Quentin Tarantino Mafia Night 3 (Mafia Win!)

[mandalorian2298]

Hi guys. Sorry for not being able to resume playing this game, but I had RL and hardware issues.

P.S. Ga7 is completely right, you should always trust me.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Damn, i don't remember anything from this game, I'll need to re-read all this thread

I'll try to post today or tomorrow.

[edocsil]

So anything going on in here? There were 2 particularly serious arguments on page 28 against TG anyone care to comment? or is this game just going to sit here?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

So anything going on in here? There were 2 particularly serious arguments on page 28 against TG anyone care to comment? or is this game just going to sit here?

I'm doing my part.

-Tails

[safariguy5]

Damn do I need to start prodding people?

[strike wolf]

Damn do I need to start prodding people?

Yesh

[naxus]

Naxus is still here, I posted my case a few pages ago and was firmly ignored so......

[Victor Sullivan]

Naxus is still here, I posted my case a few pages ago and was firmly ignored so......

I thought naxus left... Where is this so-called naxus, anyways?

[naxus]

Naxus is still here, I posted my case a few pages ago and was firmly ignored so......

I thought naxus left... Where is this so-called naxus, anyways?

See, Thoroughly Ignored

[Victor Sullivan]

Naxus is still here, I posted my case a few pages ago and was firmly ignored so......

I thought naxus left... Where is this so-called naxus, anyways?

See, Thoroughly Ignored

What was that?

[strike wolf]

All I can say about PMC is that the role that has been suggested he might be does not sound like a mafia role. Tails on the other hand stepped out to defend karel early when ga7 called him out on it he backed off but his vote later on AoG seems to be more of a divert attention away from what was at the time the developping wagon (karel) to the inactive player. in between that he got defensive over allegations from ga7 and more than anyone else seemed to just be following the flow on the mandy wagon.

I know metagaming is bad but aog's response seems much like many of his comments in other games he's been in so for me not enough to consider voting aog/victor.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Ok, re-read day 2.

My scummy list for this game would be:
1. Tails:
When this started i believe it was one of his first games(one of my first too), and, wouldn't you know it, he acted like a newb scum, bandwaggoning and all that(i detailed it in that long-ass post edocsil quoted).

2. Karel:
His attitude pretty much just screams: "I want to appear to contribute and get any lynch going while taking as few risks as possible".The way he "suggests" theories imo too ridiculous for even him to believe them(that they people who started the lynch on Violet are scummy, despite how she was acting ... ), and how he initially gets over defensive when i point this out(he tones it down later) ... just doesn't seem right.

3. ga7
I think Commander summarized it pretty decently, but mostly this post raised some flags imo:

Despite repeated advice you guys want to go for the lynch of a guy that just happens to always have more illogical gameplay and that claimed, well at this point I say go ahead and do your noob thing, I'm pretty sure it will prove you wrong, I seriously hope there's some scum on this wagon as else it will mean we got a piss poor town. Wake me up at day 2...

You don't seem like the kind of player to "give up". If you genuinly thought the lynch was a mistake why not fight it?
It does seem like you were basically trying to let the lynch happen, but provide some defence for yourself in the likely case that he came up town("I told you guys you shouldn't have lynched him...")

So, yeah, I'm not as confident about this as I'd like to, but this game is dying(again), so vote tails

[safariguy5]

Vote Count
tails-3 (strike wolf, edocsil, Haggis)
naxus-1 (VioIet)
VioIet-1 (naxus)


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ga7]

Still haven't reread, just caught back on other games today so I guess it'll be for tomorrow morning.
To answer Haggis, after so much defense not even to save a power role or something but because of awful reasoning, I was fucking bored of it. At least with this kind of lynch you get wagon info, so as there was no particular reason to assume Mandy had a decisive role at that point, there was not much reason to keep fighting, especially when everything had already been said. It was frustrating but I was at least hoping to catch scum on that wagon should the lynch have reached. I don't really get how Commie got a simple "scum ready to say I told you so to town" from my whole behaviour of that day, because that's quite short sighted considering I did more than that. Anyway, that's all from memory so longer post tomowww

[ga7]

Reread everything. I hope activity will perk up, we haven't heard from half the people still since the game restarted.
I find Tails slightly suspicious, in the case Strike made this pops out for me:

vote Army of GOD for submarining. He's only posted to agree to some points, and hasn't really made solid arguments for suspects, for at least the last 5 pages. And he's one of the most active posters in the forums. Sounds like third-party scum trying to lay low to me...

-Tails

switching attention to AoG as someone else votes Karel, more defense of a scum buddy as well as calling out AoG as possible third party not mafia possible slip up.

However, as I find Karel the most likely scum, it makes more sense to me to check on Tails after we find out whether Karel is scum or not, especially since he gave reasonable explanation on the other points Strike had made.

One thing I hadn't noticed with Karel, besides the general scumminess and bandwagonning:

I think claiming Mr. White like that is clever.
However, looking at my own role, I can conclude that whether or not the roles are protagonists in the movies doesn't matter, and that whether or not they are maffia kind of depends on what they do compared to the average citizen.

Mr. White is not quite the nice person. is he not the one cutting off an ear and almost burning alive a man who won't speak up? That's what the maffia would do.
I don't think claiming Mr White should get you a walk-free with no specifications on mafia/town

2. Mr. White sounds like no friend of the town. As I said before, only someone who hasn't seen any Tarantino movie would expect the Town in this game to comprise morally impecable Mormon-like saints. Given the average character in a Tarantino flick, I definitly see Mr White as one of the good(better) guys, since he has some sort of a moral compass and doesn't kill people for the fun of it.

My role fits the model of good people being town perfectly, so as far as I know bad people (of which Mr White is one, damnit! He even shoots a cop in the closing scenes of Reservoir dogs!) are scum.

Unless your role has really interesting features, which if so, you please explain, you're scum to me.

I think there's a huge contradiction there. I think he must have been first looking at his real role, then at his fake claim. Looks like solid evidence to me.

Vote Karel

PS:

Hi guys. Sorry for not being able to resume playing this game, but I had RL and hardware issues.

P.S. Ga7 is completely right, you should always trust him.

Fixed

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Tails on the other hand stepped out to defend karel early when ga7 called him out on it he backed off

aargh I never defended karel. I merely thought aage was scummy so I seized the moment without any sort of evidence. Sorry that was all noobness.

One thing I hadn't noticed with Karel, besides the general scumminess and bandwagonning:

I think claiming Mr. White like that is clever.
However, looking at my own role, I can conclude that whether or not the roles are protagonists in the movies doesn't matter, and that whether or not they are maffia kind of depends on what they do compared to the average citizen.

Mr. White is not quite the nice person. is he not the one cutting off an ear and almost burning alive a man who won't speak up? That's what the maffia would do.
I don't think claiming Mr White should get you a walk-free with no specifications on mafia/town

2. Mr. White sounds like no friend of the town. As I said before, only someone who hasn't seen any Tarantino movie would expect the Town in this game to comprise morally impecable Mormon-like saints. Given the average character in a Tarantino flick, I definitly see Mr White as one of the good(better) guys, since he has some sort of a moral compass and doesn't kill people for the fun of it.

My role fits the model of good people being town perfectly, so as far as I know bad people (of which Mr White is one, damnit! He even shoots a cop in the closing scenes of Reservoir dogs!) are scum.

Unless your role has really interesting features, which if so, you please explain, you're scum to me.

I think there's a huge contradiction there. I think he must have been first looking at his real role, then at his fake claim. Looks like solid evidence to me.

Vote Karel

That's a very interesting theory you have there, Monsieur. I missed that the first time, and last read through I was addressing Strike's post. I think it warrants a FOS on karel. I'm not sure how solid that is, but it seems a good start.

-Tails

[karelpietertje]

@safariguy: will try not to need any more prods

Ga7, it's been a while, but I recall the posts that I made that you criticize.
I don't see the contradiction though:

I think claiming Mr. White like that is clever.
However, looking at my own role, I can conclude that whether or not the roles are protagonists in the movies doesn't matter, and that whether or not they are maffia kind of depends on what they do compared to the average citizen.

Mr. White is not quite the nice person. is he not the one cutting off an ear and almost burning alive a man who won't speak up? That's what the maffia would do.
I don't think claiming Mr White should get you a walk-free with no specifications on mafia/town

2. Mr. White sounds like no friend of the town. As I said before, only someone who hasn't seen any Tarantino movie would expect the Town in this game to comprise morally impecable Mormon-like saints. Given the average character in a Tarantino flick, I definitly see Mr White as one of the good(better) guys, since he has some sort of a moral compass and doesn't kill people for the fun of it.

My role fits the model of good people being town perfectly, so as far as I know bad people (of which Mr White is one, damnit! He even shoots a cop in the closing scenes of Reservoir dogs!) are scum.

Unless your role has really interesting features, which if so, you please explain, you're scum to me.

[/quote]

So I conclude 1 thing from my own role: whether or not protagonists in the movies (that is, the main characters, with whom you experience the movie.) does not matter to them being town or not.

The reason I can conclude this is because my own role fits the idea of good people (that is, people who would be considered good outside the movie) being town here.


In other words, if we would be watching a movie with a villain as main character, who is chased by a cop, even though we are cheering for the villain, the cop would be town in this mafia game, and the villain would be mafia.

I have to admit that looking back at my posts I initially thought they contradicted eachother too, but if you look at precisely what they say they say the same thing.

[karelpietertje]

bytheway, the way I saw it, this contradicted mandalorian.
he claimed mr. white then convinced most people mr. white would be a town role, right?

w/e.

[aage]

bytheway, the way I saw it, this contradicted mandalorian.
he claimed mr. white then convinced most people mr. white would be a town role, right?

w/e.

This is exactly (well, not exactly, but it's close to) what I've been saying all game. I don't get Mandy's claim. At all. And just to mention, it didn't bring us anywhere.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count
tails-3 (strike wolf, edocsil, Haggis)
naxus-1 (VioIet)
VioIet-1 (naxus)
karelp-1 (ga7


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[strike wolf]

I'm actually going to follow ga7 and unvote vote karel for the following reasons:

Vote safariguy

"Duck Tape"? wtf?

Wow... vote safariguy
I built a boat (and went on water with it for 15 minutes) out of Duct tape, I cannot help but agree with you

Vote Count

nag(2)-pmchugh, aage
mandy(2)-fir
tailgunner(2)-spurgistan, flores
Violet(1)-lalaland,
fircoal(1)-edocsil
spurgistan(1)-colton
MeDeFe(2)-AoG, aage
lalaland(1)-VioIet
aage(3)-tailgunner, nag, mandy

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Wait what?


the game maker is acting suspicious. using his own maths for the votings.
I believe a FOS is in order.

So his first two posts in thread both are criticizing the mod. As ga7 pointed out at another point (in a different thread I think...) going after the mod can often be a sign of a scum who's trying to not draw attention to themselves early in the game by voting for other players because voting the mod just looks silly not necessarily scummy. The fact that karel dedicated his first two posts to that strikes me as an odd move.

Yup. name, or I'll finish it.

Oh look his only other post from day 1. Scummarining much? Maybe just following the flow more by announcing you'll hammer the suspect that is probably at that point going to be lynched anyways?

Ok, just finished Jackie Brown. Great movie...different than most Tarintino films though. Only one person dead in the first hour or so! =O

I know right? I remember I enjoyed it less than the other movies... of course, I wasn't sober watching it, but w/e

@ga7, nagerous: Do you remember any game in which I was on top of it all, playing the game a 100%? No.
So that's definitely not a hint of me being mafia.

How about we go through our memory, and look at people that, after Day 1 discussion, could have been considered enemies of the victims? colton had a vote on spurgistan, aage had a vote on MeDeFe. This has to mean something.

Not much here but hey I was criticized for being too selective earlier not really a strong defense against ga's argument but it does address the issue that was brought forward against him. Either way I find that usually a defense that the person hasn't really acted that much differently than in other games is a worse reason to unvote someone than someone acting differently than they usually would in games is for voting that person. Don't have much to say about the rest of the post other than I'm not sure how much good looking for potential enemies of the victims would do. Probably would end in a wild goose chase. Least that's what I was thinking till I saw the next post:

So yeah, the votes on/by the two victims last night probably say nothing.
What about the votes that got the bandwagon on Violet started? It's very likely there's scum among those who voted Violet.
Not saying everybody is suspect. Hell, I almost finished the lynch myself if somebody else hadn't been quicker. Still, I do feel some people have been pushing the lynch on Violet too much on Day 1.


@ga7: Not really a defense, just saying you don't have a proper offense. Look, I understand why you suspect me. I'm just telling you, lurking has never been part of my strategy, and nor is it now.

A rather big turn around of your opinion there. I thought you believed that it "has to mean something". So the fishing for potential enemies wasn't going anywhere so you decide maybe I should get people looking at the vio wagon but quick make sure you add in the caution that they shouldn't be looking at people on that wagon blatantly while excusing your own support for that wagon. Don't be too upset I do agree that at least one person assiciated with that wagon looks scummy. Ill give you a hint he suggested he was willing to hammer but never actually put his vote on the wagon .

nagerous, Haggis_McMutton, you're ignoring my last post. Maybe you haven't kept up with the discussion so far, maybe you're doing it on purpose trying to make me look like an untrustworthy person, but in the comment you have been quoting, I was just trying to get people to constructively think about the facts.

As I said in the post you so conveniently ignored, I think scum most likely got Violet lynched day 1. looking back, I see Haggis posted a very offensive post right after Violet made her 'scummy' comment (which turned out to be completely innocent).

In the new light of ga7 and Haggis, the core of the people who got Violet lynched, trying to set me up for innocent behaviour, thus repeating the trick, I suspect they might be scum.

FoS Haggis + ga7

I must admit I love this post, its like the trifecta of scummy behavior. Quickly come out of hiding to defend yourself, paint the people who are accusing you as scum who must be intentionally taking your "innocent behavior" and transforming it into a scum tell, divert attention to another lead that could make someone look like scum oh look its two of the very people who were accusing you, put more of the notion you're an innocent townie out there and just to really sell it one quick example to make someone look like scum

1. Why the hell would Violet say that?
The only possible reason i can think of is that she's some sort of bulletproof townie and is trying to suggest she has a night action so that scum will try to kill her, but that's really a stretch.

Seriously, this is starting to feel like a Lost episode ...

Here it is bytheway, the process of making an innocent player with innocent behaviour look like scum.
Notice the subtle way of not actually accusing yet, just leaving the options open, but make the 'town'options look like farfetched. Exactly how I'm being treated.

Oh sorry you weren't done yet:

The rush on violet got started by mainly you and Haggis when she said "Let's vote No Lynch, I'm impatient", not before.

What no actual defense for yourself yet? Sorry just thought since you came back from...I think 5 days of hiding to make posts addressing your accusers you come up with more of a substantial defense for your actions.

I did not think of Violets comment as a scumtell.
No scum would show their urge for a nightkill like that. I thought of it more as somebody realizing how long a Day1 can take.

Of course, when she refused to claim, she had to be lynched, but I still think she was pressurized too quickly and too systematically.

Yes and you conveniently mention this after she was lynched rather than defend her early on when she was in the spotlight day 1. Of course if you were scum you probably didn't really care and let the lynch happen make a post as its about to come to ahead announcing your support for the lynch but don't vote just yet people may get angry with you when they realize she's actually a townie plus it leaves it open for you to criticize the lynch later on during day 2 especially when it serves to make your accusers look like the scum. Again no defense for the very actions you are being accused of.

Mandy didn't claim at all right? I feel like I'm missing something :S

so do we wanna get rid of him so we can actually get down to business?
or are we assuming that Mr White is a valid claim and we ignore Mandy?
Because in either case, we need to start to move this along and get some productive activity (and yes, i understand that lately i have been neither active or productive, but I'm trying to change that).

I think claiming Mr. White like that is clever.
However, looking at my own role, I can conclude that whether or not the roles are protagonists in the movies doesn't matter, and that whether or not they are maffia kind of depends on what they do compared to the average citizen.

Mr. White is not quite the nice person. is he not the one cutting off an ear and almost burning alive a man who won't speak up? That's what the maffia would do.
I don't think claiming Mr White should get you a walk-free with no specifications on mafia/town

Vote count?

mandy, claim please.

vote mandy

So one big post where he kind of misunderstands who the character is basing his argument on speculative reasoning based on his claimed role which really doesn't hold much weight and casting his behavior in a dark light doing something similar to what you accused your attackers of doing earlier against you and vio. Than some quick posts to make sure people you know you approve of the wagon before voting with the excuse that mandy refuses to claim. All the talk about ga7 and haggis who must have been scum from your arguments forgotten but I guess you never voted for them to begin with.

2. Mr. White sounds like no friend of the town. As I said before, only someone who hasn't seen any Tarantino movie would expect the Town in this game to comprise morally impecable Mormon-like saints. Given the average character in a Tarantino flick, I definitly see Mr White as one of the good(better) guys, since he has some sort of a moral compass and doesn't kill people for the fun of it.

My role fits the model of good people being town perfectly, so as far as I know bad people (of which Mr White is one, damnit! He even shoots a cop in the closing scenes of Reservoir dogs!) are scum.

Unless your role has really interesting features, which if so, you please explain, you're scum to me.

So ignores the rest of mandys argument to make another odd statement regarding his role and painting mandy to be as bad of a character as he can.

One thing I hadn't noticed with Karel, besides the general scumminess and bandwagonning:

I think claiming Mr. White like that is clever.
However, looking at my own role, I can conclude that whether or not the roles are protagonists in the movies doesn't matter, and that whether or not they are maffia kind of depends on what they do compared to the average citizen.

Mr. White is not quite the nice person. is he not the one cutting off an ear and almost burning alive a man who won't speak up? That's what the maffia would do.
I don't think claiming Mr White should get you a walk-free with no specifications on mafia/town

2. Mr. White sounds like no friend of the town. As I said before, only someone who hasn't seen any Tarantino movie would expect the Town in this game to comprise morally impecable Mormon-like saints. Given the average character in a Tarantino flick, I definitly see Mr White as one of the good(better) guys, since he has some sort of a moral compass and doesn't kill people for the fun of it.

My role fits the model of good people being town perfectly, so as far as I know bad people (of which Mr White is one, damnit! He even shoots a cop in the closing scenes of Reservoir dogs!) are scum.

Unless your role has really interesting features, which if so, you please explain, you're scum to me.

I think there's a huge contradiction there. I think he must have been first looking at his real role, then at his fake claim. Looks like solid evidence to me.

Vote Karel

This I kind of agree with kind of disagree, I don't think its a contradiction specifixcally but to me it looks like he's fishing a bit to try to make his argument stick.

Other than the above, I'm still suspicious of tails but of tails is mafia than I think karel is as well and considering what I gott from this latest reread I do feel that karel is more of a sure thing.

In conclusion..behold my mighty wall of text!

[ga7]

About the protagonist argument, you're right I might have misinterpreted it.
I find the argument a bit silly since as Mandy pointed out day one there's way too few good guys in Tarantino movies, and most of the guys in Reservoir dogs are better than most, but it's true the nuance between protagonist and good guy is valid.
Anyway I find useful the above post indexing all your posts as reading them together they're showing it's still the best case so far IMO. You clamored a lot being a good guy and since Saf advertised he gave great fake claims I wonder how good your claim could be

[safariguy5]

Vote Count
tails-2 (edocsil, Haggis)
naxus-1 (VioIet)
VioIet-1 (naxus)
karelp-1 (ga7, strike wolf)


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Nice going guys, no deadline yet.

[naxus]

Well with the whole protagonist/antagonist thing in the mix, i wont push for a Vi lynch today, as it is based upon mandy's crazy logic.

In lue of Strikes wall of text, impressive I might add, im gonna vote Karel

[aage]

I'll help the bandwagon grow.
vote karel

Also, Safariguy,

karelp-1 (ga7, strike wolf)

How are they 1 vote?