SIEGE! - PSD available - [Quenched]

[mibi]

Ok, the key is changed up, looks better, and i think double bonuses are clear enough. As per suggestion the walls cannot attack except via the stairs or onto the inner gate. The gate has been divided in two. This way you can have a serious battle right on the gate and it gives the fortress one more chance to repel.

thoughts on the outer wall and gate playability?

[khellendros]

Love it, and can't wait to see it in action

[hulmey]

You say in your bonus legend any camp plus gate = 4 but now you have split the gate into two segements!!!!

Also the water in the moat should be lighter like the water in the sea or river.....

How come any andy has not graced this thread yet????

Coz cant really see anything wrong with it, looks finished already amazing!!!

[mibi]

You say in your bonus legend any camp plus gate = 4 but now you have split the gate into two segements!!!!

yeah maybe the Camp + Gate bonus should be higher, i dunno, the gate/wall is an area of contention.

Also the water in the moat should be lighter like the water in the sea or river.....

somone i think stagnant moat water would not be as clean as that which flows into a lake from a sparkling mountain stream...

[mibi]

ok now the boring circles are shields, by color two!

[sully800]

I like the idea of shields, but I don't think they should match the background of each area. That kind of defeats the purpose of an army shadow, which exists to make the numbers legible. As it stands, I'm pretty sure you won't be able to read green numbers on green shields, etc. So I would keep playing around with the idea, but I think you'll need a white/gray background to place the armies on.

With the addition of the camps walls I think most of the outer continents are playable and they look good. However the Midlands is still a big problem- it has 6 total countries and each one is a border, which is not a good thing. Continents with 6 borders are useless, and to have a small one in the center of the map doesn't help in my opinion. I think you should look into rearranging the countries of the forrest and the midlands to further reduce the borders and increase playability.

Also- someone mentioned earlier that you should get rid of the 4-way corners but you never replied and they still exist. I am referring to the corners between 2345 in the midlands and 1256 in the midlands. 4 way corners make it unclear if the diagonal countries can attack, and since those borders are made up it will be very easy for you to fix.

Additionally, I don't like your country borders for everything outside of the castle. Everything is made of straight lines and geometric shapes which is not only boring, but it reduces the aesthetic appeal. As I said before, your use of textures and other graphical features is top notch, but that is being wasted by the simple straight borders that are drawn on top of everything.

By my count you have 46 countries? That's not a very good number because you will need neutral countries with most player setups and people don't generally like that. I would aim for getting 42 or 48 countries which will mean only 5 player games yield neutral territories. If you choose 48 then this will hold true when 8 player games are implemented in the future as well.

EDIT- never mind, I count 50 territories, so I think it would be best to elminate 2. This might also help to solve the problem of the midlands having too many borders. You can perhaps merge some of the midlands with the forest and eliminate the 4 corners, which reducing the total countries to 48. That pretty much would implement all of my suggestions in one go!

[MonRepos]

Good idea with the shields. I like where it is going although I don't like thee arrows at the gate. By the ay it's "forest" not "forrest"

[Gozar]

Wow this is looking nice!
Darken shields in forest a touch?

Great job!

Gozar

[mibi]

I like the idea of shields, but I don't think they should match the background of each area. That kind of defeats the purpose of an army shadow, which exists to make the numbers legible. As it stands, I'm pretty sure you won't be able to read green numbers on green shields, etc. So I would keep playing around with the idea, but I think you'll need a white/gray background to place the armies on.

posted below with the color armies that most match the shields, i suppose its a little difficult to read.

With the addition of the camps walls I think most of the outer continents are playable and they look good. However the Midlands is still a big problem- it has 6 total countries and each one is a border, which is not a good thing. Continents with 6 borders are useless, and to have a small one in the center of the map doesn't help in my opinion. I think you should look into rearranging the countries of the forrest and the midlands to further reduce the borders and increase playability.

yes the midlands is the hardest territory to take, which is why its bonus is the highest. Its right in front of the gate, i'd expect it would function as kind of a no mans land unless you are powerful enough to take and hold it, which would would be rewarded well for.

Also- someone mentioned earlier that you should get rid of the 4-way corners but you never replied and they still exist. I am referring to the corners between 2345 in the midlands and 1256 in the midlands. 4 way corners make it unclear if the diagonal countries can attack, and since those borders are made up it will be very easy for you to fix.

it doesnt seem to me that one would think they could attack in a diagonal. but i can reduce the 4 ways if people suggest it so. the 4 ways on the continent borders reduce the exposure making it easier to hold however.

Additionally, I don't like your country borders for everything outside of the castle. Everything is made of straight lines and geometric shapes which is not only boring, but it reduces the aesthetic appeal. As I said before, your use of textures and other graphical features is top notch, but that is being wasted by the simple straight borders that are drawn on top of everything.

the thing about the outside borders is that there no frame of reference like on geography maps, its all arbitrary, whether its arbitrary straight lines or arbitrary curves lines. plus the feel of the whole map is rather geometric, i think it fits in a certain regard, but i'll consider modifying them.

By my count you have 46 countries? That's not a very good number because you will need neutral countries with most player setups and people don't generally like that. I would aim for getting 42 or 48 countries which will mean only 5 player games yield neutral territories. If you choose 48 then this will hold true when 8 player games are implemented in the future as well.

EDIT- never mind, I count 50 territories, so I think it would be best to elminate 2. This might also help to solve the problem of the midlands having too many borders. You can perhaps merge some of the midlands with the forest and eliminate the 4 corners, which reducing the total countries to 48. That pretty much would implement all of my suggestions in one go!

there are 52, maybe you missed the gate.

[mibi]

Wow this is looking nice!
Darken shields in forest a touch?

armies in the forest are hard to see, all that leaf cover...

[Gozar]

lol, Camoflauge! The gray armies on the wall as well.

[t.e.c]

you could try the shields as a steel gray color, to fit the theme.

[mibi]

you could try the shields as a steel gray color, to fit the theme.

grey sheilds.... which is better... i like colored personally...

[Molacole]

since this is a seige map what's the chances of territories actually playing out like seige weapons? Like certain territories (catapults) can only attack the wall and others (rams) could only attack the gate.

not sure how that would work with the xml, but I think it definitely works with the theme of the map.

[mibi]

since this is a seige map what's the chances of territories actually playing out like seige weapons? Like certain territories (catapults) can only attack the wall and others (rams) could only attack the gate.

not sure how that would work with the xml, but I think it definitely works with the theme of the map.

its been discussed a few times and ultimately impracticle due to the fact that a catapult could launch 30 armies onto a wall and you could also fortify via a catapult.

its a good idea if catapults could attack but not conquer, but thats not possible at the moment.

[biteme143]

Isn't there anyway you can spice up some of the colors to make it more realistic or even some of the scenery to look more real I mean it looks like a cool map but still needs to look like lets say king of the mountains graphics!

[mibi]

Isn't there anyway you can spice up some of the colors to make it more realistic or even some of the scenery to look more real I mean it looks like a cool map but still needs to look like lets say king of the mountains graphics!

uh... this map will never look like King of Mountain, they are totally different. There will be no 'spicing' of the graphics. Im sorry its not realistic enough for you.

Im mainly interested in the game play at this point.

[WidowMakers]

Isn't there anyway you can spice up some of the colors to make it more realistic or even some of the scenery to look more real I mean it looks like a cool map but still needs to look like lets say king of the mountains graphics!

uh... this map will never look like King of Mountain, they are totally different. There will be no 'spicing' of the graphics. Im sorry its not realistic enough for you.

Im mainly interested in the game play at this point.

I agree. We don't want two maps looking the same even if they are different in gameplay.

I like the way this one is heading. I might have missed this eariler but can the wall still attack out to the territories surrounding the castle? I see the arrows that point in towards the wall but not back out.

In regards to the shields, could you make them all white and then 70-75 % transparent. That would let some of the backgroung color thought and still provide enough white to read the numbers. KEEP THE SHIELDS!!

[Guiscard]

Isn't there anyway you can spice up some of the colors to make it more realistic or even some of the scenery to look more real I mean it looks like a cool map but still needs to look like lets say king of the mountains graphics!

Graphics are top notch as they are, and I think theres been a foundry consensus on that to be honest. The shields look great, and better grey than as colours. They still look a little faint on the west ward with grey armies, but if we remember that grey armies are neutral and aren't ever a huge issue in games I think that shouldn't be a problem, as making them brighter would look bad.

As for gameplay, I see what you mean about the midlands being a central wasteland continent with a high bonus. People expect wasteland conts to have lots of territories, but that doesn't have to be the case. The playability still needs another thorough analysis, but looking at it briefly I'd say it might be a good idea to get rid of at least one border on the plains. Consider drawing the border between plains 1 and plains 4 so it touches the lake, and 1 is the only border with the midlands.

I actually agree about straight borders. You either have to go all straight or all curved, and as the map is petty geometric anyway curved is the way to go. You will be able to use your prerogative as the map maker for this, as you've got a good argument.

You do need to get rid of the four corner borders though. I know it does seem obvious but many players, especially noobs, get very confused and we'll get the same question time and time again in the forum. Changing planes 4 would eliminate one, and for the others in the midlands I'd make it so midlands 2 can attack both 4 and 6, as this creates a pretty vital territory outside of the gate which could be an influential factor (think the middle east or Greenland). It would certainly make games more interesting. Even if the midlands were not really holdable, by stacking on 2 you could be within a couple of territories of breaking most of the conts.

[mibi]

Isn't there anyway you can spice up some of the colors to make it more realistic or even some of the scenery to look more real I mean it looks like a cool map but still needs to look like lets say king of the mountains graphics!

uh... this map will never look like King of Mountain, they are totally different. There will be no 'spicing' of the graphics. Im sorry its not realistic enough for you.

Im mainly interested in the game play at this point.

I agree. We don't want two maps looking the same even if they are different in gameplay.

I like the way this one is heading. I might have missed this eariler but can the wall still attack out to the territories surrounding the castle? I see the arrows that point in towards the wall but not back out.

In regards to the shields, could you make them all white and then 70-75 % transparent. That would let some of the backgroung color thought and still provide enough white to read the numbers. KEEP THE SHIELDS!!

No, the walls can now only attack via the stairs or onto the gate. Scroll up, there is an image of the shields as one transparent color like you were talking about.

[WidowMakers]

No, the walls can now only attack via the stairs or onto the gate. Scroll up, there is an image of the shields as one transparent color like you were talking about.

But the arrow only points up to the wall not back. This makes it seem that the wall scannot attack back down.

P.S. Sorry I missed the gray shields. I think those work the best

[mibi]

No, the walls can now only attack via the stairs or onto the gate. Scroll up, there is an image of the shields as one transparent color like you were talking about.

But the arrow only points up to the wall not back. This makes it seem that the wall scannot attack back down.

P.S. Sorry I missed the gray shields. I think those work the best

you are correct, the walls cannot attack back down.

The outerwall/gate area is up for debate in terms of game play. There is something to be said for the various ways the walls could attack or not attack. Samus made some interesting points a few pages back or so.

[Gozar]

Gray shields look nice.
Bonuses seem more balanced to me now.

This map is looking great!

Cheers.

Gozar

[sfhbballnut]

Isn't there anyway you can spice up some of the colors to make it more realistic or even some of the scenery to look more real I mean it looks like a cool map but still needs to look like lets say king of the mountains graphics!

uh... this map will never look like King of Mountain, they are totally different. There will be no 'spicing' of the graphics. Im sorry its not realistic enough for you.

Im mainly interested in the game play at this point.

I agree, the image looks pretty good

[AndyDufresne]

Which way should the tunnel be?

One way from the Great Hall to the Swamp (escape)
19% [ 7 ]
One way from the Swamp to the Great Hall (sneak attack)
13% [ 5 ]
Both directions
66% [ 24 ]

Total Votes : 36


--Andy