The Balkan Peninsula [FF] --Feb 2nd 2010--

[MrBenn]

The mountains on Montana have been added on a recent update; those territories did border one another up until very recently

[resitnecdan]

Just a reply about the Romanian territory names. If you want to use Romanian names (like I see you did for some of the countries) please use:
Crişana and not Criaşna
Transilvania and not Transylvania
Moldova and not Moldavia

If you want to use English names than just correct the first one and keep Transylvania and Moldavia.

[Leehar]

Just a reply about the Romanian territory names. If you want to use Romanian names (like I see you did for some of the countries) please use:
Crişana and not Criaşna
Transilvania and not Transylvania
Moldova and not Moldavia

If you want to use English names than just correct the first one and keep Transylvania and Moldavia.

It does say crisana in the dropdown box(and the xml as well I guess), while criasna on the map

[MrBenn]

Just a reply about the Romanian territory names. If you want to use Romanian names (like I see you did for some of the countries) please use:
Crişana and not Criaşna
Transilvania and not Transylvania
Moldova and not Moldavia

If you want to use English names than just correct the first one and keep Transylvania and Moldavia.

It does say crisana in the dropdown box(and the xml as well I guess), while criasna on the map

Yeah - I'd corrected the name once, but had to redo the map after making a schoolboy error and overwriting my working file.

I can correct the name of Crisana on the map image easily enough.
I'll also rename Transylvania, but I'm not too sure about Moldavia... this map shows that Moldavia should be divided into two regions - Moldova and Basarabia.

Hmmm..... I now wonder if I should remove Bucuresti in favour of Basarabia?

[resitnecdan]

Well your map with Basarabia is a map of the "Greater Romania" the teritory that we had between the world wars, and the teritory that has Romanians living on it. However, the current republic of Romania (and I am under the impression that you want a map with the current diplomatic countries) does not include Basarabia. Basarabia constitutes right now the country of Moldova, which is an independent republic in its own right.
To note the difference between the region of Moldova, that is in Romania and the country Moldova.

[sm8900]

sorry if anyone has already said this; could you please add labels for each region. ie, perhaps some light grey lettering showing the region's name, over the terrirtories within a region? or alternately, a thick colored border around each bonus region, to show its borders around the territories? just an idea. I'm playing on this map now.

[AndyDufresne]

At times I did struggle for moment getting my baring of the bonus zones.


--Andy

[MrBenn]

sorry if anyone has already said this; could you please add labels for each region. ie, perhaps some light grey lettering showing the region's name, over the terrirtories within a region? or alternately, a thick colored border around each bonus region, to show its borders around the territories? just an idea. I'm playing on this map now.

Each bonus region is a different colour, and the border between each bonus region is thicker that the border between territories in the same region... Are you really struggling to tell the bonus regions apart?

[MrBenn]

Well your map with Basarabia is a map of the "Greater Romania" the teritory that we had between the world wars, and the teritory that has Romanians living on it. However, the current republic of Romania (and I am under the impression that you want a map with the current diplomatic countries) does not include Basarabia. Basarabia constitutes right now the country of Moldova, which is an independent republic in its own right.
To note the difference between the region of Moldova, that is in Romania and the country Moldova.

I knew that... just had a funny five minutes (I blame it on trying to read Wikipedia in Romanian)!

Just a reply about the Romanian territory names. If you want to use Romanian names (like I see you did for some of the countries) please use:
Crişana and not Criaşna
Transilvania and not Transylvania
Moldova and not Moldavia

I can correct the name of Crisana on the map image easily enough.
I'll also rename Transylvania, but I'm not too sure about Moldavia...

I'm thinking it would be better to leave Moldavia in order to differentiate between the Moldova region of Romania and Moldova the country...

[Victor Sullivan]

Despite its simplicity, this map is astounding! Kudos to Zeak and Benn. The gameplay is very well done and surprisingly fresh. I think the small bonuses being largely in the middle makes the map not so outlier-focused. And the graphics are just stunning - easy to see the bonus areas at a mere glance. So, bravo on a job well done both of you! Job well done...

[resitnecdan]

Just a reply about the Romanian territory names. If you want to use Romanian names (like I see you did for some of the countries) please use:
Crişana and not Criaşna
Transilvania and not Transylvania
Moldova and not Moldavia

I can correct the name of Crisana on the map image easily enough.
I'll also rename Transylvania, but I'm not too sure about Moldavia...

I'm thinking it would be better to leave Moldavia in order to differentiate between the Moldova region of Romania and Moldova the country...

Well since you don't have the country of Moldova on the map I don't see the possibility of confusion. I really see the current name of Moldavia sticking right out there on the map. But it might just be my patriotism talking

[MrBenn]

Just a reply about the Romanian territory names. If you want to use Romanian names (like I see you did for some of the countries) please use:
Crişana and not Criaşna
Transilvania and not Transylvania
Moldova and not Moldavia

I can correct the name of Crisana on the map image easily enough.
I'll also rename Transylvania, but I'm not too sure about Moldavia...

I'm thinking it would be better to leave Moldavia in order to differentiate between the Moldova region of Romania and Moldova the country...

Well since you don't have the country of Moldova on the map I don't see the possibility of confusion. I really see the current name of Moldavia sticking right out there on the map. But it might just be my patriotism talking

I'm sure I had Moldova on the map? Perhaps I took it off when I cropped more closely to Romania? In that case, I shall amend all three... I might even do it this evening!

[resitnecdan]

There's not much point in putting Moldova in a Balkan Peninsula map anyway. Actually, according to many, Romania isn't in the Balkans either.

[MrBenn]

There's not much point in putting Moldova in a Balkan Peninsula map anyway. Actually, according to many, Romania isn't in the Balkans either.

I was referring to a label for Moldova (the country) in the unplayable grey area, which was there in some of the earlier drafts.

Anyway, here are the updated map images:




And here is the updated XML:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/9/2 ... kans04.xml

[J.Law]

Great Map! Everything was very clear and well organized. I played with 5 others and it proved to be a great map to play with a mid/large size number of people.

[iancanton]

we've solved the 18-region starts, but not the 2-region bosnia bonus. the last 20 completed automatic-deploy standard 1v1 games that i examined (Game 8577035to Game 8595150 had 3 such cases, with the bosnia player winning in all 3 games. while the odd +1 bosnia bonus being dropped doesn't make the map unfair on its own, there is a very simple fix that requires only minimal adjustment to the xml and no adjustment to the graphics files.

there are currently 3 sets of start positions, which i list below. note that none includes a bosnia region.

set 1: primorska, shkoder, skopje, kirklareli, muntenia.
set 2: kranjska, tirana, pelagonia, tekirdag, dubrovnik.
set 3: stajerska, fier, vardar, istanbul, raska.

i recommend changing to 2 sets of start positions.

set 1: primorska, shkoder, skopje, kirklareli, republika srpska.
set 2: delete.
set 3: stajerska, fier, vardar, istanbul, fbih.

this will allot 1 bosnia region (plus 18 others, making a total of 19) to each player in 1v1, with the start positions being ignored for games with 3 to 8 players.

ian.

[MrBenn]

The proposed fix for the Bosnia bonus has no impact on 3-player games, which massively increases the chance of dropping a bonus on a 3-player game.

I've just done some very quick analysis of the 1v1 games covering the gamespan you mentioned above (although included all 1v1 gametypes)... In any case, 21/28 (75%) of cases, the first player to attack won the game. 5 of the 28 games (17%) started with the first player holding the Bosnia bonus (in line with the 16.8% that was calculated by my bonus calculator spreadsheet). Of the seven games where the first player lost the game, I would suggest in at least 2 games (28%) this was due to poor tactics early on in the game (ie attacking neutrals in the first couple of rounds). I forgot to observe how many of the players attacked FBIH or Republika Srpska on the opening turn, but recall seeing at least one or two (and actually think this would be slightly higher)...

Anyway, I'm still firmly in the camp that would suggest a +1 bonus that may be dropped in around 16% of cases has minimal impact, and I'd rather not increase the odds of dropping a bonus on 3p games as a tradeoff....

Anyway, here's my rough analysis of the 28 1v1 games:

Spoiler

1. 8577035 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses (having attacked 2x neutral terrs in round 2)
2. 8577060 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
3. 8577362 Bosnia dropped to 1st player. 1st player wins
4. 8577833 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses
5. 8577898 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
6. 8578215 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
7. 8578616 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
8. 8578798 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
9. 8579988 Bosnia dropped to 1st player. 1st player wins
10. 8580664 Bosnia dropped to 1st player. 1st player wins
11. 8580716 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
12. 8581905 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
13. 8581943 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
14. 8582094 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses
15. 8583046 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses
16. 8583588 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
17. 8585120 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses
18. 8588731 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
19. 8589544 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
20. 8589744 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses
21. 8590422 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
22. 8590423 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
23. 8592257 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
24. 8593304 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins
25. 8593526 Bosnia dropped to 1st player. 1st player wins
26. 8593763 No first-round bonuses. 1st player loses (having attacked 2x neutral terrs in round 1)
27. 8594300 Bosnia dropped to 1st player. 1st player wins
28. 8595150 No first-round bonuses. 1st player wins

[Ace Rimmer]

I don't like the legend. Kosovo is a +1 by itself, and is required for the +5 Serbia bonus. I read the legend as saying you get the +5 and the +1, not just the +5. I'm not sure how that should be spelled out better without taking up a lot of space. Maybe "Kosovo +1 if held without Serbia bonus" but that's long.

[MrBenn]

I don't like the legend. Kosovo is a +1 by itself, and is required for the +5 Serbia bonus. I read the legend as saying you get the +5 and the +1, not just the +5. I'm not sure how that should be spelled out better without taking up a lot of space. Maybe "Kosovo +1 if held without Serbia bonus" but that's long.

The bonus name in the XML is something like "Serbia (and Kosovo)". I'd rather not change anything now, to be honest, unless it was completely incomprehensible?

[thenobodies80]

I don't like the legend. Kosovo is a +1 by itself, and is required for the +5 Serbia bonus. I read the legend as saying you get the +5 and the +1, not just the +5. I'm not sure how that should be spelled out better without taking up a lot of space. Maybe "Kosovo +1 if held without Serbia bonus" but that's long.

The bonus name in the XML is something like "Serbia (and Kosovo)". I'd rather not change anything now, to be honest, unless it was completely incomprehensible?

I don't think it is incomprehensible and currently it's hard to me to think about it like a real issue.

Just a thought (and maybe is a stupid idea) but add something like (only kosovo +1)?
Said that, I must admit that i don't know how you can fit it into the map....

[iancanton]

thanks for redrawing the danube and balancing the greece bonus against the romanian one.

The proposed fix for the Bosnia bonus has no impact on 3-player games, which massively increases the chance of dropping a bonus on a 3-player game.

the analysis u gave above is convincing!

I don't like the legend. Kosovo is a +1 by itself, and is required for the +5 Serbia bonus. I read the legend as saying you get the +5 and the +1, not just the +5. I'm not sure how that should be spelled out better without taking up a lot of space. Maybe "Kosovo +1 if held without Serbia bonus" but that's long.

The bonus name in the XML is something like "Serbia (and Kosovo)". I'd rather not change anything now, to be honest, unless it was completely incomprehensible?

it's not completely incomprehensible. let's see if anyone else mentions it. u can try indenting kosovo in the legend a bit - solar system does this - though it won't look as good with those brackets too.

ian.

[DJENRE]

Nice map. But I don't know why, I'm not able to win it yet... lol

You should receive a pm about MapMaker Killer serie, let me know if you interested in being added.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 9&t=137470

[thenobodies80]

• • • • • • Quenching

---The Beta period has concluded for the Balkan Peninsula Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready to be released into live play.

Congratulations MrBenn and ZeakCytho, your shiny new medals are well-earned


Conquer Club, enjoy!

• • • • • • 

thenobodies80

[natty dread]

Congrats!

[Riskismy]

Yay! Grats!