GabonX wrote: PLAYER57832 wrote:GabonX wrote:That would be a good point if there was something in Christianity which would indicate that burning a Koran violated God's laws.
I'm not aware of any such thing, but it's always fun watching people that pride themselves on their atheism give lessons on theology..
How about the "do unto others" part. Or, for that matter, the bit about "shake the dust from your feet". It said to leave, avoid, not to go in and take a crusade against them. At least, not when folks aren't actively attacking us (and, some Christians, though not I, take exception to even that). As for attacking, Muslims are not attacking us on the whole. Some idiots who call themselves Muslims are attacking us or advocating attacks on us, just as some idiots who call themselves Christian are attacking or advocating attacks on not just Muslims, but Christians who don't subscribe to all the same ideas.
There were plenty of pagans and other religions around at the time of Christ. He concerned himself with Jews, and those who wanted to hear his message, not all those others. Seems that is the model we should follow.
First off, let me commend you for attempting to support an argument with substance. This is worlds better than what the previous poster was trying to do.. With that said, I don't see that these passages indicate that burning a Koran would be wrong, and there's arguably tacit support for such an action if you put the second quote in context...
I'm not sure the "do unto others" part applies, as burning a Koran is attacking an idea, a faith, an ideology, but not actually people in a physical sense. I don't see how burning a book is doing something "unto" another person. This line of reasoning also hinges on the assumption that Christians care what non-Christians do with a Bible.. We had actually discussed the "shake the dust from your feet" passage fairly recently on here. Metsfan took one of the surrounding lines from that passage out of context and was claiming that it showed Christianity supported murdering people if they didn't convert, and hence violence in Christianity is comparable to violence in Islam. Lol
The "its just an idea" part is not applicable here. The part that some take with meaning is whether any of these passages apply to those outside the religion (then Judaism, of course). Similar to the "thou shalt not kill", many Christians see it as "thou shalt not kill ... period". Other Christians and most Jews see it more as "thou shalt not murder" OR "thou shalt not kill/murder thy brother" , as in it applies only to people "within" the faith.
When it comes to Muslims and Jews there is a bit of further trickiness, because some would say we all worship the same God and therefore are apart from pagans, who are just outside the religion. However, this is why they are subject to attack by many Christians, much like some Roman Catholics and Protestants have gone to literal war over faith issues -- they see those groups as "knowing, but rejecting" (more or less-- LOT of variations and subtletiestherein) the "true" faith (quotes because who can define "true" except as we ourselves each think and beleive). People with this belief see them as more harmful, as needing correction and not just education or, even see attacking them as wroughting God's vengeance upon them.
At any rate, I don't hold with any of that. I believe that the "do onto others" bit means ALL others. I am happy to debate issues, so have no trouble with other people doing the same. I won't take up violance except in defense. I respect those who take up violance in the defense of others, but am cautious about my approval. In general, I believe in supporting soldiers sent of to battle, and
particularly those who have returned (to whom we ALL owe more than our lives), but also believe in working to ensure they are sent off as little as possible.
GabonX wrote:Let's take a look at that passage:
Mathew 10:5-10:15 wrote:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, [2] cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. 9 Acquire no gold nor silver nor copper for your belts, 10 no bag for your journey, nor two tunics [3] nor sandals nor a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. 11 And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. 12 As you enter the house, greet it. 13 And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. 15 Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.
It goes on to describe violence they will encounter as a result of their preaching.
What the passage is discussing is how to approach people in foreign lands, specifically the secular Jews of the time. I'm not sure that this passage applies to how Christians should worship at home in modern times.
It is interesting that Mathew 8 states "cast out demons" which actually seems to support the burning of Korans if they are thought to be false scripture, which is something that (basically) everyone except Muslims agree on..
I have certainly never heard and don't accept that "casting out demons" refers to the K'ran. Ideas are ideas. Demons are a physical entity that can sway people's ideas. They are dangerous. However, they are not the ideas themselves. I see that thinking as entirely twisted.
IN fact, it is just as twisted as the thinking that going off and killing someone who's beliefs differ from yours will somehow eliminate the idea.
Kill enough people and it might work, eventually. However, a far more efficient and effective method is to just confront the ideas themselves head-on.
That is why all these movements to take kids out of public schools, allow narrow parochial teachings, allow "variations on truth" are so dangerous. AND, it is why people putting forward exlusion of Muslims as something positive are, in fact, feeding the enemy. When you fail to accept and welcome moderates, then extremists gain power.
