Should a person be kicked for missing the first round?

reignofjerm · Post by **reignofjerm** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:27 am

I think we can all agree that deadbeating is one of the biggest problems facing the Conquer Club community. Nobody likes getting into a game and somebody missing turn after turn, or even those who miss rounds as a strategy.

So the question is, should a person be kicked immediately for missing the first round? I believe they should because when you join a game and miss the first round it sets the standard for the rest of the game. And some users deadbeat after they see that the game starts off with people deadbeating. If you join a game, you should check back on that game within 24 hours are you should be kicked. Play the first round, and you can have your 3 missed turns (we all have lives).

wacicha · Post by **wacicha** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:34 am

most of missed turns are by new people - and we need new people

so lrt them relax and become part f our structure. They may stay and become better players with the leniency we show them in the beginning of there CC life

reignofjerm · Post by **reignofjerm** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:55 am

I know we need new people. But we need new people who come in, join a game and play a few rounds to see how it is. I'm not addressing someone who joins a game and doesn't like playing it. I'm talking about people who join a game then never make a move right out the gate.

Is the lesson we want new people to learn is that you can join any game you want and just sit around and never play? That's why you have rules!

wacicha · Post by **wacicha** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:01 am

but it is like fishing we got to hook em first

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:51 am

I think this is a damn good idea. If somebody joins a game, they should be around long enough to play the first turn. After that, life happens and the odd missed turn can be excused but I've found that the majority of people who miss their first turn also miss their second and third.

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:36 pm

wacicha wrote:but it is like fishing we got to hook em first

i got friggin harpooned

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:41 pm

as far as the topic at hand, people will always be able to miss some turns...maybe it will be cut back to 2 but I doubt even that. For one thing, not as many people as you think care about them...they dont bother me at all...and only occasionally has one come back to take it over after purposely skipping, but you are fighting a lost cause here....Lack realistically needs to get as many people trying the site as possible. Its the only way to grow, and sustain the site. Ive missed two turns out of more than a thousand games...but ive used up my $20 worth ten times over by now, so he has to rely on new players....many will deadbeat, but the percentage that doesnt keeps the game alive.

jonkennedyatut · Post by **jonkennedyatut** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:53 pm

I agree that "deadbeats" are a problem - especially when the rules are intentionally abused.

However, I can't support the idea that these players should be kicked for missing the first round. Indeed, skipping the first round can dictate the tone of the game, but I find that abuse of the rules in the later rounds oftentimes has a much more significant impact upon the ultimate outcome of the match. That is, if the other players do not or cannot eliminate the "deadbeat".

But to punish players for missing the first round would have no effect. The "deadbeats" would then simply skip the second round, and so forth. Also, I myself have created games and left town only to find that they have filled and initiated upon our return, and that we have been skipped as well.

I think it's sad that some players can find satisfaction in rule abuse or outright cheating - all for the sake of a score and rank that are poor gauges of skill and ability. Mind you, I do not wish to detract from the finest players in CC. In fact, many superior players are highly ranked. Then again, I have encountered many players that are quite skilled yet not so highly-ranked.

(One is reminded that many or most of the highest-ranked players are typically, if not solely, involved in team matches. Team games are fun in their own right, but I derive more pleasure from Standard games. I hold nothing against team players. Rather, I mean only to state the case that the rank and score system is inherently flawed in its design.)

All said, it is quite unfortunate that there is really no effective means of curbing the rise of more immature players. The rest of us are constrained to tolerate their impact on the games in which we play and only strive for the ultimate pleasure - watching cheaters squirm as we defeat them despite their surreptitious gameplay.

Aside from using discretion in the games that we join and observing/reporting cheaters and abusers we encounter, there is really nothing to be done about this problem.

Luke035 · Post by **Luke035** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:21 pm

reignofjerm wrote:If you join a game, you should check back on that game within 24 hours are you should be kicked. Play the first round, and you can have your 3 missed turns (we all have lives).

Where is the logic in this? What makes the first round any different than any other round when it comes to being able to check back in on the game within 24 hours?

It has already been said, but this 'solution' will only shift the abuse to other rounds and I guarantee (from personal experience) that you will be equally as frustrated in dealing with deadbeaters in rounds 2, 3, or 4, etc. Maybe even moreso as you are starting to establish your own position by then...

Deadbeats are a problem, but kicking them for missing round one is not a solution.

Windparson · Post by **Windparson** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:37 pm

24 hours first round, you miss, then

12 hours, no play, then,

1 hour, no play and you are out!!!!

Instead of 72 hours of delay, you have 37, almost cuts it in half. If a person joins a game, and can't check in once in that amount of time, they are not gonna play any way.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Windparson

spinwizard · Post by **spinwizard** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:49 pm

i missed my 1st 2 turns in all of my starting games (i was ill)

hecter · Post by **hecter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:03 pm

I don't think that it is a good idea. Every so often something could happen, lightning storm knocks out power, ect. and somebody can miss their turn. So I don't think that it is a good idea to do that.

Windparson · Post by **Windparson** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:32 pm

The key, is every so often. They would have 37 hours assuming every other player takes their move with in one minute. With the average move being in hours per move, that is still an insane amount of time.

Storms, computer down, Internet provider being down, it would rarely go more than 48 hours.

This is coming from someone who was out of power in Hurricane Isabelle for 13 days. My wife works, online, for a company 140 miles away. We just called around till we found a friend with Internet access and power so she could work.

Now, while I am not suggesting CC is important enough to go to that extreme, I think the scenario you mention is outside of normal. Virginia is prone to Ice Storms, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, and numerous severe thunderstorms, and we are rarely out of power for more than 12 hours. And, very rarely, 36 hours. Under my plan, even that time would not kick a player out. They have 37 hours, plus the other players time.

Just my 2 cents. I for one, am tired of dead beating. My partner and I are in a game with 3 deadbeats out of 4 other players. Unacceptable.

Windparson

PS, "Your father still smells of elderberries!"

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:53 pm

When I first joined I missed some turns because I hadn't integrated CC into my daily computer routine. The people I played with were very patient with me and I am thankful for that.
That being said I can understand when people get frustrated. I have been in games where the person who created the game, didn't play or missed their first turn or two. A pain, yes to have to wait three days to make three moves. I have also been in a game where one player didn't like his layout and deadbeated the game, even though he was playing other games on CC at the same time.
Maybe cutting the 24 hour time in half for every missed turn might speed up the games. So first turn 24 hours, next missed 12, then you have 6 hours to play your third. If you come in and play a round it starts back up at 24.
Yes people have things that come up in their lives that are far more important than CC. And that being said, I am sure they aren't all the interested in their points at that time, so if they get booted out, so be it. I am sure they will understand.

tahitiwahini · Post by **tahitiwahini** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:03 pm

Well-said, keiths31.

I like your proposal. It seems to strike a better balance than the current policy which to me seems to unduly favor the person missing turns.

The absolutely worst thing that can happen to you in a CC game is that you lose something less than 100 points.

I wish that was the worst thing that can happen to you in real life.

The people missing turns don't seem to lose a lot of sleep over how they're wasting the time of their fellow players.

I've been told that a resign button has too many problems, but I've yet to hear what some of the alternatives are.

Windparson · Post by **Windparson** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:41 pm

Quote --Well-said, keiths31.

I like your proposal. It seems to strike a better balance than the current policy which to me seems to unduly favor the person missing turns. end quote

Keiths31 proposal is only a little longer than the one I mentioned. I could live with his as well, as long as their was some change.

Also, I believe the Mods ought to be able to boot a player out of a game who announces they are going to dead beat out. Just finished a game (after eons of time) that a player, who has 5 negative feedbacks all for deadbeating after the game goes South on him, announce he was deadbeating.

Now, I know, people will say, "well, they just won't announce it", that might be true, but it is an option that could be used.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Windparson

Game Number 274006

User ID Sorochty

tahitiwahini · Post by **tahitiwahini** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:07 pm

Windparson wrote: Keiths31 proposal is only a little longer than the one I mentioned. I could live with his as well, as long as their was some change.

True enough. I could live with your proposal as well. My goal is to reduce missing turns and deadbeating, so I'm in favor of almost any proposal that takes away any incentive for missing turns (the missing turn bonus) or that shortens the amount of time that a deadbeat can waste before they are eliminated.

Didn't mean to slight your proposal, Windparson. It's a good one too.

Not sure I would want to burden the moderators with another duty though. Sounds like they have their hands full with multis and secret allies, etc.

I'm still interested in the resign button. I realize there are a number of issues with the resign button, but I think most or all of them could be worked out.

firth4eva · Post by **firth4eva** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:54 am

Windparson · Post by **Windparson** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:01 am

That's a good idea too. That would stop players using the missed turn as a strategy.

I despise the doubled, tripled armies for missed turns.

Since one of the aspects of this game is to mimic "real" warfare, you don't think your armies get doubled and tripled when you don't fight do you? Your "real" soldiers might be rested, but they didn't get bigger by not fighting. That comes from reinforcements, which we have here as fortification.

I know, at least from what I read, that Lack and the Mods are planning on implementing some ideas to slow down dead beats, And, since this site is gonna be Lack's primary income now, I don't want to discourage new players. But, I would bet, most dead beats who miss their turns in their first games, are not going to register as a premium player any way.

The people who will go premium will do it like I did. You find the site, play a few games, fall in love with it, beg the wife for 20 dollars (We have 2 kids getting married in the last 6 months, one down and the other in just a few days) and become a regular, turn taking, forum clogging, CC player!

True, we probably don't need to put any thing else on the Mods. That Wicked person seems scary.

The avatar she had before the one she has now, was just, well, wicked. lol

Again, my 2 cents, with which an additional 5 dollars, will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Windparson

oVo · Post by **oVo** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:48 am

I think it's a great idea! The first round is the only time that CC gives an emailed heads up that it's your turn. If a player is sick, kidnapped by a satanic cult, abducted by aliens, locked out of the house or otherwise unavailable to play, that's the perfect time for them to be ejected.

Anyone who really wants to play can join another game... when they are ready to actually play.

wrightfan123 · Post by **wrightfan123** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:42 pm

I believe there was a post saying only NOOBS should kicked out after missing a turn. I mean think about it: if your in a game with a captain or something, they probably haven't completly forgotten about the site like the noobs have. They're probably,on vacation and have no interenet access. Or, if they're 12 or something, they've been grounded. I support THAT idea (until someone studis deadbeater paterns

).

Hologram · Post by **Hologram** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:40 pm

hecter wrote:I don't think that it is a good idea. Every so often something could happen, lightning storm knocks out power, ect. and somebody can miss their turn. So I don't think that it is a good idea to do that.

But it's not the end of the world if they get kicked off a game, either, so they can just start a new game. It's only the 1st round.

Madmartigan · Post by **Madmartigan** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:58 pm

what about simply being able to ignore new recruits when you create games so that they couldn't join them until they have played a few games?

Hologram · Post by **Hologram** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:54 pm

Madmartigan wrote:what about simply being able to ignore new recruits when you create games so that they couldn't join them until they have played a few games?

If you can make private games yeah, but othewise, unless you want to ignore every single new recruit out there, then no. Just no.

alster · Post by **alster** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:35 am

reignofjerm wrote:I think we can all agree that deadbeating is one of the biggest problems facing the Conquer Club community. Nobody likes getting into a game and somebody missing turn after turn, or even those who miss rounds as a strategy.

So the question is, should a person be kicked immediately for missing the first round? I believe they should because when you join a game and miss the first round it sets the standard for the rest of the game. And some users deadbeat after they see that the game starts off with people deadbeating. If you join a game, you should check back on that game within 24 hours are you should be kicked. Play the first round, and you can have your 3 missed turns (we all have lives).

Voted no.

Problem with this would be in a team game that with one guy kicked out, his team mate would already in round 2 be able to control the armies of his team mates. That would be quite a strategic advantage.