Chris Nolan Mafia - Game Over [ARCHIVE]

[edocsil]

Always funny for playing with a new guy

Vote sheep

Didn't think I had placed one.

Unvote, Execute Sheep

[nagerous]

what?! I didn't mean "we" as in "we the mafia"! if i did, do you think I'd be stupid enough to write something like that?
it was a joke.
BTW, I was thinking about my vote
UNVOTE: VOTE: NO LYNCH
I don't know anything yet. I'll see who gets lynched tonight and make judgements based on that (not that I'll be doing the lynching, mind you)

My vote was also joking in nature with the implication you might be a multi on the Conquer Club. However, with this reaction I am going to keep my vote on you.. that no lynch and over-reaction was a major scum-tell.

Sorry to be so harsh but I think you've immediately been over-defensive and the switch to a no lynch is a classic scum beginner's mistake.

[edocsil]

what?! I didn't mean "we" as in "we the mafia"! if i did, do you think I'd be stupid enough to write something like that?
it was a joke.
BTW, I was thinking about my vote
UNVOTE: VOTE: NO LYNCH
I don't know anything yet. I'll see who gets lynched tonight and make judgements based on that (not that I'll be doing the lynching, mind you)

My vote was also joking in nature with the implication you might be a multi on the Conquer Club. However, with this reaction I am going to keep my vote on you.. that no lynch and over-reaction was a major scum-tell.

Sorry to be so harsh but I think you've immediately been over-defensive and the switch to a no lynch is a classic scum beginner's mistake.

Oh come on, he hasn't ever played before. and you jump on him for that??? Serious VOTE NAG

[nagerous]

what?! I didn't mean "we" as in "we the mafia"! if i did, do you think I'd be stupid enough to write something like that?
it was a joke.
BTW, I was thinking about my vote
UNVOTE: VOTE: NO LYNCH
I don't know anything yet. I'll see who gets lynched tonight and make judgements based on that (not that I'll be doing the lynching, mind you)

My vote was also joking in nature with the implication you might be a multi on the Conquer Club. However, with this reaction I am going to keep my vote on you.. that no lynch and over-reaction was a major scum-tell.

Sorry to be so harsh but I think you've immediately been over-defensive and the switch to a no lynch is a classic scum beginner's mistake.

Oh come on, he hasn't ever played before. and you jump on him for that??? Serious VOTE NAG

Yes, I am... you make me suspicious that you're not going ot jump on him for that. One of the most scummiest posts I've seen in a long long time.

[nagerous]

In fact why would someone not jump at that? What is wrong with you?

[Fircoal]

Unvote Vote: Nag I have to agree with Edoc. Your voting of the new guy is unwarranted. It's a noob. I know I like to be protective of noobs and there's a reason for it. First off it's his first game so he doesn't know how to play, and send off what's scummy for you or me to do is different than what's scummy for a noob. Acting over defensive and voting no lynch are common things that ALL noobs so, not just the ones that are scum. Voting for stuff like this reeks of misdirection and wanting to get an easy lynch.

[nagerous]

Unvote Vote: Nag I have to agree with Edoc. Your voting of the new guy is unwarranted. It's a noob. I know I like to be protective of noobs and there's a reason for it. First off it's his first game so he doesn't know how to play, and send off what's scummy for you or me to do is different than what's scummy for a noob. Acting over defensive and voting no lynch are common things that ALL noobs so, not just the ones that are scum. Voting for stuff like this reeks of misdirection and wanting to get an easy lynch.

No it isn't. It is much more common that those that are particularly over defensive and vote no lynch come out of scum. You should know this from gaming history. Do you not remember spiesr? Scum noobs vote no lynch because they do not quite know what they are doing and don't want one of their scum buddies to die. Town noobs don't vote no lynch because they ultimately see the logic in catching scum and lynching mafia. This is textbook stuff fircoal.

The guy was jumpy, over-defensive and threw a no lynch in there... I was never not going to vote him for that.

[edocsil]

Unvote Vote: Nag I have to agree with Edoc. Your voting of the new guy is unwarranted. It's a noob. I know I like to be protective of noobs and there's a reason for it. First off it's his first game so he doesn't know how to play, and send off what's scummy for you or me to do is different than what's scummy for a noob. Acting over defensive and voting no lynch are common things that ALL noobs do, not just the ones that are scum. Voting for stuff like this reeks of misdirection and wanting to get an easy lynch.

No need to to put it in my own words really.

[VioIet]

Confirm.

[nagerous]

Unvote Vote: Nag I have to agree with Edoc. Your voting of the new guy is unwarranted. It's a noob. I know I like to be protective of noobs and there's a reason for it. First off it's his first game so he doesn't know how to play, and send off what's scummy for you or me to do is different than what's scummy for a noob. Acting over defensive and voting no lynch are common things that ALL noobs so, not just the ones that are scum. Voting for stuff like this reeks of misdirection and wanting to get an easy lynch.

No lynch is easy fircoal. He definitely was deserving of some more pressure after that post however. Simple textbook stuff.

[shieldgenerator7]

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

[safariguy5]

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

Still, this means that you're still going with the no lynch vote. We explained why voting no lynch is inadvisable if you're town and you're already drawing heat for it. Bottom line, everyone needs to take a stand, even if nobody else seems to agree with you on it. I know you're new at this, but the whole point in mafia online is to build a case on someone. And especially day 1 where there isn't any information, people have definitely been lynched over what you've posted so far. You can't just go to night and let mafia get a free kill, especially if they hit someone like the doctor or cop. And don't expect cops to come running to post who they got as innocent right away as it sets a bullseye on their back for mafia. Rely on observation and logic to spot scum, don't just sit and passively wait for someone to accuse someone else.

[nagerous]

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

The problem with that is the advocation of a nobody move, nobody get hurt thesis, basically it doesn't wash with mafia games as illustrated by safari the mafia have the kill whilst the town during the day at least initially have only the power to vote. Later these voting records can be analysed and ties can be developed between certain people who are seen as noticeable having defended each other etc. Seeing as you have explained yourself somewhat I am going to unvote.

[safariguy5]

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

The problem with that is the advocation of a nobody move, nobody get hurt thesis, basically it doesn't wash with mafia games as illustrated by safari the mafia have the kill whilst the town during the day at least initially have only the power to vote. Later these voting records can be analysed and ties can be developed between certain people who are seen as noticeable having defended each other etc. Seeing as you have explained yourself somewhat I am going to unvote.

Not to mention the massive response generated. Edoc and fircoal jumped on you right away. Maybe it's just me, but I tend to be less forgiving than they are. OMGUSing as a noob, I'll let it slide. Voting no lynch is a big no-no for me.

[edocsil]

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

Heh, basically just committed the big 3 when i come to mafia mistakes. The only thing left is editing a post, just don't do it, we will likely try to hang you. Find something you think is scummy and vote on it, you will likely be wrong as the odds are against you, but it is how you learn to play.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I think I'm inclined to agree with nag and saf. It was more than just the no-lynch, he was overly-defensive and panicky, and didn't want to be seen as trying to be too aggressive. I don't think I'll vote for him at this point, maybe a cop can investigate, but I'm watching for further slip-ups.

vote spiesr because he'll probably be using Excel to track people's movements.

-Tails

The only reason you'd hate that if you were scum. Are you scum

Vote TG

VOTE TG, Wagon, gogogogo.

OMGUS I've found teh scummehs. unvote vote streaker

-Tails

[Commander9]

My vote was also joking in nature with the implication you might be a multi on the Conquer Club. However, with this reaction I am going to keep my vote on you.. that no lynch and over-reaction was a major scum-tell.

Sorry to be so harsh but I think you've immediately been over-defensive and the switch to a no lynch is a classic scum beginner's mistake.

Nag... that's his 1st game. I've got to agree with Edoc and Fir here - we can explain to him what wrong he has done, but while he could indeed be scum, most of the 1st timers make the same mistakes and most of them usually are town. This doesn't warrant a vote on you yet, but if nothing better than this will come up, I'll remember this.

I honestly don't understand why you would be this aggressive against him.

[spiesr]

No it isn't. It is much more common that those that are particularly over defensive and vote no lynch come out of scum. You should know this from gaming history. Do you not remember spiesr? Scum noobs vote no lynch because they do not quite know what they are doing and don't want one of their scum buddies to die. Town noobs don't vote no lynch because they ultimately see the logic in catching scum and lynching mafia. This is textbook stuff fircoal.

I stand by my defense that I voted no lynch in that game becuase in the game I had played prior the town had voted no lynch on day 1 and I assumed that it was common practice.
Anyhow, we are presented with the common dilemma when dealing with new players. How do we determine if the mistakes that they make are becuase they are new players or because they are new scum? Personally I don't have a good answer for this one. We just have to rely on our own judgment whether to ignore their scum tells or to crack down on a player who may not know any better. I will hold off casting any vote on the matter for the moment as I don't see enough to convict shieldgenerator at this point, and nagerous' actions don't seem out of character for him or anything.

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

Do you mean "tonight and tomorrow" as in real life days or in game days? As others are explaining waiting until Day 2 to start seriously looking for scum is generally frowned upon. Even if we end up lynching a townie today, that is just how the game moves forward. If we don't make real discussion today then we start tomorrow in almost the same point, just with a night of actions gone by. Unless a cop gets a guilty result and decides to reveal himself day 2 starts off with discussion relating to that of the previous day. It is true that day 1 tends to start off slowly with people just making joke votes as we have nothing to go off of. However, eventually something happens. Usually someone says something that someone else finds scummy. An argument may erupt and players pick sides. They go after the accuser for not having a good reason to accuse the other person, or they go after the accused for being scummy. Then you can discuss who supported who and why, or who is hiding and avoiding attention, or whatever. It probably isn't the ideal way of doing things, but the game has to get going someway.

I don't think I'll vote for him at this point, maybe a cop can investigate, but I'm watching for further slip-ups.

You can have an FOS from me. It seems to me that you are slyly trying to direct the cop. In my opinion doing so at this point in the game is somewhat scummy. Who benefits from directing the cop? I would say the scum. If they can convince the cop to target someone who is not one of them then that is great for them as then they won't be uncovered that night. Also, in games that contain framers, having some sort of an idea where the cop will visit makes that job a lot easier...

[nagerous]

My vote was also joking in nature with the implication you might be a multi on the Conquer Club. However, with this reaction I am going to keep my vote on you.. that no lynch and over-reaction was a major scum-tell.

Sorry to be so harsh but I think you've immediately been over-defensive and the switch to a no lynch is a classic scum beginner's mistake.

Nag... that's his 1st game. I've got to agree with Edoc and Fir here - we can explain to him what wrong he has done, but while he could indeed be scum, most of the 1st timers make the same mistakes and most of them usually are town. This doesn't warrant a vote on you yet, but if nothing better than this will come up, I'll remember this.

I honestly don't understand why you would be this aggressive against him.

I don't think my post was aggressive, he needed to know that kind of action was a major scum tell. I am not going to go easy on someone just because they are new to the game, this is an aggressive game in its nature and someone who is over-defensive on the offset and then votes a no lynch will receive my vote.

[Streaker]

Alright, good to go! Just saw 3 of Nolan's movies again this week (both Batmans and Memento, also saw Inception 2 weeks ago).

What I've seen in this game so far:

-shield comes out blasting, making a couple huge mistakes. They ARE typical noob mistakes, and i don't believe he is making them on purpose hiding behind being a noob. Because it's his first game, it won't get my vote. It DOES raise a few eyebrows on how he overreacts immediatly with a single vote on him.
It's worthy of at least a nice FoS on shield.

-nag jumps on shield for his scumtells, and for good reason. Any other player would already be hung by now. Also, i don't see anything unusual from nag. He is always this aggressive when after someone. This is usually how it goes though. Noob makes mistake, gets jumped on, he apologises, lesson learned and moving on.

-edocsil is a little more interesting I believe. He notices nag jumping on the noob, but reacts quite firmly against nag for it. Even votes because nag is following scumtells.

-Fircoal is even more interesting. Immediatly jumps on edocs wagon against nag, for voting a noob play. If shield was overreacting to a vote on him, these 2 are guilty of the same charge. It would be easy enough to tell nag he is mistaken, and that it's a common noob move. To place 2 votes on him is a little over the top, for a player who is just following scumtells...
It reeks of mafia trying to get one of the most active players out of the way early.

Conclusion: nag got the game out of joke stage, with regards to our first timer.
Edocsil and Fircoal ganging up on nag, it's the most scummy thing up until here.

Vote Fircoal, for trying to wagon without a good reason.

[sheepofdumb]

well, thanks for defending me. I just didn't know anything, and didn't want to make a decision based on a empty set knowledge base. After night, into tomorrow, I'll know a little more than today, so then I'll be ready with voting power. Thanks for teaching me basic strategy anyway.

One of the biggest problems with internet mafia is the lack of body language. You will most likely be in the dark for most of the game. Unless you are in some group or a cop you will have no idea who anyone else is until they are dead. Trying to guess roles is like playing minesweeper with no big open patches and unreliable numbers. Lynching is a risky but necessary business for the town. Most of these guys have been playing for years and are rather adept at picking out scum tells. There should be a few resources outlining the do's and don't for newbies. It's been a few years so I don't know any off the top of my head and I don't have time right now to hunt any down. I know there's a website that explains the most common roles.

@Streaker: The way I see it we have three good leads. Nag for going after an easy noob lynch and Fircoal going after nag for the aggressiveness as a scum tell. Finally we have shield giving off noob scum tells. I want to see a little bit more but if you ask me there are three days worth of lynches the town has lined up. Fircoal doesn't need to inform Nag of noob/bad scum tactics. Nag knows the textbook noob mistakes and shield followed them to the letter. Then there's edocsil but I'm late for class as it is.

Safariguy5 has not shown me that he is a proponent of love and peace. My vote on him stands.

[safariguy5]

Lol, that website would be [url]mafiascum.net[/url]. The way I see it, nag jumping on shield is expected and chu defending the noob is also expected. I didn't expect edoc to be the first to rush to defend the noob, that seemed like an overreaction. And really, we've lynched people like shield for less on day 1.

unvote vote edocsil

[edocsil]

Lol, that website would be [url]mafiascum.net[/url]. The way I see it, nag jumping on shield is expected and chu defending the noob is also expected. I didn't expect edoc to be the first to rush to defend the noob, that seemed like an overreaction. And really, we've lynched people like shield for less on day 1.

unvote vote edocsil

What info would lynching the rookie get us? Shit, maybe we would get lucky and he is scum, but you all know the odds of him being scum are no more likely then any other person picked at random. I dislike how Nag looks to waste the entire day chasing down a rookie who simply didn't know better, rather then spend the valuable time hunting. IMO anyone who wants to waste a day should be hung from the closest tree.

[spiesr]

What info would lynching the rookie get us? Shit, maybe we would get lucky and he is scum, but you all know the odds of him being scum are no more likely then any other person picked at random. I dislike how Nag looks to waste the entire day chasing down a rookie who simply didn't know better, rather then spend the valuable time hunting. IMO anyone who wants to waste a day should be hung from the closest tree.

Here is a question for you. Where do you draw the line between brushing off the scummy things a new player is doing as simply him being new and the point where he should be lynched for being scummy? What I mean is that just becuase someone is knew we can't excuse everything he does. He could just as well be scum as anyone else. The newbie immunity can't last all game as then he would never be lynched. While I agree that we don't really have enough against him to lynch shieldgenerator right now, I want to know under what circumstances you think lynching a newbish player would be acceptable...

[safariguy5]

Lol, that website would be [url]mafiascum.net[/url]. The way I see it, nag jumping on shield is expected and chu defending the noob is also expected. I didn't expect edoc to be the first to rush to defend the noob, that seemed like an overreaction. And really, we've lynched people like shield for less on day 1.

unvote vote edocsil

What info would lynching the rookie get us? Shit, maybe we would get lucky and he is scum, but you all know the odds of him being scum are no more likely then any other person picked at random. I dislike how Nag looks to waste the entire day chasing down a rookie who simply didn't know better, rather then spend the valuable time hunting. IMO anyone who wants to waste a day should be hung from the closest tree.

But it's not a wasted day. A wasted day is a day with a no lynch. Even pressuring and forcing a claim is better than just letting the guy off the hook.