Koran burning will endanger US lives: Petraeus

[2dimes]

I figured we'd have more than one truck. Everyone can play what they want for tunes. If I had the coin for fuel I'd go, this is a good plan.

[jonesthecurl]

Something I want to know is (didn't really want to go through 8 pages of text that could fill a novel), is why is it ok to burn and desecrate bibles (some even call this "art," which I just don't see), torahs, the flag, the constitution, and other things, but it is the worst thing in the world for someone to do the same thing with the Koran? Because people in other countries don't like it? Since when has that stopped the US? Like it or not, it IS a right protected by the constitution. Don't like it want it banned? Then do the same thing with the afore mentioned items.

It is not "all right" to burn bibles. It is not the worst thing in the world to burn the Koran.

[tdans]

As a Christian and as a man, I would like to say that if we really are still Christians then we still serve the same Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent God. He has not grown old and feeble. He has not changed. May I also point out that He has set forth the attitude and methods that we as "Christians" should adopt as our own. Dare we say that Jesus was anything less than a man? Dare we call He who came and died in the place of such a worthless bunch of sinners as ourselves effeminate for not attacking verbally or physically the false religions or oppressive political systems of His day?

Please don't get your rights as an American, and your duty as a Christian confused. Don't give in to the frustration and anger and blame it on Gods work. Be a man! Try following Christ's example and cultivate a personal relationship with Him. Get to know His Heart. Trust me; it takes more of a man to do this than it does to give in to reckless anger and then blame God for it.

My Brother wrote this, and if Christians actually followed this, we wouldn't have this problem

[Woodruff]

Something I want to know is (didn't really want to go through 8 pages of text that could fill a novel), is why is it ok to burn and desecrate bibles (some even call this "art," which I just don't see), torahs, the flag, the constitution, and other things, but it is the worst thing in the world for someone to do the same thing with the Koran? Because people in other countries don't like it? Since when has that stopped the US? Like it or not, it IS a right protected by the constitution. Don't like it want it banned? Then do the same thing with the afore mentioned items.

No argument that they have the right. But in the same way that I would react if I were present during a flag-burning protest, I would do what I thought was right to try to personally stop the Koran-burning (or a Bible-burning, etc). I would recognize it is their right to do so while at the same time being willing to take a small fine/jail sentence in order to make the point of trying to stop it because I think it's the right thing to do. That doesn't mean they're wrong for doing what they're doing, necessarily...only that I disagree strongly with them.

Oh, and this seems fitting to the thread (not necessarily as a response to your points):
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/commen ... ed_forces/

[BigBallinStalin]

Something I want to know is (didn't really want to go through 8 pages of text that could fill a novel), is why is it ok to burn and desecrate bibles (some even call this "art," which I just don't see), torahs, the flag, the constitution, and other things, but it is the worst thing in the world for someone to do the same thing with the Koran? Because people in other countries don't like it? Since when has that stopped the US? Like it or not, it IS a right protected by the constitution. Don't like it want it banned? Then do the same thing with the afore mentioned items.

Well, think of it in terms of this: What's best for our national interests? And what's best for the people of the US (and for our allies fighting over there)?

We got Patreaus saying that if those Qurans are burned, there'll be a hell of a reaction against our US soldiers (and others) in the hot spots. More US troops will most likely die. How many? Not sure, but enough to matter. That, and this Quran burning will be great recruiting material for Al-Qaeda and Friends.

So the main question is: Is it really worth allowing this to happen?

I say: No, it isn't. And then I'd have that ring-leader rubbed out--make it look like an accident, fabricate evidence, ignore criticism, and move on. Disaster averted, American lives saved, less recruitment drive for the terrorists, and one less person who tried getting Americans killed.

[muy_thaiguy]

As a Christian and as a man, I would like to say that if we really are still Christians then we still serve the same Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent God. He has not grown old and feeble. He has not changed. May I also point out that He has set forth the attitude and methods that we as "Christians" should adopt as our own. Dare we say that Jesus was anything less than a man? Dare we call He who came and died in the place of such a worthless bunch of sinners as ourselves effeminate for not attacking verbally or physically the false religions or oppressive political systems of His day?

Please don't get your rights as an American, and your duty as a Christian confused. Don't give in to the frustration and anger and blame it on Gods work. Be a man! Try following Christ's example and cultivate a personal relationship with Him. Get to know His Heart. Trust me; it takes more of a man to do this than it does to give in to reckless anger and then blame God for it.

My Brother wrote this, and if Christians actually followed this, we wouldn't have this problem

Just pointing out some simple facts. Never said I was happy that they were doing this, just that some of the posters on here are saying that this is insensitive and pisses off a lot of people, yet seem to support it when it is something else.

Something I want to know is (didn't really want to go through 8 pages of text that could fill a novel), is why is it ok to burn and desecrate bibles (some even call this "art," which I just don't see), torahs, the flag, the constitution, and other things, but it is the worst thing in the world for someone to do the same thing with the Koran? Because people in other countries don't like it? Since when has that stopped the US? Like it or not, it IS a right protected by the constitution. Don't like it want it banned? Then do the same thing with the afore mentioned items.

Well, think of it in terms of this: What's best for our national interests? And what's best for the people of the US (and for our allies fighting over there)?

We got Patreaus saying that if those Qurans are burned, there'll be a hell of a reaction against our US soldiers (and others) in the hot spots. More US troops will most likely die. How many? Not sure, but enough to matter. That, and this Quran burning will be great recruiting material for Al-Qaeda and Friends.

So the main question is: Is it really worth allowing this to happen?

I say: No, it isn't. And then I'd have that ring-leader rubbed out--make it look like an accident, fabricate evidence, ignore criticism, and move on. Disaster averted, American lives saved, less recruitment drive for the terrorists, and one less person who tried getting Americans killed.

Yes yes, I understand this point, quite well in fact. And I'm not saying that I am supporting their actions in the least. I am only saying that people back off when it comes to Islamic sensitivity, but when it is ANY other group and they don't like having something that represents them so much burned or desecrated, they're told "Freedom of speech and expression! You're trying to trample those rights!"

And if I am to understand this correctly, the only way to get people to stop desecrating other symbols of their groups (bibles, flags, etc), that they need to THREATEN to go on Crusade or something? I'm sorry, but that is hypocritical BS. When people who don't like it when the flag is burned or their scirpture desecrated speak out, they are chewed out for it, while this goes on when it is pointed out that it is the SAME circumstance, it is the desecraters who are chewed out.

I don't like the desecration of ANYTHING (well, except maybe things that have to do with BYU, but that's something else entirely), so I don't support these people, or others that desecrate the flag, the bible, the torah, anything like that. I just find it to be hypocritical.

[BigBallinStalin]

Something I want to know is (didn't really want to go through 8 pages of text that could fill a novel), is why is it ok to burn and desecrate bibles (some even call this "art," which I just don't see), torahs, the flag, the constitution, and other things, but it is the worst thing in the world for someone to do the same thing with the Koran? Because people in other countries don't like it? Since when has that stopped the US? Like it or not, it IS a right protected by the constitution. Don't like it want it banned? Then do the same thing with the afore mentioned items.

Well, think of it in terms of this: What's best for our national interests? And what's best for the people of the US (and for our allies fighting over there)?

We got Patreaus saying that if those Qurans are burned, there'll be a hell of a reaction against our US soldiers (and others) in the hot spots. More US troops will most likely die. How many? Not sure, but enough to matter. That, and this Quran burning will be great recruiting material for Al-Qaeda and Friends.

So the main question is: Is it really worth allowing this to happen?

I say: No, it isn't. And then I'd have that ring-leader rubbed out--make it look like an accident, fabricate evidence, ignore criticism, and move on. Disaster averted, American lives saved, less recruitment drive for the terrorists, and one less person who tried getting Americans killed.

Yes yes, I understand this point, quite well in fact. And I'm not saying that I am supporting their actions in the least. I am only saying that people back off when it comes to Islamic sensitivity, but when it is ANY other group and they don't like having something that represents them so much burned or desecrated, they're told "Freedom of speech and expression! You're trying to trample those rights!"

And if I am to understand this correctly, the only way to get people to stop desecrating other symbols of their groups (bibles, flags, etc), that they need to THREATEN to go on Crusade or something? I'm sorry, but that is hypocritical BS. When people who don't like it when the flag is burned or their scirpture desecrated speak out, they are chewed out for it, while this goes on when it is pointed out that it is the SAME circumstance, it is the desecraters who are chewed out.

I don't like the desecration of ANYTHING (well, except maybe things that have to do with BYU, but that's something else entirely), so I don't support these people, or others that desecrate the flag, the bible, the torah, anything like that. I just find it to be hypocritical.

Ah, but there's a good reason why some will back off regarding this sensitivity issue because it's mainly about assessing the risk in letting this happen and the consequences that will most likely follow.

Sure, I'll concede that it is hypocritical, but more importantly the consequences of someone burning the bible or desecrating a flag are minor compared to this situation's. Also, Quran-burning in the US compared to Bible- and flag-burning anywhere may be the same circumstances, but you're overlooking the consequences.

If someone does desecrate the American flag in some foreign country, then it's actually beneficial to us since it's prime material for propaganda. The benefits exceed the risk; whereas, Quran-burning in the US just isn't "profitable" and very detrimental.

[tl;dr syndrome? ---> Put hypocrisy off to the side, and compare the risks versus the benefits of both circumstances. Quran burning is highly unprofitable while non-Quran burning isn't nearly as big of a loss.]

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm not against in saying f*ck off to Islam and their threats, but this is a bit extreme...

[muy_thaiguy]

So in order to get people to stop desecrating the flag or the bible, I have to threaten them with widespread physical violence?

Brilliant. Freakin' brilliant.

And all this is proving is how freakin violent the supposed "religion of peace" is when their own symbols are being desecrated. You know what? f*ck you. Christians have had to endure it, but you don't see us going all batshit crazy around the world. Jews have had to endure it, but you don't see them trying to blow up everyone that comes within 1000 miles of them. And a lot of Americans have had to deal with the flag being burned, but we haven't threatened to go on a worldwide violence spree. So f*ck you assholes. Especially you, Al Qaida. Yeah you, you fucking assholes. Can't take any criticism? What are you, a bunch of little whiny bitches that throw temper tantrums and decide to blow up innocent people!? At least man-up and admit you're fucking murderers to people of your own religion who actually, believe it or not, want to live in PEACE! So go and die in a hole somewhere assholes.

[PLAYER57832]

Something I want to know is (didn't really want to go through 8 pages of text that could fill a novel), is why is it ok to burn and desecrate bibles (some even call this "art," which I just don't see), torahs, the flag, the constitution, and other things, but it is the worst thing in the world for someone to do the same thing with the Koran? Because people in other countries don't like it? Since when has that stopped the US? Like it or not, it IS a right protected by the constitution. Don't like it want it banned? Then do the same thing with the afore mentioned items.

I absolutely agree.

The problem is that Moslems see the K'ran as something "super holy" and any defiling of the book is to defile their religion. Does that mean we have to honor those beliefs? Only to the extent they don't intefere with our own constitution and beliefs. Trickier is that this act might well endanger troops because the extreme groups in Afghanistan and elsewhere will take this and use it.

The real problem is Bush calling this a "war" on terrorism. In so doing, he set us up to fight an idea, in this case a religion.. a battle that will always fail. To fight, we have to be extra careful NOT to fall into the "fighting religion trap". This is why all those people fighting the mosque in NY, claiming Islam is a religion of terrorism (Christianity and Judaism have their share of idiots as well) and that all Arabs are evil is so harmful.

[PLAYER57832]

okay, just to get things straight: does anyone here believe that the man should NOT be allowed to burn the koran?

Moslems would say so.

if so, how should he be stopped?

Education. It's the only way.

Education and the rest of us not bowing down to the idiotic hateful rhetoric that seems to have become so widespread in our country of late.

[DeathToInfidels]

So f*ck you assholes. Especially you, Al Qaida. Yeah you, you fucking assholes. Can't take any criticism? What are you, a bunch of little whiny bitches that throw temper tantrums and decide to blow up innocent people!? At least man-up and admit you're fucking murderers to people of your own religion who actually, believe it or not, want to live in PEACE! So go and die in a hole somewhere assholes.

ALLAH most terrible will reign down the fire and the vengeance onto your disgusting head,infidel pig. Why are YOU not man-up and say this into my face? We will please to fill your dirtyhole with boiling sand, and also ripping out your evil-speaking tongue and raping your bleeding eyesockets. Then we will see who is this 'whiny bitches'.
We are knowing where you is live (my brother Obama told us).

Yours sincerely,
Osama Bin Laden
Cave 3
Torah Borah
Afghanistan

[tzor]

Tzor, if that isn't stereotyping what is? How do you know living in your Long Island cocoon how the average Muslim would react?
Also, I believe you consider yourself a Christian. So what is un-Christian about the"lukewarm protest"? Doesn't Christianity teach to turn the other cheek?

What this religious group is doing I believe to be extremely un-Christian and I would classify it as hate propaganda.

I watch the liberal news media. They tend to cover the entire world, you know.

Second, you seem to be implying motives when I am simply pointing out observations. I don't know if there is anything "un-Christian" about it. On the other hand, in the book of Revelation, three types of people are talked about, those whose faith is cold, those whose faith is hot and those whose faith is luke-warm. As to the latter they are rejected because they are neither hot nor cold.

What this religioug group is doing in opposite of the very notion of "Christian" and I would calssify it as religious terrorism, akin to the cross burning KKK. (In case you don't know this bit of trivia, the KKK hated Roman Catholics - or Papists in the old American lingo - with the same passion that they hated African Americans.)

[2dimes]

okay, just to get things straight: does anyone here believe that the man should NOT be allowed to burn the koran?

Moslems would say so.

if so, how should he be stopped?

Education. It's the only way.

Education and the rest of us not bowing down to the idiotic hateful rhetoric that seems to have become so widespread in our country of late.

So if I'm following correctly here basically. You...

think it's time for Christians, for churches, for politicians to stand up and say no;

And his behaviour...

is not welcome in the US."

Education, yeah that would super fix it. He should probably take religious studies and theology. Amirite?

[karel]

lock up the crazy fucker

[AAFitz]

okay, just to get things straight: does anyone here believe that the man should NOT be allowed to burn the koran? if so, how should he be stopped?

Absolutely not, assuming no fire code is broken, and all safety precautions are taken. Mostly thats for their protection though...not great press for evangelists to be burned or hurt while burning the koran, by their own standards, that would prove that Allah was the one true God.

It is just an expression of a religious belief however, and is therefore protected by free speech. It cannot be stopped, for any other reason than practical reasons, because it would violate his 1st amendment rights. Theoretically, one could argue that it crosses the lines of international relations, or even national security, but that hardly means it should be stopped on such grounds.

Mostly, it should be ignored as all such extremist demonstrations should be ignored. By ignored I mean ignored by those it supposedly affects, and not necessarily ignored by people wishing to use their freedom of speech to condemn it as the insanely hypocritical act that it is.

If the world were a perfect place with perfect justice, it should be stopped with a freak rainstorm directly overhead the fire.
Another option would be for believers to use holy water in some hopes the symbolic nature of it would help reduce tensions between to religions that seem very opposed to the other at this time. In any case, some crackpot deciding to sell his soul, and violate the entire point of his entire religion should not be a concern whatsoever. Crackpots will forever be a part of the human race, they will always do things reprehensible, but we must always react within our own laws and code of conduct, for it is the only way to defeat such crackpots. For violating our own code, is the only way such people will win.

[Night Strike]

The problem is that Moslems see the K'ran as something "super holy" and any defiling of the book is to defile their religion. Does that mean we have to honor those beliefs? Only to the extent they don't intefere with our own constitution and beliefs. Trickier is that this act might well endanger troops because the extreme groups in Afghanistan and elsewhere will take this and use it.

The Taliban will kill American soldiers simply for being in that region because we took away their power to rule and enslave. If captured, they might blame it on American extremists burning the Koran, but I have a feeling it's safe to bet 99% of them would have been attacking American troops anyway. It's just another tool for the Taliban to attempt to justify their own actions of violence and oppression, but all attempts at justification do not take away from the fact that they are simply after power for themselves.

[notyou2]

NS if you feel so strongly, perhaps you should enlist and kill to your heart's content.

[2dimes]

Nightstrike, I agree they're killing people allready and I understand what AAFitz meant on the second page here when he wrote.

and this book burning would only be an excuse, not an actual reason.

None of that makes it a good idea. If your house is on fire do you hope it goes out or throw accelerant on it? Even if you're not in position to put it out you shouldn't do things you admit would make it worse. Or should you?

I was reading an article that states there is all ready a reaction in Afghanistan to this fine american christian and his idea. I wouldn't hit him unless I needed to defend myself but I'd like to have a conversation with him so I could ask "How can you be this stupid?".

[Night Strike]

Nightstrike, I agree they're killing people allready and I understand what AAFitz meant on the second page here when he wrote.

and this book burning would only be an excuse, not an actual reason.

None of that makes it a good idea. If your house is on fire do you hope it goes out or throw accelerant on it? Even if you're not in position to put it out you shouldn't do things you admit would make it worse. Or should you?

I was reading an article that states there is all ready a reaction in Afghanistan to this fine american christian and his idea. I wouldn't hit him unless I needed to defend myself but I'd like to have a conversation with him so I could ask "How can you be this stupid?".

I never said he should do it, only that he can do it.


By the way, I've edited my generalization that got AAFitz and others upset towards me. Sorry about the over-generalization.

[Woodruff]

So in order to get people to stop desecrating the flag or the bible, I have to threaten them with widespread physical violence?

In my experience, if an individual is upset enough about a situation that they're willing to burn a Bible/Koran/Flag, the answer is yes. After all, burnings like this aren't typically taken when someone is just mildly upset about something.

[Woodruff]

okay, just to get things straight: does anyone here believe that the man should NOT be allowed to burn the koran?

Moslems would say so.

Not all Muslims would.

if so, how should he be stopped?

Education. It's the only way.

This is the only good long-term solution.

[muy_thaiguy]

So f*ck you assholes. Especially you, Al Qaida. Yeah you, you fucking assholes. Can't take any criticism? What are you, a bunch of little whiny bitches that throw temper tantrums and decide to blow up innocent people!? At least man-up and admit you're fucking murderers to people of your own religion who actually, believe it or not, want to live in PEACE! So go and die in a hole somewhere assholes.

ALLAH most terrible will reign down the fire and the vengeance onto your disgusting head,infidel pig. Why are YOU not man-up and say this into my face? We will please to fill your dirtyhole with boiling sand, and also ripping out your evil-speaking tongue and raping your bleeding eyesockets. Then we will see who is this 'whiny bitches'.
We are knowing where you is live (my brother Obama told us).

Yours sincerely,
Osama Bin Laden
Cave 3
Torah Borah
Afghanistan

Cute. So, who's multi was this?

[GabonX]

So f*ck you assholes. Especially you, Al Qaida. Yeah you, you fucking assholes. Can't take any criticism? What are you, a bunch of little whiny bitches that throw temper tantrums and decide to blow up innocent people!? At least man-up and admit you're fucking murderers to people of your own religion who actually, believe it or not, want to live in PEACE! So go and die in a hole somewhere assholes.

ALLAH most terrible will reign down the fire and the vengeance onto your disgusting head,infidel pig. Why are YOU not man-up and say this into my face? We will please to fill your dirtyhole with boiling sand, and also ripping out your evil-speaking tongue and raping your bleeding eyesockets. Then we will see who is this 'whiny bitches'.
We are knowing where you is live (my brother Obama told us).

Yours sincerely,
Osama Bin Laden
Cave 3
Torah Borah
Afghanistan

Cute. So, who's multi was this?

My money is on heavycola

[muy_thaiguy]

Him or Norse is who I was thinking of.