San Francisco [Quenched]

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:43 pm

If you want to be realistic you should make it so that Alcatraz could only attack North Beach (Fishermans Warf) as that was the only place in which escapees tried to swim to.

nalusur · Post by **nalusur** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:49 pm

Alcatraz should be able to attack Fisherman warf.

For that matter Fishermans Warf needs to be renamed NORTH BEACH!

Think about it the few swimmers who actually made it off the isl. made the swim SW back into the city. Also the Alcatraz triathalon follows the same route.

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:23 pm

here I was thinking I was just posting my brothers opinion.

he never posts here

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:02 pm

im not dead...just busy atm. look for an update this weekend...

andy can you clear that poll now too? looks good to me...

alcatraz only attack in not out is what im going to go with...it won by a bit and its how I wanted to do it....

wrightfan123 · Post by **wrightfan123** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:45 pm

nalusur wrote:Alcatraz should be able to attack Fisherman warf.

For that matter Fishermans Warf needs to be renamed NORTH BEACH!

Think about it the few swimmers who actually made it off the isl. made the swim SW back into the city. Also the Alcatraz triathalon follows the same route.

THANK YOU!

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:15 pm

How should Alcatraz's border work...?

only attack in, not out...
55% [ 11 ]
regular border, attack in and out...
45% [ 9 ]

Total Votes : 20

For further reference, if you'd ever like a poll deleted, PM me and I will get to it quicker (especially if you include a link).

--Andy

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:59 pm

some new changes...
-cleaned borders with ocean...hopefully it looks cleaner.
-moved lots of army bubbles
-moved some of text around
-added alcatraz to legend
-changed name of 'richmond' continent to 'The Avenues'
-changed bonus of 'the avenues' and 's. san francisco' according to new region counts.
-changed 'richmond' region to 'city of richmond'
-moves signature a tad
-shrunk fishermans wharf a tiny bit (made financial slightly larger)

things im not totally happy with...
-ferry routes (oaktown i read your post, i just dont want tons of crossing ferry lines...i think it looked bad when ferry routes were previously crossing the bay bridge line, etc...)
-not set on alameda to hunters point ferry route or the emeryville to alcatraz
-need to add addendum to alcatraz bonus (+1 if another continent is held) dont really know how to fit that in and not make it look wordy and ugly

well...whats wrong with it?

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:06 pm

Will the Green armies be able to be seen in Marin? Or Red in Downtown?
Just wondering.
Looking good.

Bad Speler · Post by **Bad Speler** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:17 pm

Skittles! wrote:Will the Green armies be able to be seen in Marin? Or Red in Downtown?

I think the army shadows will keep them visible.

The division between Potrero Hill and Hunter's Point seems a bit unnatural. Its square at the ent and looks like a straight, consistent line.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:46 pm

Will the Green armies be able to be seen in Marin? Or Red in Downtown?

ill get some numbers on there and we'll see...

The division between Potrero Hill and Hunter's Point seems a bit unnatural. Its square at the ent and looks like a straight, consistent line.

yeah its a pier so itll look a little weird, and i had to mess with it because people kept saying you couldnt tell if it was a connection, if you scroll back some pages it looked better. ill try and make it look a little better.

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:17 am

-need to add addendum to alcatraz bonus (+1 if another continent is held) dont really know how to fit that in and not make it look wordy and ugly

yeah, thats a tough one. I think it will need to be moved down to the bottom of the bonus legend.

What if it wasn't the same size or same font as the rest of the bonus legend but added to the bottom like a footnote? Trying to add it to the bonus legend and look the same without making it ugly might be impossible. Might as well separate it (looks wise) from the bonus legend completely. That's just what I would try

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:58 am

Have you really considered how Alcatraz will play? This also means you cannot fortify out of Alcatraz, any forces you send in there are gone forever. You have no idea how often players will advance armies into there either by accident or because they don't realize, and it could very well cost them the game.

Also, doing this turns your map into a big circle, since this totally blocks the center. Regions don't have access to anywhere but directly bordering regions. I really think this is a problem for the gameplay of this map.

Bad Speler · Post by **Bad Speler** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:08 am

wow, i never realised the wheel effect. this is a problem, but i think alcatraz should stay how it is now, it adds a good effect to gameplay, but i agree with samus to get rid of the wheel effect

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:54 am

heres an image with some armies...colors look ok to me.

PLEASE dont tell me the armies arent lined up properly. I know. im just checking colors.

look good?

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:52 am

Green, Tilden park and Redwood Park are a little tough to read but I wouldn't make a fuss over it

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:53 am

never mind actually. I think its fine. I was looking at my laptop screen at a bad angle

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:16 pm

I know the Alcatraz in/out is been debated for a while but the point made earlier about the circle effect is correct. You can hold the entire top and left side of the map with 3 territories.

What was the reasoning again for making it one way?

What if the bonus for Alcatraz was +1 for each continent held?

Keredrex · Post by **Keredrex** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:38 pm

Whay don't you put Alcatraz on the bottom and below it right out... +1 Bonus only if you hold another territory

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:05 pm

added to the bottom like a footnote?

Whay don't you put Alcatraz on the bottom and below it right out... +1 Bonus only if you hold another territory

thats how ill try it

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:16 pm

WidowMakers wrote:What if the bonus for Alcatraz was +1 for each continent held?

Actually, this is the way he'll have to code it into the XML. He basically has to make 6 entirely new regions all worth +1, I do not believe there is a way to cancel the second bonus if you are already getting one of them. The game will automatically count a successfully held region for each one and grant you +1 per "region."

Kid_A · Post by **Kid_A** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:41 am

im excited for this map

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:55 pm

some of you are sending johloh mixed messages: on the one hand people are saying that making it impossible to attack from alcatraz makes it worthless, yet you're also telling him to make it even less valuable by attaching it to other continents.

The idea behind the current configuration is that if you own alcatraz you get a free army every turn, thus negating the effects of making it attack-in only. It makes you weigh the value of holding it, because you're constantly faced with the question of how many defense-only armies are worth the bonus. I applaud any move that adds a layer of strategy.

As for the circular nature of the map, welcome to the Bay Area. If you've ever found yourself trying to get to the east bay from the city when there's construction on the bay bridge, you'll appreciate how accurate this map is. Apart from cluttering up the map with more ferry routes, there's not much to be done.

I'm still troubled by the ferry link to Hunter's Point - it doesn't make sense in the real world, and it doesn't add much to game play. I'd put the link back in soma or china basin and make downtown +8.

Somebody raised a good point about the east bay (oakland, contra costa) having only three borders, but I don't think it's a problem because all of the bonuses are pretty generous on this map. The avenues is +4 for only six territories with three borders, comparable to africa on the classic map. Marin only has two points it has to defend. I've said before, the initial fights will be around the outside, but many games will be decided in the middle.

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:32 pm

I think the alcatraz thing has been debated to death and because 50 percent of the people fall on one side of the debate and the other 50 percent fall on the other, the designer should have the say and everyone should just be ok with it.

Another HUGE reason why it keeps coming up is because those commenting on it here in the 11th hour ARENT READING THE THREAD! They are not seeing that this has been debated to death and conclusions were made because of it.

t.e.c · Post by **t.e.c** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:43 pm

its looking good johloh, keep up the good work.

also, and i'm sure you were going to do this, but the army circles could be smaller.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:32 am

also, and i'm sure you were going to do this, but the army circles could be smaller.

well, actually i wasnt planning on changing this...nobody had mentioned it. but , youre right they could be a little smaller, ill try shrinking them slightly.

San Francisco [Quenched]

Alcatraz

Re: Alcatraz

Alcatraz