Game Throwing?

[lord voldemort]

pretty poor decision here...
Quite obvious that he was playing every game with intention of winning. Point dumping is intentionally throwing games by not playing or playing to lose.
I would really like to hear k.a's thoughts on this...This is twice now mods have made stupid decisions on people I know on these boards.
Perhaps they should spend more time on fixing this obvious broken system

[jefjef]

So recently I got a warning for "point dumping" because

These recent public post that I have read in the forums has shown that you intentionally lowered your rank to achieve a certain score so that you can be a "normal player" again coming from being a Conqueror.

Now I will admit that I have done this but i have also played to win every game and have not been provided any evidence by the part of the mods to show me otherwise. Furthermore later in the pm KA says

game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game.

I see CC failed to contact me for my opinion on this matter.

I had considered filing a C&A complaint against you ljex in re of Point dumping back when your rank 1st plummeted. But it would have been to get under your skin, raise your blood pressure and watch ya squirm.

Yes you stated you intended on playing 1v1 sequential knowing full well that you would drop rank like a rock but honestly I do not feel this intentional point dumping. You are not at an advantage playing sequential and we all know playing 1v1against competent opponents is not going to points profitable but you are playing to win.

You also pay to play games you enjoy and want and CC really has no right to say you can't play what you lose at as long as you try to win.

[iamkoolerthanu]

jef, I love how you threw that insult in the middle of that post... But really, the main point of your post is true. He plays to win, therefore isn't point dumping...

[jefjef]

jef, I love how you threw that insult in the middle of that post... But really, the main point of your post is true. He plays to win, therefore isn't point dumping...

What insult kooler? There are no insults. He is not at an advantage playing sequential just like I am not at an advantage playing free style. (If thats what your mumbling about)

[iamkoolerthanu]

"1v1against competent opponents"

If you had just said playing seq games then it really wouldn't be an insult... but you didn't, you also said my quoted txt above lol

[SirSebstar]

"1v1against competent opponents"

If you had just said playing seq games then it really wouldn't be an insult... but you didn't, you also said my quoted txt above lol

I have to admit, i dont see the insult either. Facing a competent player in 1vs1 sequential means there is little to no edge. Both players should have a familiarity of the concept of the map they are playing on, so nothing tricky is expected.. All the edge is luck then.
For a conqueror or general to take on captains and lt's and anything higher means they will loose points. This is inevitable. Nobody is good enough to make conqueror playing everybody on (e.g. random maps) 1vs1 sequential nowadays. it cannot be done without making a ranksegregation in your opponants.

[jefjef]

"1v1against competent opponents"

If you had just said playing seq games then it really wouldn't be an insult... but you didn't, you also said my quoted txt above lol

Sir Seb is spot on.

I avoid 1v1 due to even if I win 65-70% of the games it would still be a points deficit (unless I play equal or higher rank and that just don't randomly happen in public games.)

But thanks for trying to spin and twist meanings and stir something.

But anyway CC really needs to reconsider the warning issued for this. If ljex had managed to win all of his 1v1 games would CC have warned win for intentional points gaining? As long as he tried to win, which I am sure he did, he broke no rules.

[SirSebstar]

Just to make a clarification. If you play games to win, you win games and you are not setting yourself up in any way shape or form( e.g. 50 speed doodle ass, or 50 freestyle public games if you never played with them nor do freestyle at all, or things to that nature...) then there can never be any case of pointdumping.

actually, if you play to win, you cannot be pointdumping... is shorter.

thats how i feel. I am curious now, so maybe i am going to ask ljex whats what, but as a general discussion, i can see more then one way of cheating the system. Packing a bunch of games and takeing a dive in a few of them might be enough to bust balls on though. Rulelawyering is not the way forward, accepting that some things should not be done, is much the wiser course. Ofcourse doing them shows you have balls. I just wish it would not hurt so much

[Dako]

Where did those 50 simultaneous speed games have occurred from? Stop dragging irrelevant examples to this case.

[SirSebstar]

Where did those 50 simultaneous speed games have occurred from? Stop dragging irrelevant examples to this case.

1. huh? Whats your beef?
2. its an example
3. Happened in the past, so its a cc relevant example
4. This is a GD discussion, it is NOT a review of the Ljex case
5. Calm down and try reading it again. maybe only the short piece. I am no admin, so I can only offer opinion, and i just did.
thats all, have a nice day

[greenoaks]

my rank has dropped quite a bit of late.

i specialise at Age of Realms 2 which until recently was a quarter of all my games. lately i have been playing a fair bit of 1v1 tournaments, assassin games & random map games.

it would seem that my attempt to branch out is now considered point dumping. very disappointing.

[rabbiton]

So recently I got a warning for "point dumping" because

These recent public post that I have read in the forums has shown that you intentionally lowered your rank to achieve a certain score so that you can be a "normal player" again coming from being a Conqueror.

Now I will admit that I have done this but i have also played to win every game and have not been provided any evidence by the part of the mods to show me otherwise. Furthermore later in the pm KA says

game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game.

To me this means they should provide me with at least 4-5 instances of me "throwing" games in order to have a case against me...which has not been done. All they have stated in the pm is that I am intentionally lowering my score...but how is this illegal if i am playing to win every game?

I would like a serious discussion on the matter

i see an asterisk in your future.

i also see a day when all players can have an asterisk. when the son of a speed addict and the son of a venereal patient can come together on a mountain of asterisks and embrace each other and pronounce us all to be free.

free to play what we want to play, free to be what we want to be in the shadow of the mountain of asterisks.

ljex, i announce you free, the authorities have announced you free... because you have joined brother blitz on the mountain.

may we all soon come in your trail.

[Dako]

Where did those 50 simultaneous speed games have occurred from? Stop dragging irrelevant examples to this case.

1. huh? Whats your beef?
2. its an example
3. Happened in the past, so its a cc relevant example
4. This is a GD discussion, it is NOT a review of the Ljex case
5. Calm down and try reading it again. maybe only the short piece. I am no admin, so I can only offer opinion, and i just did.
thats all, have a nice day

2. I know, I even said that in my post.
3. I know that as well, but doesn't make it relevant because previous player didn't finish all of his games in a proper form.
4. It does seem like a ljex review to be honest. And yes, it is a GD topic, you are observant.
5. I am quite calm to be honest. I do not know why you jumped on me and decided to write a lot of pints (I assume to cover every moment and to shut me down). I have a pretty nice day to b honest, it is sunny and I am off the work already so I enjoy my free time.

[mc05025]

So recently I got a warning for "point dumping" because

These recent public post that I have read in the forums has shown that you intentionally lowered your rank to achieve a certain score so that you can be a "normal player" again coming from being a Conqueror.

Now I will admit that I have done this but i have also played to win every game and have not been provided any evidence by the part of the mods to show me otherwise. Furthermore later in the pm KA says

game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game.

To me this means they should provide me with at least 4-5 instances of me "throwing" games in order to have a case against me...which has not been done. All they have stated in the pm is that I am intentionally lowering my score...but how is this illegal if i am playing to win every game?

I would like a serious discussion on the matter

If you really didn't through games (I am not going to watch all your games) then I think the accuses are unacceptable.

Didn't he quote the game numbers in which you threw games?

If not, then that was very unprofessional and in the future he should be more careful if he truly work for the best of the site.

You can not play like other guys because you have the ability to play better and select the games with which you can have 5000 points? this is ridiculous.
On the other hand if you did through some games then he is right but he should have quote the game numbers and I would be interested in having a look at them

[ljex]

Just to be clear, you got an unofficial warning and THEN a full official warning?? I do not know anything regarding the specifics of your case, but in general I am quite willing to discus it.

As to the state of previous Conquerors, some have been busted/ warned or ignored and now those practices are now mostly outlawed..

...
Yes I made my intentions very clear, to play lots of 1 vs 1 games and see where that got me...i played every single game with the intentions of winning, i just dont see how that can be illegal.

Lolz at the anybody abusing the integrity of the site will get a ban because last I checked every single conqueror ever has done that to get there.

I'm not trying to see how close I can get to not breaking the rules, where have I ever said that and this was an official warning, I received the unofficial one about a week ago when KA sent me a pm asking to make sure I was playing to win. As i told him now and as I said then I am playing every game to win. If playing games that you know in the long run will result in points lost was against the rules maybe he should have told me then so I could not have continued onto my official warning...

my official warning was for a different reason than my unofficial warning was for something different than my unofficial warning which you would see if you bothered to read my messages...i actually complain about that

does this stance mean i am not allowed to play maps i like because i will, in the long run, lose points on them.

no, but it might mean you cannot go from conqueror to cook in a short time without eyebrows raising. if you announce an intention to break the system, what do YOU think the C&A is supposed to do?

dont think i ever made it too cook or that other conquerors have not done this in the past...they have just not been as public about their intentions

[ljex]

Fritz, I..concur.
Playing to win cannot be pointdumping.

But as an example, say i would have 4 k points, started 50 speedgames doodle assassin and then would "incidently" attack the wrong target or neutrals in at least a couple of games? How would you qualify this?

show me where i ever did that...oh thats right i didnt i played a bunch of casual turns and i took most turns, maybe missed a few when I couldn't get them and gave sitters short notice during the middle of the night when I went out and then went back to my friends instead of my house.

my team should have won WWII Europe...even you admitted that in the chat and i do suck a lot at Napolean which is 2 of those games i lost i believe anyway jefjef im not really trying to have an e-penis fight but if thats what it takes for you to believe i would be higher than major with only sequential games then im willing to do that.

So...the chap destroyed his rank to prove something to jef jef. I consider this to be absolutely idiotic and also quite liked the rather subtle, 'rank idiocy' to boot.

Not really...more so bored of playing only oasis quads

So recently I got a warning for "point dumping" because

These recent public post that I have read in the forums has shown that you intentionally lowered your rank to achieve a certain score so that you can be a "normal player" again coming from being a Conqueror.

Now I will admit that I have done this but i have also played to win every game and have not been provided any evidence by the part of the mods to show me otherwise. Furthermore later in the pm KA says

game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game.

To me this means they should provide me with at least 4-5 instances of me "throwing" games in order to have a case against me...which has not been done. All they have stated in the pm is that I am intentionally lowering my score...but how is this illegal if i am playing to win every game?

I would like a serious discussion on the matter

If you really didn't through games (I am not going to watch all your games) then I think the accuses are unacceptable.

Didn't he quote the game numbers in which you threw games?

If not, then that was very unprofessional and in the future he should be more careful if he truly work for the best of the site.

You can not play like other guys because you have the ability to play better and select the games with which you can have 5000 points? this is ridiculous.
On the other hand if you did through some games then he is right but he should have quote the game numbers and I would be interested in having a look at them

No game numbers were given as evidence...just posts or game chats of me saying i was intentionally point dumping through the legal means of game selection. This is what bothers me most, KA says you cant intentionally lose games numerous times but gives me no evidence of games being thrown.

[SirSebstar]

Fritz, I..concur.
Playing to win cannot be pointdumping.

But as an example, say i would have 4 k points, started 50 speedgames doodle assassin and then would "incidently" attack the wrong target or neutrals in at least a couple of games? How would you qualify this?

show me where i ever did that...oh thats right i didnt ......

ARG!!
I am asking what you guys would draw the line at. I really dont want to connect this to you ljex because i just dont know your case, and i cant review it anyway....

[iamkoolerthanu]

But sir sibastar, I understand that you are just asking where would you draw the line.. But I can tell you the line would be farther then a conquer playing normal games and dropping rank because of it. He asked about HIS case and you randomlly started asking about 50 speed games and such.. kinda confusing, as you can tell by the reactions of posters

[Denise]

Wow, this one has me worked up. I barely had enough patience to read through the thread before responding. It's really ridiculous that you got a warning, ljex! The way I understood it, you were sick of playing oasis and wanted to play games for fun. You even told me several months ago that you would continue to try for conqueror until you got sick of it, then you would just quit and go back to playing games for fun. How is this even a case for point dumping? C&A is way off base on this one!

You also said something about going after the random medal. If what you have done is considered point dumping, then every medal chaser would fall in that category! When you decided to quit being conqueror (yes all it takes is playing 1 vs 1's and has nothing to do with point dumping), you and I played 4 games. You won 2 and I won 2, but that ended in you losing 30 points to me. Of course you are going to drop points at that rate! And players that are a lower rank than I am are going to get even more points than I did.

Players that play 1 vs 1's exclusively are never going to raise in rank. But I imagine that is the type of game that they enjoy. Does this mean that they are point dumping? Come on, C&A! This is a no brainer.

[AAFitz]

HOWEVER, there are many who are point dumping right now. They are purposefully not winning, and they enjoy going to the bottom of the scoreboard...presumably since its the only way they know how to move on the scoreboard at all. They then typically join games with other players and essentially bomb them for their points. This could be solved easily by either enforcement, or just capping the low end of points at 500. Below 500 is such a useless number, there is no reason for those scores.

I'm not sure I agree. The mechanics would obviously be a bit more complex, but isn't wouldn't that just aid with the whole 'screwing more with the point system' that makes point dumping as bad as it is? If the opponent can't lose anymore points from 500, then where would the points for the victor come from? It doesn't really seem like it'd offer much of an advantage

You simply havent seen enough examples of the point terrorists. Also, who cares where the points come from. There have probably been 40000 multi points into the system. locking out the few that decide to lose everything, wont change anything.

[AAFitz]

Although I did not know of this warning Ljex, I was not all that surprised. You did make your intention pretty clear.
I am still a bit unclear as to the nature of the warning. Is it an official 1st step on the escalating ladder or just a nudge that they keep an close eye on you?

Anyways, the rankingsystem has flaws. Hell the site has flaws. Anybody abusing those flaws is likely to get a warning or worse. You announced your intention to legally pointdump knowing well that it was a blow against the integrity of the ranking system, and that is just that, you cannot be legally annoying.

Don't get me wrong, i know nothing about your case from the mods point of view, but this is what i was wondering/muzing..
Still, I am unsure if the C&A wll discus this with you, considering they never do. I don't think they should. Seeing how close you can get to not breaking a rule is just plain... annoying..

Yes I made my intentions very clear, to play lots of 1 vs 1 games and see where that got me...i played every single game with the intentions of winning, i just dont see how that can be illegal.



Lolz at the anybody abusing the integrity of the site will get a ban because last I checked every single conqueror ever has done that to get there.

I'm not trying to see how close I can get to not breaking the rules, where have I ever said that and this was an official warning, I received the unofficial one about a week ago when KA sent me a pm asking to make sure I was playing to win. As i told him now and as I said then I am playing every game to win. If playing games that you know in the long run will result in points lost was against the rules maybe he should have told me then so I could not have continued onto my official warning...

I actually fully agree. Unless it can be proven you werent playing well, you can no more be punished or warned for choosing a certain type of game, that you might lose, than everyone who has not made conqueror has chosen, and not achieved conqueror.

It was a mistake, and honestly, against the true spirit of Conquer Club, which has always, and hopefully always will be about freedom of choice of game type.

People have played this game for years, played thousands of games, and play games they cant possibly expect to gain points at. The fact that you did choose point gaining games for a while, should not at all limit you to what you choose next.

It really is like accusing a stockbroker of quitting his job and going to work for mcdonalds. Its kind of insane, but is his full right to pursue happiness. The fact that he knows he will lose millions, really should be irrelevant.

[King_Herpes]

Oh don't fret over 1 little ole warning there bubbles, I got me a whole messa them tings'

[AAFitz]

Oh don't fret over 1 little ole warning there bubbles, I got me a whole messa them tings'

Ya, but you deserved many of them.

[King_Herpes]

Name them or it didn't happen

[AAFitz]

Name them or it didn't happen

Jane, Francine, Betty....and Helga.

The point is, he is simply defending his right to choose his games regardless of his score.

Id much rather see the 30 people point dumping every day, and obviously so be warned, than someone who just wants to play some games that might result in a lower score, coincidentally, and incidentally.

He is no more deserving of a warning than myself, or anyone, who joins a game they know they have little chance of winning.

Hell, I joined mogul games against you all the time, just for fun, knowing I had little chance.