Outlaw Password Sharing and Account Sitting

[Uncle Death]

Outlaw Password Sharing and Account Sitting

This is long overdue. I don't need to outline the abuses this has caused to the community. The evidence is all over the forums and the C&A in particular. I realize many players hate missing turns in important games and will dismiss this suggestion outright, however, CC needs to regain it's integrity by playing by the rules and no longer allowing players to circumvent them by popular consensus. Most of us have shared our passwords, account sat, and had others account sit for us. It's time to say no more. What is the point of keeping a stat for turns taken if players have others take their turns for them? Are not losing games and points more important than playing fairly and honestly? If we join a game do we not all expect the players listed to be the ones playing? Life happens and we miss turns, so be it. We are all equally affected. Account sitting however is not an equal proposition. More experienced players and clan members in particular have a greater resource to have players covering for them. If a player can't play their turns they should not commit to playing the game. If something unforeseen happens and a player can't take his turns, so be it. It is a game based on dice after all. We all take the same risk in joining a game.

I urge everyone that reads this to take a moment and put away your preexisting notions and habits. I'm not criticizing anyone. We all have been doing it. I suggest we push ourselves away from the table and think about what is honest and pure about our gaming experience. It's not about winning and dominating although that is certainly our intent, it's about competing. Competition is only competition if the players are all on equal footing.

I can go on and on and site examples, a tennis player goes lame in a match and he loses, no one takes his place. A more experienced and better player certainly doesn't replace him. This happens all too much in CC.

Conquer Club and the game has been corrupted by password sharing and account sitting. This can be fixed. I realize it won't be completely enforceable but nothing is. However most people really are honest and play fair. If you tell them they shouldn't share their password anymore the vast majority will abide by that. Those that choose to cheat and do so will eventually be caught or minimized because players will foe them.

The big clans who may oppose this because of their competitive nature really shouldn't. What clan doesn't look at the turns taken stat when deciding on a new member. It will only make you stronger.

I humbly submit this suggestion and encourage the debate that I hope will follow.

[Metsfanmax]

This is going to be rejected simply on the basis of popular demand. For whatever reason, people have decided that having their turns covered for them is more important than a system where missing turns is inevitable if you're away from a computer. Like it or not, you're not going to be able to reason your way through to the thousands of people who enjoy the system as it is now.

By the way, password sharing will be eliminated at some point this year in favor of an automated system for account sitting. There are a number of threads about this in this forum.

[QoH]

Yeah, I think that in this case, only a minute amount of people will support this. Won't go through.

[TheMissionary]

I don't think a few people abusing the option should cause for the responsible people to be punished. There are lots of people who do this responsibly.

[Evil Semp]

By the way, password sharing will be eliminated at some point this year in favor of an automated system for account sitting. There are a number of threads about this in this forum.

This might be true and hopefully a sitter feature will be made soon but this sounds like a good thing to do until a sitter feature is in place.

I say yes to this suggestion.

[Blinkadyblink]

I care much more if someone deadbeats, potentially ruining the balance of a game, than I care if I play against someone who is not officially in the game. Outlawing account sitting would have an even greater effect on tournaments which last much longer than regular games, but can still be changed by a single missed turn. I have personally been eliminated from tournaments after months of playing well because I missed just one turn, and if account sitting were made illegal, constant internet access would become as necessary as skill to win a tournament.

[rdsrds2120]

We're getting a feature (hopefully) this year, as mentioned. Eventually, the problem will be fixed, but I doubt that it's really a problem for most of us. There are a couple highlighted cases that get brought up in C&A, but that is almost negligible to the amount of proper account sitting that goes on by responsible, rule-abiding members.

In addition, why should people who, for instance, want to go on vacation? Are they supposed to just miss turns in all of their games? What if there's a local power outage? These players shouldn't have to have their game abilities (specifically team games) compromised because of environmental factors beyond their control.

-rd

[SirSebstar]

Right now I feel a lot for having the ability to sit for a particular person. However, i cannot in good faith.
But yes, the suggestion has an elegance in simplicity. even though i recognize that it will most likely not be accepter i wish to show my support for it.
it would solve and prevent a few bit of abuses, might even make the multi hunting better and easyer.
but i also desperatly hope a working sitter feature will be implemented..

i agree

[Army of GOD]

I don't see how you could outlaw this. For all you know, saxitoxin has been taking every single one of my turns since I began my account.

[rdsrds2120]

Out of curiosity, how would this exactly be outlawed? How would you possibly catch everyone who sits and report them? Many people who don't read the forums much would probably never be aware of rule change, and many C&A reports would fly up and make the MH's jobs harder. This isn't the way to solve things.

-rd

[Chuuuuck]

I don't think a few people abusing the option should cause for the responsible people to be punished. There are lots of people who do this responsibly.

Completely disagree with this statement. If you read the admin's description for what abuse is, I would say there are A TON of people abusing the system in a manner that is considered abuse. I would go as far as saying almost every single clan is guilty of what should be considered account sitting abuse. Logging into accounts to do anything more than what is absolutely necessary to take the turn after a player is gone for a time period greater than 24 hours and is at risk of missing is pretty much considered abuse. But people log into others accounts for all sorts of reasons within clans that are more than the bare minimum.

I am a huge supporter of this. I would much rather seeing every single person on this site playing their own turn and have more missed turns. If you are going on vacation you can deadbeat your games, find access to a computer, or plan ahead and wind down your games, pretty simple.

[Dukasaur]

I doubt if it will get the support of most, and it may be too extreme a solution, but I think in principle this is a good idea. Turn-sitting has gotten really out of hand, and there are many abuses.

[Dibbun]

Just ban it in tournament games.

[elfish_lad]

I appreciate your passion on this topic Uncle. I think it is in earnest and you have the best in mind for the CC community. Furthermore, you have my clan-mate Chuck's support. That's pretty significant in my world. However, I disagree mate. If we take your suggestion to it's logical course... how does CC enforce this proposed no-sitting rule? There is only one secure way to do that: you can only log in to your account from one IP address. Doesn't work for me.

I've logged in from Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Cleveland, from the office, from home, from a friend's house. I guess that's why I very, very rarely need a sitter. So it will come down to honor. And a player's word. Like it is now. With your system or the current system.

I wasn't having a laugh when I said in an earlier post: let the community monitor itself.

E.

[jefjef]

It is simply ludicrous to suggest an end to sitting. Not only do team games mostly get lost due to missed turns the games get slowed to a snails pace and then those damn deferred troops show up.

There has been a couple high profile sitting abuse cases recently but that is not a wide spread problem. Only a very very few people abuse sitting and they get caught and disciplined.

In your own words: most people really are honest and play fair.

and as mission said:

I don't think a few people abusing the option should cause for the responsible people to be punished. There are lots of people who do this responsibly.

[IcePack]

-1...

[co-co]

I understand the argument, but personally do not support the idea.

A friend has just been on 2 weeks holiday and found that there was no internet access, so I played his games. If this had been outlawed he would have lost every tournament he was currently entered in. The effect of not allowing this would be that tournaments lasting longer than a couple of months would only be won by people who had no life outside of CC as many others would just not bother entering.

[Metsfanmax]

A friend has just been on 2 weeks holiday and found that there was no internet access, so I played his games. If this had been outlawed he would have lost every tournament he was currently entered in. The effect of not allowing this would be that tournaments lasting longer than a couple of months would only be won by people who had no life outside of CC as many others would just not bother entering.

This argument is not compelling. If he had been planning on a two week vacation, he should have planned ahead and not been playing CC games at that time. Sure, the fact that people can sit gives him a way out of that, but he shouldn't be guaranteed the right to play while he's not even connected to the internet.

[macbone]

If password sharing is done away with, then CC needs to implement vacation time-outs. I know this will be hugely unpopular, with everyone else in a game waiting for that player to get back, but I can deal with a player being on vacation. Every chess site I've seen has a vacation option, although most restrict the setting to subscribers.

[Beta Banger]

dumb idea. if I can't make it to a computer there is no problem with someone filling in for me. At the MOST, you can limit the number of times during a game that it can happen but doing away with it only penalizes the honest players because those who abuse will continue to do so.it's in their nature as scummy abusers.
this is sort of like gun control. really dumb idea. bad people will still get guns, but the average joe won't be able to? dumb dumb dee dumb dumb.

[Beta Banger]

oh, and those tennis players in your example, they have big bucks on the line and endorsements deals...when you start paying me for my wins we will talk about tightening the rules. I'm going of vacation in a week, you think I should just forfeit my games because my opponents are dragging their butts on the games? dumb.

[jefjef]

A friend has just been on 2 weeks holiday and found that there was no internet access, so I played his games. If this had been outlawed he would have lost every tournament he was currently entered in. The effect of not allowing this would be that tournaments lasting longer than a couple of months would only be won by people who had no life outside of CC as many others would just not bother entering.

This argument is not compelling. If he had been planning on a two week vacation, he should have planned ahead and not been playing CC games at that time. Sure, the fact that people can sit gives him a way out of that, but he shouldn't be guaranteed the right to play while he's not even connected to the internet.

You want to mod then maybe try reading what is said.

His friend found, as in discovered, that where he went on vacation to had no internet access so co-co needed to step in. Looks like his friend fully planned on taking turns while on vacation.

This is just a crap idea.

[Metsfanmax]

A friend has just been on 2 weeks holiday and found that there was no internet access, so I played his games. If this had been outlawed he would have lost every tournament he was currently entered in. The effect of not allowing this would be that tournaments lasting longer than a couple of months would only be won by people who had no life outside of CC as many others would just not bother entering.

This argument is not compelling. If he had been planning on a two week vacation, he should have planned ahead and not been playing CC games at that time. Sure, the fact that people can sit gives him a way out of that, but he shouldn't be guaranteed the right to play while he's not even connected to the internet.

You want to mod then maybe try reading what is said.

His friend found, as in discovered, that where he went on vacation to had no internet access so co-co needed to step in. Looks like his friend fully planned on taking turns while on vacation.

This is just a crap idea.

I did read what was said. The argument is nevertheless not compelling; it implies that he forgot to check whether he could get internet access when he got there, which just makes it his fault for not preparing in advance.

Please watch the trolling in here.

[stahrgazer]

I can go on and on and site examples, a tennis player goes lame in a match and he loses, no one takes his place. A more experienced and better player certainly doesn't replace him. This happens all too much in CC.

Well, in the Olympics, they frequently do have backups.

I'd prefer someone else to take another's turn, than having a deadbeat or wait 24 hours just for someone to NOT play.

If I'm playing a board game at home, and go to get a drink or whatever, I'll say, "go ahead and roll for me," and to me, having someone sit an account is like that.

In other words: count me among the probable majority who dislike the OP's suggestion.

[Incandenza]

So if power goes out in my building, or if the internet craps out at work, I should miss turns. If on Friday my boss says "Hey, Inc, you have to go somewhere godforsaken on short notice with no guarantee of internet access" (which does indeed happen in my profession), I should miss turns. If my grandmother dies (I couldn't find a sitter for the couple of days around the funeral a few years ago, so I believe missed most of my turns), I should miss turns.

Look, there are more than two states of being, more than just "at home with full internet access" and "on a planned vacation". Yes, if I'm going away for two weeks for a vacation I've known about for months, I'll cycle down games. But shit comes up. And some games last a long time. Who here can absolutely guarantee they'll never go 24 hours without internet access over the next month? Not everyone has an iphone.

And I strongly disagree with Chuck's statement above. If indeed clan members are engaging in the nefarious actions he's described (and it's my opinion that such abuses are pretty rare), then such should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, rather than using a nuke to kill a fly. More to the point, using the "it can be abused" excuse to eliminate something that's popular and useful is a total cop-out. It's an admission that no one is willing to consider shades of gray or alternative solutions. It's just giving up, throwing up one's hands and saying "Well, I guess this can't be solved".

On a personal note, and speaking of crap arguments, I think the next person who uses a professional sport as a comparison for "how things should be on CC" should be punched in the face. This idiotic comparison needs to be squashed with extreme prejudice. As Beta Banger suggested, if you want to pay me cash money for winning games, then it's a valid comparison. Until then, come up with a better goddamn argument.

I guess I missed the part where this somehow benefits the casual user, who, let's not forget, make up the vast majority of players on the site. If you're going to let the actions of a few people in a specialized area f*ck the casual players out of a very useful bit of functionality, then maybe it's clans that should be outlawed, since clearly this is an issue because some people's clan sitting.

Personally, I'd very much like to know more about the proposed sitting function that various members of Management have mentioned. I recall Optimus starting a thread about such a function some months ago, and the function he described was ghastly and ill-conceived. Hopefully Management's thinking on the concept has advanced since then.