San Francisco [Quenched]

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:22 pm

well, I tried to keep up with this topic, but I still am not sure what you want to do. Nonetheless, I'll try my best.

If it means that if you get alcatraz you get +1 then an extra +1 for every continent held: (extra+1 for every continent held)

If it means that the continent bonus gets +1 when you hold alcatraz; I would put it as a footnote.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:36 pm

you get a +1 for each continent you hold...

alcatraz + marin = 1 + 3 = 4
alcatraz + marin + contra costa = 1 + 1 + 3 + 2 = 7

so you get 1 alcatraz bonus for each other continent you hold...its 0 if you have 0 continents.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:15 pm

Perhaps:

"+1 when held with every additional continent"

or

"+1 for each continent held in addition to Alcatraz"

or

"+1 Multiplied by # of continents owned/held"

None of those may be very good either though.

--Andy

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:45 pm

Use "bonus region," not "continent."

Aside from that, I think the current wording is actually the most clear out of everything suggested so far.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:07 pm

Use "bonus region," not "continent."

yeah, good point. marin is definetly not a continent.

"+1 for each additional bonus region held"
is that better? (its wordier than i wanted, but i can live with it)

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:20 pm

How about "+1 added to each bonus region held."

Or perhaps "+1 added to each region bonus held."

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:31 am

Samus wrote:Use "bonus region," not "continent."

Aside from that, I think the current wording is actually the most clear out of everything suggested so far.

I agree Samus. Seems just fine if you change it to bonus region.

Johloh, I have to ask...maybe i missed something wayback, but why is SOMA in caps and everything else in sentence case?

Excellent work....setting new standards!!! Go Johloh!

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:30 am

SOMA is an acronym people use for SOuth of MArket. Market is the big diagonal street that cuts through the center of downtown (the white line heading through the red region that points at treasure island).

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:24 am

Samus wrote:How about "+1 added to each bonus region held."

Or perhaps "+1 added to each region bonus held."

This kind of makes it seem like the +1 will be added to the region held, like if you had marin that the plus 1 would just be put there.

What if it was "+1 added FOR each region held." ?

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:47 pm

johloh wrote:SOMA is an acronym people use for SOuth of MArket. Market is the big diagonal street that cuts through the center of downtown (the white line heading through the red region that points at treasure island).

Thanks for that JohLoh...amazing, but I'ver actually walked Market down from Haight back in '96, don't remember a lot of details but we were doing the usual Hiaght Ashbury tour...we stayed at some Hotel in the Civic Centre. Sorry for not being native, but SOMA just stood out so...

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:17 pm

luckiekevin wrote:
Samus wrote:How about "+1 added to each bonus region held."

Or perhaps "+1 added to each region bonus held."

This kind of makes it seem like the +1 will be added to the region held, like if you had marin that the plus 1 would just be put there.

What if it was "+1 added FOR each region held." ?

I think we have a winner, "+1 added for each bonus region held."

What do you guys think?

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:55 pm

Sounds like the best succinct description we can have.

--Andy

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:59 pm

I think we have a winner, "+1 added for each bonus region held."

sounds good to me...update soon...

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:25 pm

-updated alcatraz bonus text...(i underlined each to help people realize that its 1 for each, seems pretty clear to me).
-cleared upper left corner of blurry land that looked bad...
-centered the title better with the old land now gone

questions...
-how do the armies look? are they all centered? (top pg19)
-how do the army circles look with armies in them? (top pg19) I considered making them a little less transparent, because they can look odd in some places where the city shows through...any interest?
-should we try to add another ferry route? maybe tiburon to berkeley? make marin have three borders, so its not quite so powerful...(3 bonus with 2 borders)

other suggestions...?

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:32 pm

Looks perfect to me. I don't think another ferry route is needed, and the circles and army numbers look fine to me

cheguevarra · Post by **cheguevarra** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:07 pm

Agreed.. I can't think of anything else. This is already better than any other map on here if you ask me.

EvilOtto · Post by **EvilOtto** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:53 pm

johloh wrote:-should we try to add another ferry route? maybe tiburon to berkeley? make marin have three borders, so its not quite so powerful...(3 bonus with 2 borders)

If you were adding ferry routes I'd say have multiple routes starting at fisherman's wharf. It would match reality better, AND it would help the "circle problem" by letting several territories attack the center of the board. Maybe Wharf to Angel Island if you want another Marin border?

Seems like we are getting ready to get picky? I can see why you put the bonus menu in that order (to match the coast line), but I think it is confusing how it jumps around the board. Should be: Marin, Contra Costa, Oakland, Avenues, Downtown, South SF. Easier to find continents without relying entirely on the colors.

The text for "Financial" and "McLaren Park" overlap their borders badly... could be hard to read.

Why is the army shadow for the Richmond district so far to the right? Would look better more centered. Similarily: Corte Madera could have the shadow under the name; Glen Park name and shadow could be higher; Ingleside is pushed too far left, either move the name to the other side or push both name and shadow over; SOMA shadow seems a little too in the corner, same with Financial but there obviously isn't a lot of room to work with...

What if most of the names were under the shadows instead of above the shadows? Corte Madera is this way now, but everything else has the name above or to the side.

casper · Post by **casper** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:38 am

EvilOtto wrote: Seems like we are getting ready to get picky? I can see why you put the bonus menu in that order (to match the coast line), but I think it is confusing how it jumps around the board. Should be: Marin, Contra Costa, Oakland, Avenues, Downtown, South SF. Easier to find continents without relying entirely on the colors.

How is it confusing? Match up the colors and learn the bonuses. After a few games you shouldn't have to refer to the bonuses more than a couple times a game. Do you look at the legend on Classic to check Oceania's bonus and go oh yeah it's a +2!

EvilOtto wrote:The text for "Financial" and "McLaren Park" overlap their borders badly... could be hard to read.

It's fine as is. Where else can he put "Financial"? If you put in lines pointing from text to circles it will only clutter the map.

Johloh: How come Richmond District is so big and why does it wrap all the way up north to the marina area in between Presidio and Pacific Heights? I found this map of where residents say they live in SF. http://hood.theory.org/zoom_map.html There are notable Inner Richmond and Marina neighborhoods that aren't on this map but are gobbled up by Richmond District.

(You can zoom in on the site.)

Downtown is gonna be tough to hold.

I hope Final Forge gets started soon.

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:42 am

casper wrote:
EvilOtto wrote:The text for "Financial" and "McLaren Park" overlap their borders badly... could be hard to read.
It's fine as is. Where else can he put "Financial"? If you put in lines pointing from text to circles it will only clutter the map.

I can sort of see the point for Financial, but only because the border lines line up directly with the "i"s. Perhaps move it over just a tad so they don't anymore.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:27 am

evil- great points! that was exactly what I was looking for! pick away! Ill look into all your points...Ill play around with the placement and see if I can appease most of these.

I can see why you put the bonus menu in that order (to match the coast line)

one thing I really dont want to change is this...I think it looks way better in sequential length order...and i dont think its toooo terribly confusing.

casper-

How come Richmond District is so big and why does it wrap all the way up north to the marina area in between Presidio and Pacific Heights?

good point. the richmond district looks bad. it wasnt like that in older versions. we did it to decrease the numbers of borders between 'downtown' and 'the avenues'

that is a good map you posted, and i have seen it before. I see nothing wrong with combining 'richmond seacliff' and 'inner richmond' on that map into one big richmond dist. as I have. Marina was left off and combined into one big pac. heights. we could split it, but we'd have to delete another region somewhere else, and we'd be adding another region and border to 'the red monster'. as you said...

Downtown is gonna be tough to hold

so changing it around would only make it harder...if you can think of a better way to redraw the lines without making it harder to hold downtown go for it...im not totally happy with that area...

EvilOtto · Post by **EvilOtto** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:33 pm

casper wrote:
EvilOtto wrote: Seems like we are getting ready to get picky? I can see why you put the bonus menu in that order (to match the coast line), but I think it is confusing how it jumps around the board. Should be: Marin, Contra Costa, Oakland, Avenues, Downtown, South SF. Easier to find continents without relying entirely on the colors.
How is it confusing? Match up the colors and learn the bonuses. After a few games you shouldn't have to refer to the bonuses more than a couple times a game. Do you look at the legend on Classic to check Oceania's bonus and go oh yeah it's a +2!

Most people playing CC live on Earth and are at least a little familiar with the continents on the planet, so it isn't an issue with the Classic map. On the other hand, plenty of CC players do not live in the SF Bay Area and will not have a clue what a "Marin" is. Imagine a player on this map for the first time who is color blind and doesn't know the area... it could easily be confusing.

If you came up with a shorter name for "Contra Costa" it would largely still be ordered by name length but also by location... something like "North Bay"? Or instead of listing names you could have a tiny overview map (like in the bottom corner of World 2.1)? Or place the bonuses next to the actual continents instead of in a legend? Seems like there are a few possibilities to consider.

But it isn't a deal breaker for me. I won't bring it up again.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:15 pm

ill play around with a mini map...lemme see how that looks...

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:53 pm

well im not a big fan of how it looks, but ive been suprised by peoples opinions before...(i know alcatraz isnt on there, im just seeing if i should continue with this style)

which is better? this or the old one...

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:50 pm

I prefer the other legend, except for where it spills onto the actual map. I wonder if you could put a * at the end of the Alcatraz bonus and have the little description underneath the rest of the legend.

Also, while it's probably pointless to mention it at this point, I think you could come up with a better solution for your signature. It looks like it is part of the map at the moment.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:01 pm

What about the arrows? Does that mean that Alcatraz can attack nothing?