ArkaAP & Donald Fung[cleared]es

[Dotan.g]

Accused:

ArkaAP
Donald Fung

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy



Game number(s):

Game 7208658

Comments: Both Players are conducting secret diplomacy, coordinating an attack on me. You can read the game chat, Donald Fung admit it himself: He is saying that the idea to attack is ArkaAP's, while the game chat does not discuss this at all.

[rdsrds2120]

2010-08-20 18:42:31 - ArkaAP: good cyan, for the moment you get back the horn, then you could create a tunnel to europe from india and leave it free to take. you should also leave moscow for me, If you do so I'll move away from all middle east but iran....what do you say?

What are you talking about it not being in game chat?

[Dotan.g]

No. Look at the game moves, they tare not talking about an attack. Just mobilizing forces. Their attack was planned and coordinated in a very suspicious way. Unlike the rest of the game chat where the coordinated attacks are posted, as the rules say.

[rdsrds2120]

I don't think this is very valid...sorry.

[Bruceswar]

I don't think this is very valid...sorry.

Then you must not be looking at the game closely.

[Dotan.g]

if I complain, like I did, what are the consequences?
and if Bruceswar agrees with me, on my claim, and you - rdsrds2120 - don't, what now?
Who is to judge?

[Masli]

the multi hunters will.

Looking at the game, it is very normal to attack the strongest player in a game. In this case : YOU

[Dotan.g]

Looking at the game, it is very normal to attack the strongest player in a game. In this case : YOU

I understand that, but does it make it Kosher to conduct a secret diplomacy? No.

[SirSebstar]

Looking at the game, it is very normal to attack the strongest player in a game. In this case : YOU

I understand that, but does it make it Kosher to conduct a secret diplomacy? No.

I have to agree with masli and rdsrds2120. please note that while i may be a (suggestion and Q&A) mod i have no powers here, for a final verdict you will have to wait.

you have been calling for alliances quite early in the game, e.g. to take out red.
2010-08-20 12:24:03 - ArkaAP: now, cyan, maybe we should look at who is leader at the moment and play to see if we can save tha game? what do you suggest?
and only then do they act more or less together..

as i see it, its all they need.
I am not saying there is no secret alliance, but i am going to ask you to do the homework for the hunters and make it easy.
please point out those things that you find wierd and try to help the hunters see what you are going at. Oh and for the rest ignore bystanders like me, you have a valid right to post here. I take it should there be no secret alliance, you are glad you were not cheated, and if there is one, you can count on it being punish (or so i hope every day
regards

[Dotan.g]

Very well.

How will I know who the hunters are?

Here is the base to my suspicions:

What happened is that ArkaAP attacked Donald Fung pretty badly. They both got hurt and then they started this chat:

2010-08-20 15:24:03 - ArkaAP: now, cyan, maybe we should look at who is leader at the moment and play to see if we can save tha game? what do you suggest?
2010-08-21 01:43:05 - Donald Fung: I'm not sure we'd have a chance even united together green, pink's slightly large.
2010-08-21 01:43:30 - Donald Fung: i do agree it makes more sense than attacking eachother.
2010-08-21 01:43:51 - Donald Fung: but... right now I want my territories back =P
2010-08-21 02:42:31 - ArkaAP: good cyan, for the moment you get back the horn, then you could create a tunnel to europe from india and leave it free to take. you should also leave moscow for me, If you do so I'll move away from all middle east but iran....what do you say?
2010-08-22 06:52:03 - Donald Fung: I'll see what i can do.

They are signing an alliance, and discussing it's terms. They plan to move forces and to redeploy their armies.
Then, Donald Fung launch a massive attack on me, in Mexico (I think it was 65 or so against 50 of my armies), knowing that green will complete the combined attack. It was a classic "You open the door for me, and I'll burst in" move.
I think all of this was fine, no foul in that. The truce, the terms, the alliance.
but then, after I saw my borders were broken and open wide, I wrote in the game chat:

2010-08-22 18:17:45 - Dotan.g: Green, if you stay out of this, you won't be harmed.
2010-08-22 22:33:12 - Donald Fung: green's the one the suggested it, but whatever....

"Green suggested it"?? Really? He suggested the alliance, certainly not the combined attack! and certainly not there.
Now, I'm not saying that an agreement of alliance against me could not lead to combined attacks such as this. But Donald Fung took a big risk attacking me, losing many troops (I guess) relying on ArkaAP to complete the job.

I can't prove secret diplomacy, I only suspect. And as my chat with davetso was a month ago in the game, I assume that attacks like that require a solid alliance, risk taking and good coordination. But that was all in the game chat, as the rules require.

2010-07-27 04:38:02 - davetso: pink.. will make a deal with ya... i will damage/take out Norwegian claim.. if you follow me break all teal's bonuses and rest your men in south africa/norwegian claim
2010-07-27 04:41:21 - davetso: let me know if u accept (:
2010-07-27 12:16:22 - Dotan.g: no can do. I will fall two turns after. sorry.

[Masli]

you are correct, they formed an alliance, written in game chat
And that is allowed.

The hunters will let you know what they think about this case in this topic

[Dotan.g]

Allright, I'll wait.
Thanks.

[Donald Fung]

WTF??? this is plain whining

first of all, this is a very long game with a game chat that would take an hour to read. The initial leaders of the board was me and red, he had control of the north, I had control of the south. Green was getting hit by yellow and red a lot and barely survived. You asked for an alliance with me after I took blue and gray out and had control of the game. Meanwhile, I let you kill red since I had yellow to take care of. After you killed red and yellow stopped on me, orange started to hit me and this time, I asked for the truce and even gave you the kill on orange (giving me a challenge/disadvantage). During this, green grew and had control of Europe while yellow took Oceania (that switched from gray to orange to you to yellow) and you had 2 continents (NA +SA). I stopped you and evened out the game by breaking your stacks a few times, then stopped when I realized we were gonna kill eachother if I continued and held a truce once again. Green, me, and yellow all fought over Asia while you were safe on the other side which was the only reason you got bigger than me. Me and green didn't truce until you were almost twice my size and that is completely normal for anyone that wants a chance in winning the game.

I gave you more truces than any other player and never interacted much with green because he was all the way up in Scandinavia while I was down in Southern Africa the majority of the round. If I was really having secret diplomacy, we would've fought together since the beginning and if we were multis, I would've suicided completely on you for green to kill us and win so don't know what you're declaring us for. You're gonna win anyways, why are you whinning about this? Every CC player will experience this against them at some point.

[ArkaAP]

this is simply nonsense, the chat is plain clear. Cyan attacked me instead of resist you (trying to get bigger), at the moment you were double than him with almost 400 armies. I think you were in position to win the game in a few turn....
I decided to hit cyan badly in order to demonstrate him I was not willing to die alone, and then proposed a truce in order to try to equilibrate the game....as you can very well see I also committed several tactical error in coordinating the attack with cyan (which in fact at the moment decided to "ask" me what he think better...), you can be assured that if we were using secret diplomacy the game would already be ended in favor of one of us.

[Dotan.g]

since you both made it clear you didn't conduct secret diplomacy - I'll take your word for that.
I understand you had a truce, we all had, that was not my reason of suspicious. The attack seemed to be very coordinated... even too coordinated in my opinion.

But there is nothing I can do, but take your word for that - You you say you didn't - then I guess you didn't. Sorry for any hard feelings.

[Evil Semp]

Everything was said in the game chat. Sometimes you just know what has to be done in a game. ArkaAP and Donald Fung are CLEARED.