonder why the tea parties were singled out if not in fact for very political reasons.

<EDIT> Perhaps publicly denouncing the racist elements within the NAACP is in order.

[gatoraubrey2]

I can only post so often on intellectual dishonesty, guys. Some of us have to work

I'm not really clear, though, Doc, on why you think Night Strike's being dishonest by posting the sentence from the article that supports his point. I read the article, and it doesn't look as though any of it conflicts with the sentence that he chose. My understanding of the article was that the original statement from the NAACP accused the entire Tea Party of racism, but it was later amended to denounce only the racist elements, not the entire organization. I thought that was the point he was arguing. What did I miss?

[Woodruff]

I can only post so often on intellectual dishonesty, guys. Some of us have to work

I'm not really clear, though, Doc, on why you think Night Strike's being dishonest by posting the sentence from the article that supports his point. I read the article, and it doesn't look as though any of it conflicts with the sentence that he chose. My understanding of the article was that the original statement from the NAACP accused the entire Tea Party of racism, but it was later amended to denounce only the racist elements, not the entire organization. I thought that was the point he was arguing. What did I miss?

The same thing we all have missed...the proof.

[gatoraubrey2]

I can only post so often on intellectual dishonesty, guys. Some of us have to work

I'm not really clear, though, Doc, on why you think Night Strike's being dishonest by posting the sentence from the article that supports his point. I read the article, and it doesn't look as though any of it conflicts with the sentence that he chose. My understanding of the article was that the original statement from the NAACP accused the entire Tea Party of racism, but it was later amended to denounce only the racist elements, not the entire organization. I thought that was the point he was arguing. What did I miss?

The same thing we all have missed...the proof.

"Repudiate the racism of the Tea Parties" sounds like proof of his point that the initial statement condemned the entire movement. Do you disagree? Or are you saying that FOX has not provided proof that this was in the original statement?

[john9blue]

How do we know that's what it stated if they haven't published it yet? I haven't seen a single thing from the NAACP stating that they considered the entire Tea Party to be a racist organization. Can you point me to somewhere they have?

When a business matter is brought to the table, it has to be read as to what it says before debate can open on the matter. My guess is that the original language included the part quoted in the news article about the entire organization being racist, and after the external uproar over the language, it was amended to refer to only the elements. I doubt there will ever be a copy of the original resolution language unless the NAACP publishes it in their meeting's minutes (no clue if they normally do that or not).

Ok, let me be clear here...YOU are stating that it is a fact that the NAACP made the statement about the entire Tea Party organization. So far, I have seen no proof of this from you or anyone else. Did you have some?

yes but only a retard would disagree (especially one who visits bumpage) that the overall intent is indeed to paint the entire tea party as racist.

It's like, the oldest trick in the book, for reals.

I absolutely agree. The NAACP has taken very public issue with the "racist elements" (as yet not at all clearly defined), painting the entire movement along with these so-called "elements". Sure, most folks who bother to pay attention will know better, but unfortunately most folks in the US are just too damned ignorant and too damned busy watching their reality TV.

Can the statement be clearly and inarguably connected with political motive? No. But one has to wonder why the tea parties were singled out if not in fact for very political reasons.

<EDIT> Perhaps publicly denouncing the racist elements within the NAACP is in order.

wtf where are the ellipses

[Woodruff]

I can only post so often on intellectual dishonesty, guys. Some of us have to work

I'm not really clear, though, Doc, on why you think Night Strike's being dishonest by posting the sentence from the article that supports his point. I read the article, and it doesn't look as though any of it conflicts with the sentence that he chose. My understanding of the article was that the original statement from the NAACP accused the entire Tea Party of racism, but it was later amended to denounce only the racist elements, not the entire organization. I thought that was the point he was arguing. What did I miss?

The same thing we all have missed...the proof.

"Repudiate the racism of the Tea Parties" sounds like proof of his point that the initial statement condemned the entire movement. Do you disagree? Or are you saying that FOX has not provided proof that this was in the original statement?

How do you believe that Fox has provided any sort of proof? They CLAIMED that's what the original statement said. Do you seriously equate that with proof?

[Night Strike]

How do you believe that Fox has provided any sort of proof? They CLAIMED that's what the original statement said. Do you seriously equate that with proof?

I found two stories from the Kansas City Star, the largest print-media source in KC where the NAACP Convention was held. The first gives a quote of the language of the original resolution, while the second indicates the resolution was amended.

The resolution, scheduled for a vote as early as Tuesday by delegates attending the annual NAACP convention in Kansas City, calls upon “all people of good will to repudiate the racism of the Tea Parties, and to stand in opposition to its drive to push our country back to the pre-civil rights era.”

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/07/11/20 ... t-tea.html

Delegates said, however, that they wanted to make it clear the resolution wasn’t intended to indict the entire tea party movement as racist. The resolution was amended to include the word “some” tea party supporters.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/07/13/20 ... acism.html

[gatoraubrey2]

How do you believe that Fox has provided any sort of proof? They CLAIMED that's what the original statement said. Do you seriously equate that with proof?

I was trying to figure out where your disagreement arose. I now know that it stems from the fact that you don't believe that FOX has proof that the original statement did contain those phrases.

I don't equate FOX news with absolute proof, no. I will try (when I'm not at work) to find further proof. However, with the NAACP website acknowledging that their statement was amended, but not providing the original text, it looks like it will be a struggle to find the initial statement. It seems as though they don't want to share it, at least.

Hopefully another news organization that you will find acceptable did a story on the original statement, before it was changed. We shall see...

[Night Strike]

Hopefully another news organization that you will find acceptable did a story on the original statement, before it was changed. We shall see...

I posted the Kansas City Star in the post above yours. They were probably one of the main on-site news outlets actually in attendance since the Convention was in Kansas City.

[gatoraubrey2]

Hopefully another news organization that you will find acceptable did a story on the original statement, before it was changed. We shall see...

I posted the Kansas City Star in the post above yours. They were probably one of the main on-site news outlets actually in attendance since the Convention was in Kansas City.

I haven't had the time to review the full articles yet, so I don't want to comment on them. And I would love to have a video or original print statement that directly shows the NAACP making those statements, as those would be the most absolute form of proof.

[PLAYER57832]

I see, so 3 days BEFORE the Tea Party ejected a racist group, the NAACP makes statements that the Tea Party includes racists, and that is reason to consider the NAACP racist?

Well, either the original NAACP accusation was correct OR the Tea Party ousting that group was racist/unfounded/etc.

No, the NAACP originally put forward language that the entire organization was racist. That has apparently been toned down (they haven't published the official statement - how that works I have no idea), but it's irrelevant. The Tea Party Federation found out that one of their member groups was breaking the rules, so they expelled them. And they would have expelled them even if the NAACP had said nothing.

If the Tea Party knew they were racist and ignored them, then it implicates the party-- the leadership/direction, though (no one is saying every Tea Party member is racist, though some conservatives like to claim that has been the accusation). IN the past, the Tea Party has dismissed any such claims by saying that they were not a group and did not control everyone who used their name (essentially, that was the argument). Legitimate or not, it definitely left the Tea Party open to the "racist" accusation.

Now, they have finally ousted at least one racist player. Fine. Hopefully, this is an indication of their future, that they will continue to work hard to distance themselves from racism and racists, much as most any other group does.

YOUR claim that the NAACP is "racist" because, a few days BEFORE the ouster of said racist, the NAACP made comments about Tea Party racist elements indicates a strong desire on your part to simply attack and to ignore evidence.

AND, your claim that the ouster was "not in response to the NAACP comment" is irrelevant, at best. My statement was not that the NAACP caused the Tea Party to evict the guy, it was that their comment came prior to the Tea Party ousting the guy and therefore, their assert of racists in the Tea Party was fully accurate. Beyond that, your claim that the statement and response are unrelated is likely not entirely true, either -- that is, I am sure there was attention prior to that particular statement, but the pressure to show themselves as non-racist has been persistant and is almost certainly part of why they did take action.

[PLAYER57832]

Two things:

(1) The Tea Party is not one party, it is multiple movements. There are at least 30 Tea Party organizations in the Philadelphia area.

(2) The Tea Party organizations should get together, pick a committee, and denounce racist elements in a public document.

Then maybe people will leave the Tea Party organizations alone (with respect to racism at least).

If they follow it up with continued action, much as any other organization has done/does.. then, yes.

[PLAYER57832]

How do you believe that Fox has provided any sort of proof? They CLAIMED that's what the original statement said. Do you seriously equate that with proof?

I was trying to figure out where your disagreement arose. I now know that it stems from the fact that you don't believe that FOX has proof that the original statement did contain those phrases.

I don't equate FOX news with absolute proof, no. I will try (when I'm not at work) to find further proof. However, with the NAACP website acknowledging that their statement was amended, but not providing the original text, it looks like it will be a struggle to find the initial statement. It seems as though they don't want to share it, at least.

Hopefully another news organization that you will find acceptable did a story on the original statement, before it was changed. We shall see...

Given that Fox is the one posting the NAACP video of the ousted Agricultural secretary (though they have since apologized for that), I would say we have reason to doubt Fox's intent on this issue.

However, that whole line of debate is rather besides the point. If an organization knows it has racists and doesn't do a thing about it, then they are, by implication a harbinger of racism. In this case, it does not take each member (or any majority) coming out and saying they are racist or acting in racist ways. If the organization just stands by and lets the racist talk continue, the actions continue, then it is guilty of racism itself.

This is why it is important that the statement came BEFORE the ouster of this guy. Before, there was little evidence of the Tea Party taking action against racists who claimed to be within their ranks.