The 12 hour fog 'rule'

[L M S]

yeah about that.

God forbid our precious little snowflakes around here ever have a slight disadvantage in a game. Solution, don't play fog. Its part of it I say, dice are random, drops are random, starting team/person is random. There have been some bent out of shape peeps about this here 'rule' , for sure.
Oh wait it's not a rule. Yet, is expected.
It's expected under the guise of 'sportsmanship'.
lame.
Cant stand it personally. I abide, don't get me wrong, but I don't do it willingly.

What really bothers me about it is the expectation, followed by the reaction in an actual game when someone accidentally starts before the (non-rule) 'rule' time limit is over....calling for forfeits and such is ridiculous.

I say play the games, however, there must be a solution to satisfy everyone....

[trapyoung]

When enough of the shit around here is random, shouldn't we welcome any sort of addition that equalizes the bullshit? I hate when schmucks wait last to join in a tournament or clan game (games where I can't control whether it is fog or not) and then take first turn within 5 seconds to hide the map from you. It's absolutely lame. Now if you give 12 hours and they haven't responded, then play at will, but the cheap shit is going instantly - I don't have time to check constantly and it is gaming the system.

[L M S]

Everything we do is gaming the system TY. This is just an annoyance really...there have been serious uproars about it in games. I just think its stupid to get so worked up about it, crying foul, calling for forfeits, all that nonsense.
Its called gamesmanship, you take every advantage you can that is within the written rules.

[Ace Rimmer]

Lets not get us started on forfeits regarding stupid rules.

[L M S]

Lets not get us started on forfeits regarding stupid rules.

testify my brother.

[eddie2]

another bollocks rule for the site . no thankyou.

[Seulessliathan]

Since it was me who invented this "rule", here my thoughts about it:

First official use of this rule was in clan war Thota-TSM, and all players agreed about using this rule. We all decided that we want a fair battle, and there shouldn´t be any advantage in joining games lately.
Some of the players love fog, others don´t, and you can be sure that players who doesn´t like fog didn´t play it in the challenge.

I´m suprised that this "rule" has been used so many times now, but i think this is what players can agree about or not. It´s nothing official, and nobody is forced to use it.
When there is a tournament which uses this rule, you don´t need to join. When your clan decides to play a clan war using this rule, you should talk with your clanmates.

I don´t see anything bad about the 12 hour fog rule, because people are free to use it or ignore it, whatever they like best.

[L M S]

Since it was me who invented this "rule", here my thoughts about it:

First official use of this rule was in clan war Thota-TSM, and all players agreed about using this rule. We all decided that we want a fair battle, and there shouldn´t be any advantage in joining games lately.
Some of the players love fog, others don´t, and you can be sure that players who doesn´t like fog didn´t play it in the challenge.

I´m suprised that this "rule" has been used so many times now, but i think this is what players can agree about or not. It´s nothing official, and nobody is forced to use it.
When there is a tournament which uses this rule, you don´t need to join. When your clan decides to play a clan war using this rule, you should talk with your clanmates.

I don´t see anything bad about the 12 hour fog rule, because people are free to use it or ignore it, whatever they like best.

It's not the 'rule' that I take issue with Seul. Its the reaction; if someone screws up and mistakenly takes a turn or doesn't know the 'rule' is in effect, the other team...all but calls for a tar and feathering.

It is becoming the norm now too.

Will some smart person just write a script that snaps a shot at the beginning of a fog game so we can get past this? Either that or add 12 freakin hours of dead time to the start of every fog game or we can just not worry about it and play the games.....all legal gamesmanship included.

[Army of GOD]

There should be at least a 12 hour wait time, as if the game was manual deployment.

[nagerous]

I don't like it.

[Gold Knight]

If something is previously agreed to regarding it, then it should be adhered to. But I agree, it is not a standard rule but there are some that treat is as such. We almost ran into an issue with it in one of our challenges, but luckily it was taken care of before it became a huge issue...

[natty dread]

Perhaps Lack should implement a site function that shows each player the initial situation when they begin their first turn in fog games.

[L M S]

Perhaps Lack should implement a site function that shows each player the initial situation when they begin their first turn in fog games.

Similar to the show differences button?

Not a bad idea sir.

[trapyoung]

Similar to a suggestion I wrote 6 months ago that got lost in the hogwash that is the Suggestions forum.

[L M S]

No shit, we desperately need a no more hogwash rule.

Amen.

[safariguy5]

Hear hear LMS, if you didn't agree to it in the initial challenge thread, don't expect it to be implemented.

[Master Fenrir]

Will some smart person just write a script that snaps a shot at the beginning of a fog game so we can get past this?

I'm almost positive that I read a post by Dako saying this couldn't be done. You'd have to enter the game for an auto-snap to initiate, but if you enter the game, you're already there to take a snapshot yourself.

Either that or add 12 freakin hours of dead time to the start of every fog game

My main beef with the fog rule is that I think that the first few turns of a game are the most interesting. You see which strategies each team is going to use, you start coming up with different counters to them if they're just feints, etc. Those first few turns are the most exciting for me, so I'm anxious to get the game underway to see how things start to take shape. If fog games automatically came with maybe 6 hours of dead time instead of 12, I could probably calm myself enough to deal with it.

[Chewie1]

Isnt the clue in the spec.. FOG.
When you sign upto a game you see the settings so I dont get the fuss about this 12 hour gamesmanship rule.. unless its stated in 'Rules of Engagement' for a clan war it cant be enforced. And shouldnt be. Plus after all this 1 player gets 1 turn before a teammate can take a snapshot so how much are you really going to miss as you can roughly work out whats happened by using the log.

[L M S]

Just a reminder, I hate the 12 hour fog 'rule', I live with it because I have to.

I say just play the game and deal.

[jefjef]

I play 99% of my games fog. 90%+ I am team one. The creator of the game. I do not get to see every drop cuz it seems my opponents get 1st move 70%+ of the time.

SO FREAKING WHAT! Of the many many things I bitch about CC - NOT getting to see the drop IS NOT ONE OF THEM. If you have a problem with not seeing the drop in fog DO NOT PLAY IT.

AND it is very unsportsmanlike to wall your opponent: "Thanks for taking your turn before I could see the drop asshole." as had very recently been done in a clan challenge to a KOA member.

Have a nice day!

[shocked439]

The 12 hour rule is bullshit. If it's your turn and your on the site ready to take your turn effing take it.

Don't whine and cry about not seeing the drop be thankful you got a turn and plan accordingly. It's foggy for a reason

[trapyoung]

I'm pretty stunned at the amount of support for the bullshit play of grabbing a fog game late, lucking into first turn and then abusing the game. You may be able to tell from a fort how much some douche has, but you may or may not see that Red has 3 of 4 territories in a bonus, or there's a neutral and if you move and clear, you can fake someone into thinking you have the bonus and waste efforts there. If you can't wait, common courtesy would say to inform the other party about what they would have seen. It's just like other strategy games where fog of war is conducted, you see what happens at the beginning. It's just other games don't have games that begin while all members are not present and, therefore, the opportunity for abuse is present here. It's utter bullshit to game the system and defend it as no big deal and while I largely avoid the foe list and rating people, I've begun to use it accordingly. I don't whine in game chat, I may say something through team chat, but fact is the tactic is classless.

[jefjef]

I'm pretty stunned at the amount of support for the bullshit play of grabbing a fog game late, lucking into first turn and then abusing the game. You may be able to tell from a fort how much some douche has, but you may or may not see that Red has 3 of 4 territories in a bonus, or there's a neutral and if you move and clear, you can fake someone into thinking you have the bonus and waste efforts there. If you can't wait, common courtesy would say to inform the other party about what they would have seen. It's just like other strategy games where fog of war is conducted, you see what happens at the beginning. It's just other games don't have games that begin while all members are not present and, therefore, the opportunity for abuse is present here. It's utter bullshit to game the system and defend it as no big deal and while I largely avoid the foe list and rating people, I've begun to use it accordingly. I don't whine in game chat, I may say something through team chat, but fact is the tactic is classless.

What? Re read my post. I am one of those that create the game. That get the games joined. That normally don't get 1st move or see's the drop. What you are complaining about is part of the fun of fog. Counting terts and reading logs and guessing the rest.

AND actually a 12 hour fog rule could conceivably cause a missed turn when it shouldn't. Not everyone is able to play CC except in a limited window of time.

[shocked439]

I'm pretty stunned at the amount of support for the bullshit play of grabbing a fog game late, lucking into first turn and then abusing the game. You may be able to tell from a fort how much some douche has, but you may or may not see that Red has 3 of 4 territories in a bonus, or there's a neutral and if you move and clear, you can fake someone into thinking you have the bonus and waste efforts there. If you can't wait, common courtesy would say to inform the other party about what they would have seen. It's just like other strategy games where fog of war is conducted, you see what happens at the beginning. It's just other games don't have games that begin while all members are not present and, therefore, the opportunity for abuse is present here. It's utter bullshit to game the system and defend it as no big deal and while I largely avoid the foe list and rating people, I've begun to use it accordingly. I don't whine in game chat, I may say something through team chat, but fact is the tactic is classless.

I'm not advocating using your description as a tactic, however the whole point of a foggy game is you don't know. Of all the bullshit tactics to be up in arms over this one seems comparatively mild especially when compared to some of the bullshit freestyle skirting that goes on.

The 12 hour rule is a courtesy it's not an absolute and should not be treated as such. If it means that much to you don't create public foggy games. Make em private and negotiate those terms. If it were a rule it would be enforceable.

[InsomniaRed]

Lets not get us started on forfeits regarding stupid rules.

Yeah fog rules are the least of our problems if we consider all previous complaints of 'rules'.