WWII - Eastern Front-statistic page 1 [Quenched]5000 finish

alster · Post by **alster** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:54 pm

Well. I support him out of principle.

Of course there's a good and important point abput having a map foundry. But I understand if he reached the limit of his patience. There has, after all, been quite a lot of suggestions, harsch words etc. etc.

He's an artist in a way. And I think that the guys actually putting in the time and effort designing the maps should be given some slack. It's a good map, and if he's happy, well...

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:43 pm

I always thought it was, if you can come up with a logical reason for why dyou dont want to do a suggestion you don't have to do it.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:23 pm

Thank god your not making a map then.....

I supported Qwert and still do (kinda)....

I believe a few people in here are against Qwert (naming no one) and are also very pickey with his map.

However the rules are there and should be read before you start a map. He had no valid reason for some things that where asked of him that would only improve his map after all!!!!

Although some people like boberz wanted him to change the title.WHICH had already been VOTED on...

But Qwert behaved in a childish and silly manner about the whole thing..

Also check out San Franisco map with its over lapping border lines and its been Final Forged....

THats where you can see Qwert WAS being picked on!!

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:48 pm

Guiscard wrote:If you followed the thread properly you may have realised EVERYONE who supported Qwert at any stage has been alienated by his childish strbborn nature.

QFT!

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:32 pm

qft..what the f does that mean?

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:20 am

Also check out San Franisco map with its over lapping border lines and its been Final Forged....

Thats a bunch of BS. . you went into the forum, made that statement and Johloh asked you nicely to tell you where these flaws were and you have yet to say anything. you know why? because they don't exist. Then you pop in there and make some comment about an imaginary floating pixel.. Sounds like a little jealousy to me. Fact is, the SF map is far better than this one at this point and mainly because Johloh, unlike qwert, actually listens to those who make suggestions and tries out their ideas. get a life

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:51 am

are you on another planet?

Whats this got to do about qwert's map?

Is that you in the picture? I thought they only let poeple over 16 into the Map foundry!!

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:12 am

hulmey wrote:
Whats this got to do about qwert's map?

I have no idea! You are the one who brought it up here, comparing the two maps as a means of defending qwert.

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:49 am

i still think the title does need changing, but i thin he does have a justified reason not to change it so thats ok. BUT keyogi brought up 4-5 other things that needed changing and qwert just said no i dont want to do them without justification and then abandoned the map. Just because qwert thread had already been in final forge does not guarentee a quick route back.

qeee1 · Post by **qeee1** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:45 am

I like this map more than san fransisco, though I want to see this map finished more than any other map, except perhaps for Japan...

Please finish it qwert...

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:56 am

qeee1 wrote:I like this map more than san fransisco, though I want to see this map finished more than any other map, except perhaps for Japan...

Please finish it qwert...

your a little late to the party qee

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:33 pm

lets keep this thread alive...

Long live Qwert, long live the King

qeee1 · Post by **qeee1** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:01 pm

mibi wrote:
qeee1 wrote:I like this map more than san fransisco, though I want to see this map finished more than any other map, except perhaps for Japan...

Please finish it qwert...
your a little late to the party qee

Actually I posted several times since it went abandoned. Here's another, only this time I'll rant some more.

The problem for qwert is:

1) He can't understand english so well so it's probably difficult for him to understand the reasoning behind the proposed changes
2) Same reason means he can't refute the proposed changes

Only nobody makes any allowances for this, as people have said certain people have been extra picky with this map.

To look at the latest batch of proposed changes:

Ok, first thing I'm going to mention is the territory names since they seem to be the latest issue. I'm fine with all of them except for one... Isthmus of Perekop. It's quite long and I'm wondering what sort of impact it will have on the drop-down menu. Would it be a problem to just call it Perekop?

That's an issue for the xml, not the map itself, for example on Middle East, Isreal and Palestinian territory is just Isreal and PT for xml purposes.

The colour of Stalingrad Army is bothering me. It's pretty awful and unless it has some significance I'm sure you could come up with a nicer shade of green.

What? I've always thought the map was pretty, and the colours really suited it. Also if it bothered you that much why didn't you bring it up way earlier?

Another concern is the army shadows. They pratically disappear in von Rundstedt Army and it's something that I think could be fixed in one of two ways. Change the shade of the army shadows themselves or change the shade of von Rundstedt Army so the shadows are more visible. The shadows also seem to have a faint white edge on them which gives them a rough/aliased look.

It was already decided the army shadows were fine back here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... &start=945

The other major issue recently was the borders. These still appear to be a problem. I wonder if reducing the opacity of them slightly would help.

The borders aren't really an issue to me, they seemed fine to me jagged, and fine to me after blurring. I doubt many people want to see them further refined.

It was mentioned some time ago (by I can't remember who) that the legend shadows could possibly be changed. I don't mind the legend staying as it is, but I would like to see the helmets and star given a shadow as well to lift them off the board like the rest of the legend.

Maybe... without the map to hand I can't really comment.

I'm not sure the sea labels are needed. They kind of look cramped in there.

That's a fair point.

eh someone said something about the title being wrong or something

The title is fine. Was a fairly lengthy discussion of it.

fireside said something about bonuses

eh... can't judge without map.

Your map has been in Final Forge but when you put the map on vacation you lost your Final Forge brand. You will need to earn it again before progressing to the Quenched stage I believe.

This seems a bit rediculous, a map is nearly ready, but when you take a break it's suddenly less ready.

I think much of qwert's frustration comes from the fact that every time he implements a change some new thing pops up for him to change. At this stage it's just nitpicking.

You have to stop being so stubborn and admit they arent good enough for CC yet.

Last 3 maps: Senate Map, Mountains and Chinese Checkers...

Graphically these maps have no mistakes and are near perfect

Siege Map is also another perfect map nearing completiton...

Im sorry but your map hasnt reached that standard yet....Why should foundry changes its standards just for you.

Honestly I think this map is just as "graphically perfect" as those maps. Look at the senate and tell me it looks better. Seige is awesome though, I'll give you that.

There's my rant on the matter. Honestly I would have loved to play this map around page 50, everything since seemed unimportant.

I hope qwert will come back to this.

Changes that could be implemented:
Removal of sea names
Give shadows to helmets
look at bonuses.

I don't see any justification for any of the other suggestions.

cosmin · Post by **cosmin** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:16 pm

qeee1 wrote:
Changes that could be implemented:
Removal of sea names
Give shadows to helmets
look at bonuses.

I don't see any justification for any of the other suggestions.

The bonuses have been discused snd rediscused and thre fine now, the majority decited that there are good, you can't modify the bonuses for everybody, if i whould have wanted an 100 armies bonus for keeping stalingrad, qwert isn't obligated to change this thing just for me, because: im just one guy who wants this and because its an insane idea.

The sea names adds to the aspect of the map, and because it doesn't affect playability i dont see the point for this demand.

The shadows of the helmets has been discussed, the helmets had shadows but someone said they shouldn't be so he removed them, now somebody thinks that the helmets should have, i would have gone crazy in this istance.

The problem is that this map threath is to long and nobody knows exactly all the changes so everybody who suggests something, that something has been already suggested and or repaired or removed. The crazyness apears when somebody whants something removed, you remove it and another person comes wanting that thing back, and you have to satisfie everybody so you keep putting and removing until you snap and every suggestion drives you crazy.

For those who want to make further suggestion: read the whole threat and then suggest. If you don't want to read the whole thing so dont make suggestions and go to the social lounge where you can post until you get bored.

-Cosmin-

Ninja-Town · Post by **Ninja-Town** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:33 pm

I agree with everything quee1 has said... it's very true. I think some got fed up with his "antics" and would never allow this map to get made. They may not have seen it that way, but from an outsiders point of view, you all seemed very short with quert.

I believe authors rights should be limited, due to the foundry process, but when is enough enough? I also would have played eastern front around page 50. Hell it has more playability then King of the Mountains, chinese checkers, and senate! And that should be the best part of a map... playability, not smooth rivers. Who cares???? and Who would have noticed????

Now I may never play on this map, all because some people could not put aside thier differences. It was on final forge for a reason the first time.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:05 pm

Cosmin I agree that some of the demands were a bit too much but the bonuses is another issue.

I believe that Fireside Poet had a valid point and even though they had been discussed before once you bring forward a valid argument which qwert did not even try to explain why he did not agree with (instead he told us to pm Marvaddin...as if this was Marvaddin's map!) the change should have been done as it affected gameplay.

Apart from the bonuses I was fine with everything else. Anyway as I told you before, qwert will be back in a couple of weeks so don't worry this map will get quenched someday or another.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:15 pm

Someone (possibly qee1) said something about the Senate Map and I agree that I like it less graphically than this one. Then, again, I suppose the Senate map is supposed to be all boxy with straight lines and few curves and what have you.

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:16 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:Apart from the bonuses I was fine with everything else. Anyway as I told you before, qwert will be back in a couple of weeks so don't worry this map will get quenched someday or another.

meaning, before April, 2010?

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:17 pm

Serbia wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Apart from the bonuses I was fine with everything else. Anyway as I told you before, qwert will be back in a couple of weeks so don't worry this map will get quenched someday or another.

meaning, before April, 2010?

More like before the end of the year. I am an optimistic kind of person though...

Serbia · Post by **Serbia** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:18 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:
Serbia wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Apart from the bonuses I was fine with everything else. Anyway as I told you before, qwert will be back in a couple of weeks so don't worry this map will get quenched someday or another.

meaning, before April, 2010?
More like before the end of the year. I am an optimistic kind of person though...

Well I hope you're right, I like the map a lot.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:27 pm

i doubt it will ever be quenched because i think that some heavy hitters here in the foundry dont want it to be....

someone mentioned the Title wasnt all that good and Keyogi agreed and asked for it to be changed. I mentioned that this issue and been discussed and VOTEd on,,The reply form the Asst Cartographier was that in the 2 weeks that the map had been on Vacation Qwert had got better at designing ...

Come on thats bullshit..I got nothing against Keyogi but somethings a miss here!!!!

So i believe with the odds stacked aganst him Qwert's maps willn ever se light of day!!

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:41 pm

We're almost on page 100. Keep going people!

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:05 pm

I want to see the map finished and put up for play just like everyone else.

I think qwerts design skills have gotten better over the months since that title was decided on, not in the two weeks it had been on vacation. The suggestion was reasonably refuted though and I didn't make any further point of it. Why do you continue to try and stir things up hulmey?

I stand by the rest of my points though and anybody who thinks I have any ill feelings towards qwert or I am particularly harsh on qwert, then I am afraid you are mistaken. As part of my new C.A. role, I am making more of an effort to have a detailed look at each map in development. Just recently I had plenty of suggestions in the San Francisco and Mongol Empire threads. Neither cartographer of those maps kicked up a fuss and abandoned their maps.

Just so it's clear, I'll go over the points that needed some attention again.

Isthmus of Perekop
I got no response to this, but if it was shortened, it would be a 10 second job.

Opacity of Borders
Again, I got no response. Again a 10 second job that would potentially solve the problem. All I wanted to see was an example.

Stalingrad Army Colour
It doesn't matter whether I mention this on the first page or last one, it's still something to consider. A pretty simple request that is another 10 second job.

Army Shadows
Have been discussed many times and there's two simple solutions. Like Stalingrad Army, take 10 seconds to slightly change the colour of Rundstedt Army or take the possibly longer approach and slightly change the colour of the army shadows.

Legend
Not a big issue, but a pretty simple request to see the impact of some shadows. It doesn't matter if it was done before, the map had been in development and it changed along the way. Something that was decided against on an older version of the map may be more suitable on the latest version.

Sea Labels
I think the map looked better without them. Simple.

Signature
I asked a very simple question and coped verbal abuse in return. I made no kind of suggestion that the text and images should be removed, I just wanted to know what they were and what they represented.

Now, they were all my major concerns and things I would've liked to seen worked on or at least discussed. This map was so close to Final Forge / Quenching but qwert threw it all away over some friendly suggestions. Full responsibility for this maps current status lie with qwert, nobody else.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:33 pm

It was Final Forged before and that was removed!!

As someone suggested (not juts me) it was then harsh taking the Final Forge away from Qwert....

Final forge as has been stated is a matter of mind but it also a comfort zone to some map maokers that they are nearly there..

I am now stirring any thing Keyogi im just continuing on the lines that somone had started...

Or would you rather i say nothing..I think it would be a boring and quiet world if everyone thought like you....Different minds and ideas are a good thing and so is Freedom of speech!

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:37 pm

It was taken from Final Forge because Qwert put it on Vacation, and you lose it when you put it on Vacation I think.

So it was Qwert's fault for putting it on Vacation cause he couldn't handle what people were suggesting.