The 12 hour fog 'rule'

[Qwert]

i see, but what all these have with GD forum?
Why we have Question and answer forum,when everybody open topic in GD. And when i say that these is wrong place,some tell that i spamming,
Also i dont see any buton for reporting a topic.

[natty dread]

Qwert, the english language is a fascinating thing.

For example, you can form a thread title in the form of a question, even when the purpose of said thread is to create discussion. When the purpose of a thread is to generate discussion and hear opinions from various parties, the thread belongs in General Discussions. Q&A is for simple questions about the game, questions that have factual answers, not things you can have opinions about. The line is sometimes hazy, but insisting that every thread be moved to Q&A simply because the topic is phrased in the form of a question is simply idiotic.

[Master Fenrir]

For example, you can form a thread title in the form of a question, even when the purpose of said thread is to create discussion. When the purpose of a thread is to generate discussion and hear opinions from various parties, the thread belongs in General Discussions. Q&A is for simple questions about the game, questions that have factual answers, not things you can have opinions about. The line is sometimes hazy, but insisting that every thread be moved to Q&A simply because the topic is phrased in the form of a question is simply idiotic.

Natty is 100% correct. For example, qwert, the thread "Does it bother you when fellow players refer to cyan as teal" doesn't belong in Q&A because the answer is opinion-based and not fact-based.

[lostatlimbo]

Thanks for merging this. Now having read the back comments, I have learned:

A) it is not a big deal if I need to take my turn before this 'window'
B) trapyoung is a colossal idiot

[trapyoung]

Thanks for merging this. Now having read the back comments, I have learned:

A) it is not a big deal if I need to take my turn before this 'window'
B) trapyoung is a colossal idiot

You're revealing a well-kept secret

[Master Fenrir]

Thanks for merging this. Now having read the back comments, I have learned:

A) it is not a big deal if I need to take my turn before this 'window'
B) trapyoung is a colossal idiot

You're revealing a well-kept secret

Well-kept? They send out a PM about it when you register.

[elfish_lad]

Well-kept? They send out a PM about it when you register.

Shit. And to think I had to learn that the hard way.

E.

[jefjef]

Thanks for merging this. Now having read the back comments, I have learned:

A) it is not a big deal if I need to take my turn before this 'window'
B) trapyoung is a colossal idiot

QFT! Quality post!

For those that want fog rule (afraid of the dark) go play in the sun.

[trapyoung]

Well-kept? They send out a PM about it when you register.

Oh did they? Well I registered in October 2007, while you registered in April 2009... How did you get that pm, unless... - oh my golly. Cheese and crackers! Multi! MULTI!!! ARHRHRHGFHGH! Jefjef, quickly, avert your eyes - foe him before damage is wrought!

Lostatlimbo, you must help. We need to shove MF into the airlock before he does more harm! AGGGHRHHGHGH!

...So should I have josko or eddie do the C&A legwork for me?

[BoganGod]

Well-kept? They send out a PM about it when you register.

Oh did they? Well I registered in October 2007, while you registered in April 2009... How did you get that pm, unless... - oh my golly. Cheese and crackers! Multi! MULTI!!! ARHRHRHGFHGH! Jefjef, quickly, avert your eyes - foe him before damage is wrought!

Lostatlimbo, you must help. We need to shove MF into the airlock before he does more harm! AGGGHRHHGHGH!

...So should I have josko or eddie do the C&A legwork for me?

Definitely josko, he writes in english. Though if you want to curse MF for CC life with an A grade stalker then maybe option2. Check army of god's sig if you want to assess mathematical skills of prospective OP.

I'm just saddened to know that there is now zero chance of MF joining KOA, as KOA has a multi check done on all new members..... Unless of course the mod doing the multi check is a multi? My head is hurting, more rum needed.

[canadian bacon]

uh isn't half the purpose of fog of war to make it so you don't know where everyone is at? i think fog games should hide everyone's location from everyone save allies even at the beginning. if you don't like playing that way, so be it, you don't have to play.

[Leehar]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but I think it's important to remember that one of the reasons this is needed, is because people sometimes deliberately join games second in order to take advantage of this and remove the possibility of an opponent even being able to know what the base drop was. I just had a fog game where something similar happened, in which the opponent joined second, took his turn first managed to get 2 bonuses, and left me not knowing what happened, ultimately by the second turn when the bonus became obvious, the game was over, and pretty much wasn't even worth playing

[Theldin]

I personally love Fog of war. But I feel there should be a feature put in the game to snapshot the game at initialization for each player to view, similar to Snapshot in chat.

There is no reason that a person should not know what a person had to start with. I never understood why the game log won't tell you which territory you had and lost?

If this was from a military perspective, I would always know where my initial troop placements were. Even if they were knocked out, and I had no idea what took them out, I would have still known where they started.

[squishyg]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but I think it's important to remember that one of the reasons this is needed, is because people sometimes deliberately join games second in order to take advantage of this and remove the possibility of an opponent even being able to know what the base drop was. I just had a fog game where something similar happened, in which the opponent joined second, took his turn first managed to get 2 bonuses, and left me not knowing what happened, ultimately by the second turn when the bonus became obvious, the game was over, and pretty much wasn't even worth playing

i keep reading this argument and I don't understand it. if first turn is random, it doesn't matter what order you join.

[maasman]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before, but I think it's important to remember that one of the reasons this is needed, is because people sometimes deliberately join games second in order to take advantage of this and remove the possibility of an opponent even being able to know what the base drop was. I just had a fog game where something similar happened, in which the opponent joined second, took his turn first managed to get 2 bonuses, and left me not knowing what happened, ultimately by the second turn when the bonus became obvious, the game was over, and pretty much wasn't even worth playing

i keep reading this argument and I don't understand it. if first turn is random, it doesn't matter what order you join.

Because if the second person happens to go first, then player 1 is screwed, whereas if player 1 goes first, then both players get a chance to look at the board.

Personally I don't care about the fog rule and consider it a part of the game until CC does something about it.

[Swifte]

I only take the 12 hour fog rule very seriously if it is stated as a rule in a tournament or clan war. The easiest way to make sure no one is confused in that situation is to include '12hr fg' in the game title - how can anyone plead ignorance with that? Beyond those situations, I consider the 12 hour rule to be a common courtesy but I don't see it as something worth flipping out over while playing a public game.... not everyone pours over the forums and some people are going to do what they want to do anyway - that's public games for you.

All that said, I think it's a good rule of thumb, generally makes for a better game as several folks have stated, and I'd support any action taken by the fine people here at CC to make it a programmed rule (snapshot is not a bad alternative, but not everyone uses Bob.) I will say however that this is not that high on my list of desired upgrades either.

[JohnnyMac]

If this was from a military perspective, I would always know where my initial troop placements were. Even if they were knocked out, and I had no idea what took them out, I would have still known where they started.

^^
Agreed.

[trapyoung]

I personally love Fog of war. But I feel there should be a feature put in the game to snapshot the game at initialization for each player to view, similar to Snapshot in chat.

There is no reason that a person should not know what a person had to start with. I never understood why the game log won't tell you which territory you had and lost?

If this was from a military perspective, I would always know where my initial troop placements were. Even if they were knocked out, and I had no idea what took them out, I would have still known where they started.

QFT. Absolutely.



Squishy, the join second thing makes sense because the team that joins last always has the option to see the map. If they get first move, they get first look and can take the turn before the creating team has a chance to see the map. If the team that joins last does not get first move, they at least get to see the map before having team 1 move.

[squishyg]

thanks for the explanations boys. all i have to say to that is that there's usually some sort of an advantage to going first, which is why we delight in complaining about the randomness of first turn!

but for reals, there's always something that could be argued as less fair- drop, first turn, bonuses, being red vs. green. all i can say is that its never bothered me to not have first look at the map. i don't even have access to snapshots 95% of my turns anyway.

[Dibbun]

What a stupid thread. Cry more, and play no fog if you can't handle the mystery.

[canadian bacon]

I personally love Fog of war. But I feel there should be a feature put in the game to snapshot the game at initialization for each player to view, similar to Snapshot in chat.

There is no reason that a person should not know what a person had to start with. I never understood why the game log won't tell you which territory you had and lost?

If this was from a military perspective, I would always know where my initial troop placements were. Even if they were knocked out, and I had no idea what took them out, I would have still known where they started.

the point of fog is so no one gets to see the board. you want to know where the other guy started? don't play fog. plain and simple.

[sam02]

I have a suggestion, could we have a "PUBLIC SNAPSHOT", i mean a snapshot link created in public chat, so when the 12h rule apply people can start to play now if they want after having snapshoted in public chat!
It could also be very usefull for all fog games to allow opponents to see what your first moove is, it brings fairplay and prevent to pm opponents to be sure they snaped before you take your 1st turn...

[jefjef]

It would need to be [Team chat] snapshots.. Public would be a bunch of question marks. Or are you suggesting a snap showing the entire drop>? No thanks.

[chapcrap]

Maybe a solution could be to have Round 1 in Fog games just be a check in round that is freestyle. It would pretty much be like Round 1 of a Manual King's Court game. You go and check in and there is nothing to deploy, but you get to see the board and then play can start as normal after the check in. It would be a similar fashion to the start of manual games, just no troop deployment.