Game of Thrones Night 3: The King's Hand, Justice and Guard

[nagerous]

Ah, that awkward silence between when the joke votes end and the real game begins. Anyone want to bite the bullet and fabricate some far out lead from some potential slip up that someone made in the first 7 pages?

[Mr. Squirrel]

Ah, that awkward silence between when the joke votes end and the real game begins. Anyone want to bite the bullet and fabricate some far out lead from some potential slip up that someone made in the first 7 pages?

Sure, how about your lack of a jokevote? Its quite an oddity if you ask me. Are you voteless? If not, then why the lack of a vote? The jokevote stage might seem silly, but you can't really start a game without it. Your unwillingness to participate strikes me as being a little strange. Maybe not scummy, but definitely worth noting.

This is actually a valid thought of mine, not just some bullsh*t I made up to get out of the joke stage.

[nagerous]

Ah, that awkward silence between when the joke votes end and the real game begins. Anyone want to bite the bullet and fabricate some far out lead from some potential slip up that someone made in the first 7 pages?

Sure, how about your lack of a jokevote? Its quite an oddity if you ask me. Are you voteless? If not, then why the lack of a vote? The jokevote stage might seem silly, but you can't really start a game without it. Your unwillingness to participate strikes me as being a little strange. Maybe not scummy, but definitely worth noting.

This is actually a valid thought of mine, not just some bullsh*t I made up to get out of the joke stage.

Refer to it if you will as my own random take on the random vote stage but if it will appease you so much I shall random vote the 11th player in this game, which happens to be..... kwanton! vote kwanton

[kwanton]

:O That's three votes on me. I guess I should claim.

I'm a septuple hated town bomb. It takes 7 less votes to lynch me and I kill the hammerer.

Bye bye nag

[naxus]

:O That's three votes on me. I guess I should claim.

I'm a septuple hated town bomb. It takes 7 less votes to lynch me and I kill the hammerer.

Bye bye nag

Is it bad if I can see that being totally true?

[Haggis_McMutton]

:O That's three votes on me. I guess I should claim.

I'm a septuple hated town bomb. It takes 7 less votes to lynch me and I kill the hammerer.

Bye bye nag

Is it bad if I can see that being totally true?

*checks first post*

nope, this isn't a sully game.

[safariguy5]

Ok, here's a serious post from me, and I'll explain why I am deciding to claim.

I am Varys, the Master of Whispers.

I am third party, but whether or not I win depends on the number of people left in the winning faction.

Basically, for me to win, this game must end with about 5-6 players left, doesn't matter if mafia or town win.

Each night, I get three night actions from the mod, with some information missing.

For example, if nagerous roleblocked Mr. Squirrel, then I might get something like

"nagerous visited Mr. Squirrel"
or
"nagerous roleblocked someone"
or
"someone roleblocked Mr. Squirrel"

I have to send one of the actions to the king and one to the mafia leader.

I do not know which player I am sending the action to.

The third action I may either keep to myself or send to one of the leaders.


The reason I'm claiming now is because quite frankly, there's a good chance that I might be targeted for a NK by either mafia or a vig. Seeing as how I benefit both sides, I figure both sides have good enough reason to want me to stay alive. Now I'm taking something of a risk as I don't know if there's an SKer, but I simply ask that nobody try to kill me. It's probably better that I claim now than when I'm L-1 or if I get NKed early on. Understand that I know that claiming like this is very out of the ordinary for most mafia games, but given my role and the WC I have, I think it's best if I claim now.

[kwanton]

Hmmm I don't know what to make of that safari.

I'm willing to believe your claim until other evidence proves otherwise but the fact remains that non-town is non-town. What's to say that when it comes down to later in the game, near-LYLO you won't turn around and help mafia if you think they'll win. Since it doesn't matter to you who wins, you're unreliable to both sides now. Especially with the nature of your power, you can potentially win or lose the game for one side and we have no guarantee you'll side with town at end game.

One question: When you send the night actions into the king and godfather, it has to go through the mod first right? Can you change the results at all? As in can you send out false results?

Since you are not against town at least yet, I'd say give safari a free pass now (very temporary) since if he decides to help town its an extra tracker-type role.

[safariguy5]

Hmmm I don't know what to make of that safari.

I'm willing to believe your claim until other evidence proves otherwise but the fact remains that non-town is non-town. What's to say that when it comes down to later in the game, near-LYLO you won't turn around and help mafia if you think they'll win. Since it doesn't matter to you who wins, you're unreliable to both sides now. Especially with the nature of your power, you can potentially win or lose the game for one side and we have no guarantee you'll side with town at end game.

One question: When you send the night actions into the king and godfather, it has to go through the mod first right? Can you change the results at all? As in can you send out false results?

Since you are not against town at least yet, I'd say give safari a free pass now (very temporary) since if he decides to help town its an extra tracker-type role.

I have to send it to the mod, as I stated above, I don't know who the king and mafia godfather are. I do know the rolenames, but not who they are.

You are right of course, I'm unreliable to either side, but the information that I can provide I hope makes me valuable enough to keep around. But basically, the quicker the victory the better for me. A massclaim end with like 2 townies and 1 mafia means a loss for me anyways, so I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. Leveraging information for my survival is probably the best way for me to play it right now.

[kwanton]

hmmmmmm alright...

[Mr. Squirrel]

Ok, here's a serious post from me, and I'll explain why I am deciding to claim.

I am Varys, the Master of Whispers.

I am third party, but whether or not I win depends on the number of people left in the winning faction.

Basically, for me to win, this game must end with about 5-6 players left, doesn't matter if mafia or town win.

Each night, I get three night actions from the mod, with some information missing.

For example, if nagerous roleblocked Mr. Squirrel, then I might get something like

"nagerous visited Mr. Squirrel"
or
"nagerous roleblocked someone"
or
"someone roleblocked Mr. Squirrel"

I have to send one of the actions to the king and one to the mafia leader.

I do not know which player I am sending the action to.

The third action I may either keep to myself or send to one of the leaders.


The reason I'm claiming now is because quite frankly, there's a good chance that I might be targeted for a NK by either mafia or a vig. Seeing as how I benefit both sides, I figure both sides have good enough reason to want me to stay alive. Now I'm taking something of a risk as I don't know if there's an SKer, but I simply ask that nobody try to kill me. It's probably better that I claim now than when I'm L-1 or if I get NKed early on. Understand that I know that claiming like this is very out of the ordinary for most mafia games, but given my role and the WC I have, I think it's best if I claim now.

I can vouch for this as being most likely correct, just based on flavor. In the books, Varys works for all sides and his only motive is to "support the kingdom". For him, it doesn't matter who rules so long as the kingdom itself survives. Or at least, thats how far I've gotten in the books.

I say keep him alive for now. We never know when he will change sides, but no matter what, we still recieve information regardless of who he supports. As long as the town can keep lynching scum, then we have no reason to believe he would help them.

I don't know who the king and mafia godfather are. I do know the rolenames, but not who they are.

Can you tell us the rolenames? I could probably deduce the rolenames of most of the mafia if I had just the godfather's name. And I assume the king is Robert?

[/]

Wait so let me get this straight, although you don't know the players, you do know who you are sending it to, right? Like "send A specifically to the King" and not "send A and B to whoever gets it" right?

This is a bit disconcerting, for one thing I would not expect a win with scum to consist of 5-6 other people in a 18 player game as a possibility. This would typically not be possible given the typical size of a mafia for a game this size, like four or five at the most? That would mean they would have to pull off a nearly flawless victory for saf to side with them, another thing is, if this is indeed the case he is more of a liability to town.
Example: lets say the game is split as so 10 town, 4 mafia, 4 third parties, since realistically there would need to be plenty of third parties to supplement a victory as such.
Assuming everyone has an action type role, There is a 10/18 chance that the information will be about town. There is a 4/18 chance the info will be about mafia.
This is obviously far better odds for the Mafia.

The other possibility would make this a faction game, something like 8 Town, 8 Mafia, 2 other, like in revolutionary war, crusades, etc. No clue on the possibility of this, can anyone who knows about the series comment on the more likely balance?

In any case I must say you are may be a major liability without a prior agreement, so thank you for siding with us.

The terms are as so, if there is a choice to send benign info, possible anti town info, and important pro town info. The priority should be as follows.
Town info, such as "Mr.Towndoc protected someone" should be sent to the king with the utmost priority, so he can be sure you aren't sending it to the mafia. If this info isn't available, the next in priority should be info on possible anti-town "Player A happened to murder Player B." so we know you aren't keeping that to yourself.
the least useful info should logically be sent to the godfather "someone watched player X"

Also perhaps you should share with us the next day any anti-town info so the king doesn't have to claim, and info you shared with the godfather so he doesn't give out licenses to fake-claim watchers and trackers with his known info. (The mafia knows, so who should we hide it from?)

In return you should definitely be watched by the watcher so the mafia won't target you (the reason I don't say doc is because until we can confirm this isn't a faction game, it puts the doc at risk from a mafia watcher.)

[safariguy5]

Ok, here's a serious post from me, and I'll explain why I am deciding to claim.

I am Varys, the Master of Whispers.

I am third party, but whether or not I win depends on the number of people left in the winning faction.

Basically, for me to win, this game must end with about 5-6 players left, doesn't matter if mafia or town win.

Each night, I get three night actions from the mod, with some information missing.

For example, if nagerous roleblocked Mr. Squirrel, then I might get something like

"nagerous visited Mr. Squirrel"
or
"nagerous roleblocked someone"
or
"someone roleblocked Mr. Squirrel"

I have to send one of the actions to the king and one to the mafia leader.

I do not know which player I am sending the action to.

The third action I may either keep to myself or send to one of the leaders.


The reason I'm claiming now is because quite frankly, there's a good chance that I might be targeted for a NK by either mafia or a vig. Seeing as how I benefit both sides, I figure both sides have good enough reason to want me to stay alive. Now I'm taking something of a risk as I don't know if there's an SKer, but I simply ask that nobody try to kill me. It's probably better that I claim now than when I'm L-1 or if I get NKed early on. Understand that I know that claiming like this is very out of the ordinary for most mafia games, but given my role and the WC I have, I think it's best if I claim now.

I can vouch for this as being most likely correct, just based on flavor. In the books, Varys works for all sides and his only motive is to "support the kingdom". For him, it doesn't matter who rules so long as the kingdom itself survives. Or at least, thats how far I've gotten in the books.

I say keep him alive for now. We never know when he will change sides, but no matter what, we still recieve information regardless of who he supports. As long as the town can keep lynching scum, then we have no reason to believe he would help them.

I don't know who the king and mafia godfather are. I do know the rolenames, but not who they are.

Can you tell us the rolenames? I could probably deduce the rolenames of most of the mafia if I had just the godfather's name. And I assume the king is Robert?

Queen Cersi is Mafia, Hand of the King is who receives my town information.

[nagerous]

The latter would be Ned Stark then I imagine.

[safariguy5]

Wait so let me get this straight, although you don't know the players, you do know who you are sending it to, right? Like "send A specifically to the King" and not "send A and B to whoever gets it" right?

This is a bit disconcerting, for one thing I would not expect a win with scum to consist of 5-6 other people in a 18 player game as a possibility. This would typically not be possible given the typical size of a mafia for a game this size, like four or five at the most? That would mean they would have to pull off a nearly flawless victory for saf to side with them, another thing is, if this is indeed the case he is more of a liability to town.
Example: lets say the game is split as so 10 town, 4 mafia, 4 third parties, since realistically there would need to be plenty of third parties to supplement a victory as such.
Assuming everyone has an action type role, There is a 10/18 chance that the information will be about town. There is a 4/18 chance the info will be about mafia.
This is obviously far better odds for the Mafia.

The other possibility would make this a faction game, something like 8 Town, 8 Mafia, 2 other, like in revolutionary war, crusades, etc. No clue on the possibility of this, can anyone who knows about the series comment on the more likely balance?

In any case I must say you are may be a major liability without a prior agreement, so thank you for siding with us.

The terms are as so, if there is a choice to send benign info, possible anti town info, and important pro town info. The priority should be as follows.
Town info, such as "Mr.Towndoc protected someone" should be sent to the king with the utmost priority, so he can be sure you aren't sending it to the mafia. If this info isn't available, the next in priority should be info on possible anti-town "Player A happened to murder Player B." so we know you aren't keeping that to yourself.
the least useful info should logically be sent to the godfather "someone watched player X"

Also perhaps you should share with us the next day any anti-town info so the king doesn't have to claim, and info you shared with the godfather so he doesn't give out licenses to fake-claim watchers and trackers with his known info. (The mafia knows, so who should we hide it from?)

In return you should definitely be watched by the watcher so the mafia won't target you (the reason I don't say doc is because until we can confirm this isn't a faction game, it puts the doc at risk from a mafia watcher.)

Look, if you really think I'm that much of a liability, then you might as well vote me now. The information I give to Town is quite useful, I think it might be a good idea for the King to know approx. how many cops and docs he might have and maybe even who is investigating who. Both sides stand to lose a lot of information as the game goes on if I end up dying. Especially a few days in when we start losing roles with night actions, getting information will get clearer, especially to help build cases i.e. ("nagerous, why did you visit Mr. Squirrel last night?") and really I think will keep leads fresh longer than the lull that tends to happen in most midgames. I personally don't even request any of the town's protective or watcher powers, mafia would be wasting a NK and future information by killing me.

Although you do bring up a good point /, I sort of doubt any third party factions in the game given the numbers.

[nagerous]

Also, from that we can deduce that the Lannisters are also the bad guys, though that doesn't strike me as a surprise considering they are not exactly the nicest of characters in the tv series , pushing a little boy off the side of a tower was a particular low.

[/]

Wait so let me get this straight, although you don't know the players, you do know who you are sending it to, right? Like "send A specifically to the King" and not "send A and B to whoever gets it" right?

Look, if you really think I'm that much of a liability, then you might as well vote me now. The information I give to Town is quite useful, I think it might be a good idea for the King to know approx. how many cops and docs he might have and maybe even who is investigating who. Both sides stand to lose a lot of information as the game goes on if I end up dying. Especially a few days in when we start losing roles with night actions, getting information will get clearer, especially to help build cases i.e. ("nagerous, why did you visit Mr. Squirrel last night?") and really I think will keep leads fresh longer than the lull that tends to happen in most midgames. I personally don't even request any of the town's protective or watcher powers, mafia would be wasting a NK and future information by killing me.

Although you do bring up a good point /, I sort of doubt any third party factions in the game given the numbers.

Hmm, the top part that I bolded is the important factor in whether or not I think you are a liability to town, or an important ally, can you confirm which it is please?

[Mr. Squirrel]

Also, from that we can deduce that the Lannisters are also the bad guys, though that doesn't strike me as a surprise considering they are not exactly the nicest of characters in the tv series , pushing a little boy off the side of a tower was a particular low.

That's what I thought too, but I wanted to make sure.

Queen Cersi is Mafia,

So the mafia is the lannisters: Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion and Joffrey are probably a given. Tywin is likely, but in the book he is isn't quite so corrupt and amoral as the other lannisters. I wouldn't discount him being in there somewhere though. A 5 person mafia could be balanced to fit within this game. Cersei as Godfather makes sense I guess (since this is only the first book).

Hand of the King is who receives my town information.

That would be Ned Stark. I know for a fact that iliad didn't include Jon Arryn in this game (the previous hand to the king).

The other possibility would make this a faction game, something like 8 Town, 8 Mafia, 2 other, like in revolutionary war, crusades, etc. No clue on the possibility of this, can anyone who knows about the series comment on the more likely balance?

Given the story and the series, I find it very likely that he could have set it up similar to the Eragon mafia (small town, small mafia, huge 3rd party) on account that most of the activity in the books revolves around the different royal houses trying to gain support from the lesser houses. Two large factions like what you describe seem unlikely simply because there aren't a lot of main characters in each royal house.

That said, I think this was set up more like a traditional mafia setup (large town, small mafia, small third party) simply because I think that my role would have been 3rd party had he decided to go with the 'large third party' approach.

[strike wolf]

All this flavor spec has me completely lost.

I'm not sure what to make of safari's claim...from a role perspective it just seems odd to me but someone seems to say it fits the flavor of the character and I have no clue if that's true or not.

[naxus]

All this flavor spec has me completely lost.

I'm not sure what to make of safari's claim...from a role perspective it just seems odd to me but someone seems to say it fits the flavor of the character and I have no clue if that's true or not.

+1 to being lost on flavor spec

Safaris role seems like a good role early on but it depends on how the game go's. If the town does a mislynch or two and mafia gets a kill he could quickly decide to change sides. Agree with Kwan that he needs to be watched as the game unfolds

Unvote If needed, not sure where my joke vote was

[safariguy5]

Wait so let me get this straight, although you don't know the players, you do know who you are sending it to, right? Like "send A specifically to the King" and not "send A and B to whoever gets it" right?

Look, if you really think I'm that much of a liability, then you might as well vote me now. The information I give to Town is quite useful, I think it might be a good idea for the King to know approx. how many cops and docs he might have and maybe even who is investigating who. Both sides stand to lose a lot of information as the game goes on if I end up dying. Especially a few days in when we start losing roles with night actions, getting information will get clearer, especially to help build cases i.e. ("nagerous, why did you visit Mr. Squirrel last night?") and really I think will keep leads fresh longer than the lull that tends to happen in most midgames. I personally don't even request any of the town's protective or watcher powers, mafia would be wasting a NK and future information by killing me.

Although you do bring up a good point /, I sort of doubt any third party factions in the game given the numbers.

Hmm, the top part that I bolded is the important factor in whether or not I think you are a liability to town, or an important ally, can you confirm which it is please?

Yes, I do get to choose which action I send to town and which action I send to mafia. I just PM the mod.

All this flavor spec has me completely lost.

I'm not sure what to make of safari's claim...from a role perspective it just seems odd to me but someone seems to say it fits the flavor of the character and I have no clue if that's true or not.

+1 to being lost on flavor spec

Safaris role seems like a good role early on but it depends on how the game go's. If the town does a mislynch or two and mafia gets a kill he could quickly decide to change sides. Agree with Kwan that he needs to be watched as the game unfolds

Unvote If needed, not sure where my joke vote was

Hey, does anyone remember what happened in Red Dead Redemption mafia? I try to play third parties with an eye to surviving, but if people wanna get all lynch happy on me, I'm perfectly happy with doing some collateral damage as I'm going down. I've made my intentions clear, but this "turning on town" business is a bit silly. Come on, you think the Hand of the King might not want information on who has night actions so that when we pressure claims later on he can either confirm or deny them? Think about it, the more people I report to town, the less wiggle room mafia have to use in their fakeclaims. Any old mafia player can claim roleblocker or jailkeeper or even a sanity cop and we'd have almost no way of confirming that short of lynch.

But if you all don't see the value information is to the town, you might as well kill me now. I look at it as low risk high reward, not the other way around.

[edocsil]

Under no circumstances will we hang you today. To valuable.

[kwanton]

You haven't answered one of my questions. On page 7 I asked you if you could send out false results. This is really important info. Of course if you can change the results you'll probably lie about it, but that's WIFOM at this point so screw it.

The reason I ask is If you can lie, you can swing the game really far to the advantage of one side. If you can tell the mod to send out wrong results you can manipulate town (and to a lesser extent mafia) so much more. This is what bothers me, if you can lie, you have the potential of hurting town so much more than mafia.

The other thing I find sketch about your role claim is that it is a de facto outing for the town King if we want any -100% RELIABLE- information. I say that because (assuming you CANT tell the mod to send false results) you are confirmed third-party AFAIK and I will never FULLY trust you. I believe your claim for now, and I see that you are valuable which is why I'm inclined to not lynch you today. However, you have a role that gives info that we can only really trust if it comes out of the King's mouth himself. Saf, you can lie about any of your results and potentially make an argument to survive it because of the vagueness of your results (X killed kwan or kwan X'd Fircoal doesn't give much info at all and could lead to a mislynch) and the fact that you're de facto cleared non-mafia So the two possibilities we have from this role are outing the main townie or putting our trust in someone we may not be able to trust.


And responding to / :

It's not that safari needs 5-6 mafia or 5-6 town alive at the end to win, its 5-6 total players. So an endgame with 3 mafia 2 town plus him (don't forget he counts as one player too) would be a win for him. At least thats how I understand it. So he really could go either way at ANY point in the game.


Keep him alive, but take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

[kwanton]

ABWOP: I'd like to make it clear that the King should not out himself based on any info from safari.

Maybe if you get two killing results from him that out scum and only if you think we can trust him completely at that point.

[Bleed_Green]

Saf, I think everyone can see how beneficial you possibly could be to the town however there is a lot that can happen that you could be the main cause for the town demise, with the ability to pick and choose who gets what information. Do you also have the ability to be recruited?