Important Poll for All Mapmakers

[natty dread]

Please vote, everyone - especially new mapmakers!

[Riskismy]

sigh. We've been over this. I agree that 90% will fall in the top 2 categories, but there's no point in having those last 10% fall in the remainder. It's an easy fix where everyone benefits. There are no losers here.

[natty dread]

Let's keep this thread on topic. This is about polling the mapmakers to see if there's a problem that needs to be fixed or not. It's a very straight-forward and balanced poll that should offer us an accurate representation of the situation.

[grifftron]

No. Easy.

[Riskismy]

Let's keep this thread on topic. This is about polling the mapmakers to see if there's a problem that needs to be fixed or not. It's a very straight-forward and balanced poll that should offer us an accurate representation of the situation.

It's irrelevant to the changes I proposed, and it's not balanced nor straight-forward.

An unbiased poll would something like:

On a scale of 1-5, how easy did you find entering the Foundry for the first time was?
1 = Easy
3 = As expected
5 = Hard

No matter, have your fun.

[MrBenn]

Almost every poll in the foundry displays some sort of bias. "Entering the foundry" is a very vague concept, and I would argue that coming to the foundry to mention an idea for a map is vastly different to coming to the foundry with the intention of making a map - with or without a draft image.

Anyway, on pain of being off-topic, on a scale of 1-5, how easy did you find Enter the Dragon for the first time?

[Riskismy]

Almost every poll in the foundry displays some sort of bias. "Entering the foundry" is a very vague concept, and I would argue that coming to the foundry to mention an idea for a map is vastly different to coming to the foundry with the intention of making a map - with or without a draft image.

True, thanks for proving my point. I hope you do agree that the numbers are at least less biased than the text.

Anyway, on pain of being off-topic, on a scale of 1-5, how easy did you find Enter the Dragon for the first time?

I suppose there's a point here, or are you just taking another stab at me?

[MrBenn]

Anyway, on pain of being off-topic, on a scale of 1-5, how easy did you find Enter the Dragon for the first time?

I suppose there's a point here, or are you just taking another stab at me?

No point. No knives. Just some Kung-fu...

[natty dread]

It's irrelevant to the changes I proposed,

Riskismy, not everything is about you or your suggestions. This poll's purpose is, again, to determine whether there is a problem within the foundry that needs to be fixed. If you don't have something relevant to add to the topic at hand, please refrain from posting here.

Anyway, on pain of being off-topic, on a scale of 1-5, how easy did you find Enter the Dragon for the first time?
Image

On pain of looking like a total loser, I have to confess I have never seen Enter the Dragon.

[Riskismy]

In my last 2 posts I've been addressing the bias of the poll (and MrBenn's off-topic comment, which I was unsure of), which I for one consider on topic.

[kengyin]

i didnt have trouble since there was only melting pot when i first came here, though it did annoy me how it took so long for it to get moved to the drafting room when it was created since i already had a draft for a long time then

[WILLIAMS5232]

if my opinion matters, i've been following this debate for some time. so here are my two cents. i consider it fair and unbiased.

1. i did not find the forum too confusing, but i do consider myself to have above average problem solving skills
2. i do agree that it would be possible to get lost or discouraged in this forum.
3. i believe the poll is unfairly biased. (specifically, only one option is available that would warrant change)
4. i agree that it is a good way to weed out potential mapmakers that may not be fully dedicated to put in the work.
5. i believe that there could be a clearer forum that would create a better understanding of the process.
6. i think that in order to make this forum clearer it would take more work than anyone is really interested in putting in.
7. i think riskismy's idea is a good one, with positive intentions
8. i think this quarrel of natty's and riskismy is getting plain silly

overall, i'm happy with my current experience with the map foundry, mainly because i'm pretty anxious to make a map.
i also am impressed with the feedback from natty, and riskismy. they both seem to at least take time to respond to everything in the melting pot, which is the only area i am really involved in right now. i know it all takes time and i think that putting a better effort into resolving something instead of trying to "out argue" each other may lead to a more productive conclusion to whatever may come of this. i hope your poll thingy goes well.

none the less thanks guys, i would have been gone along time ago with out both of your opinions.

[natty dread]

3. i believe the poll is unfairly biased. (specifically, only one option is available that would warrant change)

That's a fallacious idea. The poll covers accurately most of the possible answers to the question. Do you suppose that we should create extraneous answers just to have an equal number of voting options? That's just silly.

Furthermore, the poll does not care what the conclusions drawn from it are. It measures the opinions of the populace as accurately as possible. The conclusions that can be drawn from the poll have nothing to do with the fairness of the poll itself.

An example of a biased poll would be this:

"Do you get confused about the foundry forums?
1. No
2. Yes, I'm an idiot"

Notice how this poll is not doing what that poll is.

[MrBenn]

Regardless of the squabbling between natty and riskismy, (for which I would like to prescribe some chill pills), I'd like people to know that I am taking feedback on board and that we're discussing things behind the scenes.

[natty dread]

(for which I would like to prescribe some chill pills)

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally am taking things very chill.

I don't have a problem with anyone, even if I disagree with their opinions or suggestions. I offer my input in debates as long as they remain constructive, and step away when they degenerate to arguing just for arguing's sake.

[WILLIAMS5232]

It measures the opinions of the populace as accurately as possible.

and conveniently the sample "populace" itself is biased. and i'm sure you are aware of this. we can only assume that the only people who will take this poll are people who can only honestly answer with the first 3 choices. the people who would vote for the single option you have chosen to reflect a negative impact on your agenda, surprisingly will be absent for this poll. a poll itself is only as good as the sample. i don't even know why i have to explain this to you. in reality i guess I'm not. because me and you are both aware that you understand this.

if you were concerned with the actual feed back of the "populace" i'm sure your poll would be different.

but if you're trying to prove a point, then it's fine "as is"

i'm fine with the forum right now, but i'm more patient than most people, when i first came here, i was unsure of where to start, but after poking around a bit, it did prove easy enough. and after getting involved in some of the discussions, i kind of see how things flow and what to expect. so i kind of agree with you natty, but i just don't see how entertaining ideas of improvement will hurt anything.

thanks.

[natty dread]

and conveniently the sample "populace" itself is biased.

Look... you see "bias" because you are biased about the issue. Stop being so anal about it.

we can only assume that the only people who will take this poll are people who can only honestly answer with the first 3 choices.

Sigh... look, if you are complaining that "people who are really dissatisfied won't vote because they have left the foundry", what exactly would you have me do? Re-wording the poll options any way you would choose would not bring those people here to vote. We're working within the limitations of what we are confined to here.

Sure, the results may not be 100% accurately representant of the whole populace. But there's no way to get such results without somehow polling everyone who ever visited the Foundry. But if we interpret the results they will give us some inkling on the general view of the issue. Ie. whether there is a problem that needs to be fixed or not, which is what this poll sets out to do.

[TaCktiX]

Can I step in to say that arguing over this is at the point of frivolity and is accomplishing nothing. Could we please drop the ire and move about getting some maps improved or something worth doing?

[WILLIAMS5232]

Could we please drop the ire and move about getting some maps improved or something worth doing?

this is good advice that i will take. thanks.

Stop being so anal

i will also take this piece of advice as well.