Canadian Federal election. 2011

[Baron Von PWN]

I suppose its no surprise that after the opposition parties declared the government in contempt of parliament, that they have decided to vote against the Budget bill. Barring an epic fail by either the liberals or the Bloc Canada is heading for another election very soon.

Thoughts? Commentary? Voting intentions?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... -main.html

I think I will either be voting Liberal or NDP this election (changing my vote from Green party.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... -vote.html

[Ray Rider]

Was wondering what my fellow cannucks might think about this, (Americans can comment too if you feel like it).

TLDR: The ruling conservatives who are running a minority parliament (meaning they need the consent of opposition parties in order to govern), are being called out by some of the opposition parties for what they consider to be shady dealings. More in the linked article.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... ml?ref=rss

Yeah, the Conservatives have become entangled in a number of scandals recently, which is quite disappointing. I mean, the Conservatives took over from the last government precisely because the Liberals were caught up in scandals; Mr. Harper should have know to steer clear of anything like that, especially being the smart man that he is. I mean, why didn't he fire Bev Oda after she lied about editing that piece of legislation? I'm glad the "not" was in there, but it should have been in there from the start, not inserted after it had been voted on. And why not tell parliament what the next-generation fighter jets will cost? The Liberals were the ones pushing for these jets originally, and they are badly needed. Seems like the Conservatives are only able to stay in power thanks to the opposition's bumbling "visiting professor" Michael Ignatieff; and what choice is there besides him? The only other options are the separatists (would split our country in an instant) or the socialists (would spend the country into oblivion in a jiffy); and a coalition of the three is only more disturbing.

Anyway, I'm still thankful the government hasn't been pushing through carbon taxes and gun control.

[Baron Von PWN]

Was wondering what my fellow cannucks might think about this, (Americans can comment too if you feel like it).

TLDR: The ruling conservatives who are running a minority parliament (meaning they need the consent of opposition parties in order to govern), are being called out by some of the opposition parties for what they consider to be shady dealings. More in the linked article.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... ml?ref=rss

Yeah, the Conservatives have become entangled in a number of scandals recently, which is quite disappointing. I mean, the Conservatives took over from the last government precisely because the Liberals were caught up in scandals; Mr. Harper should have know to steer clear of anything like that, especially being the smart man that he is. I mean, why didn't he fire Bev Oda after she lied about editing that piece of legislation? I'm glad the "not" was in there, but it should have been in there from the start, not inserted after it had been voted on. And why not tell parliament what the next-generation fighter jets will cost? The Liberals were the ones pushing for these jets originally, and they are badly needed. Seems like the Conservatives are only able to stay in power thanks to the opposition's bumbling "visiting professor" Michael Ignatieff; and what choice is there besides him? The only other options are the separatists (would split our country in an instant) or the socialists (would spend the country into oblivion in a jiffy); and a coalition of the three is only more disturbing.

Anyway, I'm still thankful the government hasn't been pushing through carbon taxes and gun control.

I think the Harper government has been pretty awful, at the whole open government thing or even the government thing in general. They've pushed through stupid bills, lied about those bills and broken their own law. I mean they killed the long form census for gods sake it can't get much stupider.

I think a carbon tax would have been a good thing, unfortunately Dion wasn't a very good at English. I'm not a big fan of gun control either(in the form of the gun registry), it isin't a cost effective method. IF only the opposition could get its act together, we would see the end of the Harper gov. Unfortunetly Steve is the better politician

[Baron Von PWN]

I suppose its no surprise that after the opposition parties declared the government in contempt of parliament, that they have decided to vote against the Budget bill. Barring an epic fail by either the liberals or the Bloc Canada is heading for another election very soon.

Thoughts? Commentary? Voting intentions?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... -main.html

I think I will either be voting Liberal or NDP this election (changing my vote from Green party.

[Nendreel]

I suppose its no surprise that after the opposition parties declared the government in contempt of parliament, that they have decided to vote against the Budget bill. Barring an epic fail by either the liberals or the Bloc Canada is heading for another election very soon.

Thoughts? Commentary? Voting intentions?

Yeah, but they've been talking about elections for what 3, 4 years now. I'd be somewhat surprised if it actually happened.

I have no idea who I'd vote for though. Conservatives are getting involved in too many scandals. Liberals are not exactly inspiring confidence lately. NDP is, well the NDP, they're a nice third party, but not who I want to lead our country.

It just may be Green Party's time to shine...




god help us all.

[joe snuffy]

All Hail Canuckistan!!!

[Baron Von PWN]

I suppose its no surprise that after the opposition parties declared the government in contempt of parliament, that they have decided to vote against the Budget bill. Barring an epic fail by either the liberals or the Bloc Canada is heading for another election very soon.

Thoughts? Commentary? Voting intentions?

Yeah, but they've been talking about elections for what 3, 4 years now. I'd be somewhat surprised if it actually happened.

I have no idea who I'd vote for though. Conservatives are getting involved in too many scandals. Liberals are not exactly inspiring confidence lately. NDP is, well the NDP, they're a nice third party, but not who I want to lead our country.

It just may be Green Party's time to shine...




god help us all.

Yeah i agree none of the parties have been entirely enticing. However it looks like we really will have an election as all three opposition leaders have stated they would vote against the bill. This basically forces themselves into corners.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... itics.html

[Timminz]

I'm not exactly happy with another election, but that's what happens when you have minority governments who like to pretend they have a majority. It's a shame really. Minority governments can be really beneficial, when they work. A lot of the best public policy stems from the co-operation across party lines that's needed to run an effective minority. In that vein, I would love to see someone other than Harper win a minority, and have a proper go at it.

[saxitoxin]

I think I will either be voting Liberal

or NDP this election

(changing my vote from Green party.

[Baron Von PWN]

I think I will either be voting Liberal

or NDP this election

(changing my vote from Green party.

I know, I know, Greens meet my politics the closest (socially liberal fiscally moderate), NDP is a little to fiscally liberal, the Liberals are... well the liberals. However our political system as it is, it makes it very hard to vote for a small party that will never get elected(now if we had a PR system totally different story), and frankly I'll vote for anyone with a semi decent chance of beating the cons.

I'm not exactly happy with another election, but that's what happens when you have minority governments who like to pretend they have a majority. It's a shame really. Minority governments can be really beneficial, when they work. A lot of the best public policy stems from the co-operation across party lines that's needed to run an effective minority. In that vein, I would love to see someone other than Harper win a minority, and have a proper go at it.

Yeah its part of the reason, I wouldn't have minded letting the coalition have a go from a while back. I have just been generally disgusted by the cons government style for the past few years. Living in Ottawa I get frequent first hand accounts of how they treat the professional bureaucracy(not well).

[Ray Rider]

I think I will either be voting Liberal

or NDP this election

(changing my vote from Green party.

Looks like he's a double (or triple!)minded man! lol jk

Yeah, it looks like an election will be forced based on rejection of the budget, but it seems rather unwise for the opposition to do so. That will put the emphasis on spending and the economy (where the Conservatives want the focus to be) rather than on integrity and openness (which is where the real problems are). According to the polls, the Conservatives are just shy of a majority, so even if those polls are overly optimistic and they stay where they are, we're still saddled with a Conservative minority. Only this time the Liberals would probably form a coalition with the NDP and and Bloc to form a government. As far as I can see, this would only make them still less popular--to have forced a 300 million dollar election with virtually no change in the result, and then join up with the separatists.

If by some weird stroke of the luck the Conservatives were to gain a majority, it would be interesting to see how their policies and spending would change. Would they move farther right, fiscally and socially, back towards the old Reform party ideals, or are they more a reincarnation of the big-tent Progressive Conservatives? We'll never know until they have a majority, and when they do show their true colors, some will be very happy and others will be very indignant; but by then it will be too late.

If by some other weird stroke of luck the Liberals were to gain a minority, it would be interesting to see what type of policies and spending they would be able to implement. I don't know Ignatieff very well or what he stands for (which is how a lot of Canadians feel about him, I'm sure). I'll learn a lot more about him during the election though, no doubt. In the mean time, unless a person is very exceptional, I'm no supporter of a guy ruling Canada who's hardly even lived in the country half his life! The birth certificate quarrel in the US is pretty minor in comparison.

Unless something major comes up, I'm voting Conservative in the next election. Yes, they've been doing some pretty stupid things lately, but it's still pretty minor compared to the scandals that rocked the Liberals just a few years back, and the NDP/Bloc/Green aren't even an option. Although I must say, out of all the leaders, Jack Layton definitely has the best charisma! You need more than charisma to run a country successfully, however--just look at the US.

Btw, I'm curious what Canadians here think of Senate reform?

[Ray Rider]

I'm not exactly happy with another election, but that's what happens when you have minority governments who like to pretend they have a majority. It's a shame really. Minority governments can be really beneficial, when they work. A lot of the best public policy stems from the co-operation across party lines that's needed to run an effective minority. In that vein, I would love to see someone other than Harper win a minority, and have a proper go at it.

Yeah its part of the reason, I wouldn't have minded letting the coalition have a go from a while back. I have just been generally disgusted by the cons government style for the past few years. Living in Ottawa I get frequent first hand accounts of how they treat the professional bureaucracy(not well).

Yeah, I heard some reports of that too from a friend-of-a-friend working as a pageboy (if that's the correct term) in parliament. I didn't believe him at first, but with what been going on recently, it does seem to be true.

[Baron Von PWN]

I'm not exactly happy with another election, but that's what happens when you have minority governments who like to pretend they have a majority. It's a shame really. Minority governments can be really beneficial, when they work. A lot of the best public policy stems from the co-operation across party lines that's needed to run an effective minority. In that vein, I would love to see someone other than Harper win a minority, and have a proper go at it.

Yeah its part of the reason, I wouldn't have minded letting the coalition have a go from a while back. I have just been generally disgusted by the cons government style for the past few years. Living in Ottawa I get frequent first hand accounts of how they treat the professional bureaucracy(not well).

Yeah, I heard some reports of that too from a friend-of-a-friend working as a pageboy (if that's the correct term) in parliament. I didn't believe him at first, but with what been going on recently, it does seem to be true.

In Ottawa its hard to spit and not hit a federal bureaucrat so i know a number of them (none of them are very happy, this may be selection bias of course so take with a grain of salt.), we also probably get more coverage of that kind of stuff in our local papers as a result. Anyways allot of what they have been doing is ignoring advice of federal bureaucrats then saying those same bureaucrats advised them to make the political decisions they were advised against (like the scraping of the long form census), oh and bureaucrats and federal scientists can't talk to media unless authorized by the prime ministers office.

I agree with your point in your other post about the opposition making a poor tactical choice, but really if they can't support the budget they can't support the budget. I think there is a number of issues that the Liberals and the NDP could gain traction on in an election and in such an atmosphere may be able to gain the seats needed to be able to form a minority coalition government, though my confidence in Igy being able to manage such a thing is low, I think Jack might be too principled.

On senate reform, I think something should be done, but I'm not sure what. It would be interesting if the Senate were to be elected on a proportional representation basis(based on total parliamentary election results), allowing it to be slightly less politically charged than parliament as its make up would be a by-product of parliamentary elections. Basically i don't feel it should be on par with parliament and should keep its role as a primarily advisory body, but it could be more representative/ democratic.

[saxitoxin]

Senate

The Senate should continue as a house-of-review with the current regional distribution, but, in lieu of life senators there should be citizens selected by a lottery from the voter rolls - in the same way as a jury - to serve concurrently with the tenure of the Commons. This would guarantee it was apolitical - as there'd be no way to position oneself for selection - but would still be democratic. It will probably have to be called something other than the Senate, though.

Whaddya guys think of that?

[Baron Von PWN]

Senate

The Senate should continue as a house-of-review with the current regional distribution, but, in lieu of life senators there should be citizens selected by a lottery from the voter rolls - in the same way as a jury - to serve concurrently with the tenure of the Commons. This would guarantee it was apolitical - as there'd be no way to position oneself for selection - but would still be democratic. It will probably have to be called something other than the Senate, though.

Whaddya guys think of that?

its an interesting idea, but the problem is the senate overlooks legal matters. So I would like it better if they were selected from say Canada's judges or legal professionals.

[saxitoxin]

Senate

The Senate should continue as a house-of-review with the current regional distribution, but, in lieu of life senators there should be citizens selected by a lottery from the voter rolls - in the same way as a jury - to serve concurrently with the tenure of the Commons. This would guarantee it was apolitical - as there'd be no way to position oneself for selection - but would still be democratic. It will probably have to be called something other than the Senate, though.

Whaddya guys think of that?

its an interesting idea, but the problem is the senate overlooks legal matters. So I would like it better if they were selected from say Canada's judges or legal professionals.

all of the Senate's initiating power can be transferred to the Commons leaving it to sit just as a review body

but I could be willing to accept if the lottery were held among members of the Canadian Bar instead of the public at-large, provided no elections were held and it was an equal-chance drawing

[Baron Von PWN]

Senate

The Senate should continue as a house-of-review with the current regional distribution, but, in lieu of life senators there should be citizens selected by a lottery from the voter rolls - in the same way as a jury - to serve concurrently with the tenure of the Commons. This would guarantee it was apolitical - as there'd be no way to position oneself for selection - but would still be democratic. It will probably have to be called something other than the Senate, though.

Whaddya guys think of that?

its an interesting idea, but the problem is the senate overlooks legal matters. So I would like it better if they were selected from say Canada's judges or legal professionals.

all of the Senate's initiating power can be transferred to the Commons leaving it to sit just as a review body

but I could be willing to accept if the lottery were held among members of the Canadian Bar instead of the public at-large, provided no elections were held and it was an equal-chance drawing

That's what I mean yeah. Though likely you would have to have the lottery shaped in such a way you had a somewhat representative distribution from all the provinces.

[saxitoxin]

Senate

The Senate should continue as a house-of-review with the current regional distribution, but, in lieu of life senators there should be citizens selected by a lottery from the voter rolls - in the same way as a jury - to serve concurrently with the tenure of the Commons. This would guarantee it was apolitical - as there'd be no way to position oneself for selection - but would still be democratic. It will probably have to be called something other than the Senate, though.

Whaddya guys think of that?

its an interesting idea, but the problem is the senate overlooks legal matters. So I would like it better if they were selected from say Canada's judges or legal professionals.

all of the Senate's initiating power can be transferred to the Commons leaving it to sit just as a review body

but I could be willing to accept if the lottery were held among members of the Canadian Bar instead of the public at-large, provided no elections were held and it was an equal-chance drawing

That's what I mean yeah. Though likely you would have to have the lottery shaped in such a way you had a somewhat representative distribution from all the provinces.

OK, so we're agreed. What are our next steps?

I can get 2 crates of dynamite to Kenata by Monday. Baron - can you seduce Johnstone so he's not looking? Timminz can lend you his Drakkar Noir.

[Timminz]

The Senate should continue as a house-of-review with the current regional distribution, but, in lieu of life senators there should be citizens selected by a lottery from the voter rolls - in the same way as a jury - to serve concurrently with the tenure of the Commons. This would guarantee it was apolitical - as there'd be no way to position oneself for selection - but would still be democratic. It will probably have to be called something other than the Senate, though.

Whaddya guys think of that?

its an interesting idea, but the problem is the senate overlooks legal matters. So I would like it better if they were selected from say Canada's judges or legal professionals.

all of the Senate's initiating power can be transferred to the Commons leaving it to sit just as a review body

but I could be willing to accept if the lottery were held among members of the Canadian Bar instead of the public at-large, provided no elections were held and it was an equal-chance drawing

That's what I mean yeah. Though likely you would have to have the lottery shaped in such a way you had a somewhat representative distribution from all the provinces.

OK, so we're agreed. What are our next steps?

I can get 2 crates of dynamite to Kenata by Monday. Baron - can you seduce Johnstone so he's not looking? Timminz can lend you his Drakkar Noir.

POTY 2011

[Baron Von PWN]

I can get 2 crates of dynamite to Kenata by Monday. Baron - can you seduce Johnstone so he's not looking? Timminz can lend you his Drakkar Noir.

I was thinking I'd write my mp.

[Baron Von PWN]

I've altered the title to reflect the fact that the opposition is defeating the government not on the budget bill but on a motion finding the Harper government in contempt of parliament.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... -vote.html

Why the government is being found in contempt of parliament.

Earlier this week, the procedure and House affairs committee tabled a report that said the government is in contempt of Parliament for refusing to supply enough information on the cost of the F-35 fighter jets, their justice system reforms and their projections for corporate profits and tax rates. The Conservative MPs on the committee attached a dissenting minority report. Debate on that report has started, but the Conservatives control when it will continue. They have until Wednesday to allow debate to finish, and can put off the vote on the report until the following Wednesday.

This is all part of the wider reality of how closed this government is.

We don't want..... Canadians don't want an election!

LOL

[Baron Von PWN]

On this day, March 25, 2011 the Conservative Party of Stephen Harper and his "Harper Government" was found to be in contempt of Parliament and lost the motion of non confidence.

Votes: yea: 156 Votes: nay: 145

Motion carried.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... efeat.html

[saxitoxin]

On this day, March 25, 2011 the Conservative Party of Stephen Harper and his "Harper Government" was found to be in contempt of Parliament and lost the motion of non confidence.

Votes: yea: 156 Votes: nay: 145

Motion carried.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... efeat.html

Hopefully you're typing this from the Vice-Regal bedroom. We don't have a lot of time to f*ck around on the computer if we're gonna put our plan in motion. I already have my Cimarron loaded with sticks of TNT. Timminz - go ahead and spring for the priority overnight to get your Drakkar Noir to Baron. I'll approve the surcharge. THX.

Plan B - if Baron can't seal the deal with Johnstone, I have Johnny Rockets and 2dimes standing by with three Diet Mt. Dew bottles filled with bees they'll drop off the roof of the Civic Centre. That'll create enough of a commotion to allow me to get close enough to the Hill without being noticed.

[keiths31]

Looking forward to the election. It is still early, but all indications point to another minority Conservative Government...which will be a 2 or 3 hundred million dollar exercise that results in the status quo. If the Liberals manage to bungle their campaign and hand the Conservatives a majority, then they will have shot themselves in the foot at the cost of their image.

Should be a fun few weeks...

[Baron Von PWN]

A list of some of the Harper governments "accomplishments" for anyone wondering who they should vote for.

* Prorogued parliament to stay in power (2X BONUS)
* Obstructing access to information requests
* Changing favourable government press releases to say "Harper Government" instead of "Government of Canada"
* Do nothing about Omar Khadr
* Stacked the senate despite wanting to abolish it, then using it to prevent a opposition bill from passing (appointed people blocking elected people).
* Forged documents (quite badly) to cancel funding
* Withheld information about the cost of the F35 and prison programs from parliament.
* Want to spend a tonne of money on copying the american penal system.
* $20 Billion for F35's being developed in another country
* Sacked the head of veteran affairs when he stood up for veterans
* Created a department to anonymously handle whistleblower complaints, and then ignored all but about three complaints while paying the woman leading it a huge salary.
* G20 crackdown on peaceful protesters (not talking about the small group of anarchists)
* Continuous attack ads, even outside of election campaigns
* The "In-and-Out" scheme where-by they gave money to local ridings, then gave it back so they could pay for more attack ads. Then, the local ridings billed it as an expense and received taxpayer money as reimbursement.
* Scrapped the long form census then claimed the Statistics Canada recommended the decision despite the fact they advised against it.
* stiffing federal scientists and bureaucrats
* wiping out a decade of debt reduction.
* published a document for their mps and senators on how to disrupt parliamentary committees
* demonizing the opposition for considering a coalition, when they themselves proposed a coalition back in 2004.