Age of Merchants - [Quenched]

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:48 pm

i'm putting this map on a small vacation until i get a license for fireworks. it has expired.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:27 am

this worked out sooner than i expected.
i toyed around with the image. more of an old map feeling i hope.
v63

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:31 am

if anyone thinks mibi's idea is good i'll implement that.
i'll wait for more feedback.

and yes mibi is right the learning curve is the problem here

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:58 am

love the old map, nice improvement.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:01 pm

mibi wrote:love the old map, nice improvement.

thanks. it improves the graphics but the main problem with the learning curve still remains

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:04 pm

DiM wrote:
mibi wrote:love the old map, nice improvement.
thanks. it improves the graphics but the main problem with the learning curve still remains

what's the learning curve?

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:11 pm

fireedud wrote:
DiM wrote:
mibi wrote:love the old map, nice improvement.
thanks. it improves the graphics but the main problem with the learning curve still remains
what's the learning curve?

explanation wrote:

What the above graph shows, is that the more effort you put into learning the rules, the better your understanding of the rules will be. What you are aiming for as a player, is total understanding of the rules. As you can see in the graph, it takes quite a bit of effort to understand the rules completely. So, this is what we call a steep learning curve. The next graph shows a shallow learning curve.

In general, a shallow learning curve is better than a steep one, especially with casual games. Of course, there are players who are looking for a challenge, but it’s usually a good decision to make playing the game the challenge and not learning the game.

this map apparently has a steep learning curve meaning most people will not play this map because they don't have the willpower to put some effort in understanding the rules. while others will play it especially for this challenge.
i personally don't think this map has a steep learning curve, i think it's somewhere in the middle. i'm sure things could be much more difficult but also much more simpler. as i usually like a challenge i designed this map for my own taste, but since the foundry works for the whole community the goal is to try and make this learning curve a bit more shallow so that everybody will understand it.

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:14 pm

OHHH!!!!

now I get it, thx

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:17 pm

fireedud wrote:OHHH!!!! now I get it, thx

you're welcome, now gimme some feedback on the map

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:59 pm

new poll

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:07 pm

Ok...Considering your learning curve, I made it my life's purpose as to understand how the bonuses work. Correct me on anything I am wrong, as I will try to define what I understood.

The pirate cove + one or more treasures= +1.

Holding 2 main ressources + the product = +3.

Holding 2 main ressources + the product + the market = +5.

Holding all those, + 2 harbours = 7.

..Did I humiliated myself on this?

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:27 pm

freezie wrote:Ok...Considering your learning curve, I made it my life's purpose as to understand how the bonuses work. Correct me on anything I am wrong, as I will try to define what I understood.

The pirate cove + one or more treasures= +1.

if you own pirate cove each treasure spot gives you +1. so:
pirate cove + 1 treasure = 1
...
pirate cove + 5 treasures = 5

freezie wrote:Holding 2 main ressources + the product = +3.

if they are on the same land mass yes

freezie wrote:Holding 2 main ressources + the product + the market = +5.

if they are on the same land mass yes

freezie wrote:Holding all those, + 2 harbours = 7.

only products can be transported via harbours. resources can't.
so let's say you have rum on a continent and a market on anther and you also have 2 harbours that connect those continents you get +2 for taking the product to a market and another +2 because that market is on another continent.

freezie wrote:..Did I humiliated myself on this?

not at all. you understood more than most people

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:34 pm

So basicly...You could have 2 ressources + the product on the same continent, have 2 harbors, getting the product to a market on another continent, and gain a total of 9 armies for doing so?

So having the market on the first continent would be absolutly useless, beside having it as a back-up if someone take one of your harbor or the other market?

Quite complicated, have fun doing the XML for that. But the concept is quite interesting.

Doing a map like that, I would say your avatar doesn't look like you. Your avatar doesn't seem smart. But of course, we should never rely on the appearance. So yes your avatar's ok

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:42 pm

freezie wrote:So basicly...You could have 2 ressources + the product on the same continent, have 2 harbors, getting the product to a market on another continent, and gain a total of 9 armies for doing so?

exactly. 9 armies but you have to consider the fact that you have to protect all those territories. plus if somebody takes away your product teritory you lose all the bonus. put all your troops to protect the product and someone might take away your market or a resources. sound strategy is needed.

freezie wrote: So having the market on the first continent would be absolutly useless, beside having it as a back-up if someone take one of your harbor or the other market?

nope having a market on the first continent is not useless because you can take a product to more markets.

freezie wrote: Quite complicated, have fun doing the XML for that. But the concept is quite interesting.

6800+ lines of code. huge help from yeti_c on the xml.

freezie wrote: Doing a map like that, I would say your avatar doesn't look like you. Your avatar doesn't seem smart. But of course, we should never rely on the appearance. So yes your avatar's ok

looking like a braindead zomebie has several advantages. don't know what they are cause i'm brainded but i'm sure there are some

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:48 pm

Ok so having all markets and all harbors ( basicly impossible unless your opponents ARE braindead zombies ) and a single ressource would:

+2 bonus for bringing the product to the market on the same continent.

+4
+4
+4
+4
+4

bringing it to every other markets on the map?

Guess I ask too many questions. Since I basicly understand now anyway.

The last sentence: Good job on making that map, quite something. Count me to play it as it comes out

( If my 4 spots aren't taken...unless I have prem by that time...)

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:06 pm

freezie wrote:Ok so having all markets and all harbors ( basicly impossible unless your opponents ARE braindead zombies ) and a single ressource would:

+2 bonus for bringing the product to the market on the same continent.

+4
+4
+4
+4
+4

bringing it to every other markets on the map?

exactly. but if you manage to get this far you are the winner anyway

i played on this map with my wife and some friends and there are different strategies in appraching this game.

you can either take the classic approach and conquer whole continents, you can concentrate on different resoures and transport them across the map. as in your example above, or you can try and take only the treasures and piarate cove.

i like the bonus system because it allows very differen styles of play.

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:08 pm

DiM wrote:
i like the bonus system because it allows very differen styles of play.

Very true. As far as I know, few maps offer more than 10 ways to play the map, and them beeing all equal. Again good job, and continue on it. Harder...nah..wait...HARDER.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:17 pm

freezie wrote:
DiM wrote:
i like the bonus system because it allows very differen styles of play.
Very true. As far as I know, few maps offer more than 10 ways to play the map, and them beeing all equal. Again good job, and continue on it. Harder...nah..wait...HARDER.

i will continue but the problem is many people don't quite get the bonuses

i colud simplify the system but the flavour of the map will be somewhat lost. for example having only products and markets and ditching the resoures, would probably make things a lot easier to understand. but i really like having a complete economic chain (resource -> factory/product -> market).

or i could take out one economic chain out of the current 2.

i don't know.

actually i think the real problem for people is the transportation across water thing. even though i explained how the harbours work, mst people have difficulties with that. but i don't want to remove it because i think there should be a clear difference between transporting a product to a local market or a foreign market. i want people to feel like real merchants that battle for each business oportunity and take advantage of the pirates present on this map.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:19 pm

If you guys can't do it I want in on the xml creation.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:25 pm

Coleman wrote:If you guys can't do it I want in on the xml creation.

the xml is almost done. yeti_c has just a few more modifications to do to the bonus system because of some changes i made to the map. and i have to modify some coordinates. but it is 99% done.

6800+ lines

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:27 pm

DiM wrote:
Coleman wrote:If you guys can't do it I want in on the xml creation.
the xml is almost done. yeti_c has just a few more modifications to do to the bonus system because of some changes i made to the map. and i have to modify some coordinates. but it is 99% done.

6800+ lines

Ugh, that would have been fun. Oh well.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:37 pm

Coleman wrote:
DiM wrote:
Coleman wrote:If you guys can't do it I want in on the xml creation.
the xml is almost done. yeti_c has just a few more modifications to do to the bonus system because of some changes i made to the map. and i have to modify some coordinates. but it is 99% done.

6800+ lines
Ugh, that would have been fun. Oh well.

freezie · Post by **freezie** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:25 pm

DiM wrote:
freezie wrote:
DiM wrote:
i like the bonus system because it allows very differen styles of play.
Very true. As far as I know, few maps offer more than 10 ways to play the map, and them beeing all equal. Again good job, and continue on it. Harder...nah..wait...HARDER.
i will continue but the problem is many people don't quite get the bonuses

i colud simplify the system but the flavour of the map will be somewhat lost. for example having only products and markets and ditching the resoures, would probably make things a lot easier to understand. but i really like having a complete economic chain (resource -> factory/product -> market).

or i could take out one economic chain out of the current 2.

i don't know.

actually i think the real problem for people is the transportation across water thing. even though i explained how the harbours work, mst people have difficulties with that. but i don't want to remove it because i think there should be a clear difference between transporting a product to a local market or a foreign market. i want people to feel like real merchants that battle for each business oportunity and take advantage of the pirates present on this map.

I really like the map as it is, if people take a closer look, it's not THAT hard to understand. Of course, the wording could be made clearer, but that would cloag up the map...

Only time will tell...

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:27 pm

freezie wrote:
DiM wrote:
freezie wrote:
DiM wrote:
i like the bonus system because it allows very differen styles of play.
Very true. As far as I know, few maps offer more than 10 ways to play the map, and them beeing all equal. Again good job, and continue on it. Harder...nah..wait...HARDER.
i will continue but the problem is many people don't quite get the bonuses

i colud simplify the system but the flavour of the map will be somewhat lost. for example having only products and markets and ditching the resoures, would probably make things a lot easier to understand. but i really like having a complete economic chain (resource -> factory/product -> market).

or i could take out one economic chain out of the current 2.

i don't know.

actually i think the real problem for people is the transportation across water thing. even though i explained how the harbours work, mst people have difficulties with that. but i don't want to remove it because i think there should be a clear difference between transporting a product to a local market or a foreign market. i want people to feel like real merchants that battle for each business oportunity and take advantage of the pirates present on this map.

I really like the map as it is, if people take a closer look, it's not THAT hard to understand. Of course, the wording could be made clearer, but that would cloag up the map...

Only time will tell...

english is not my native language so maybe some of my explanations are confusing. if anybody has a better suggestions i'd be more than happy to implement it.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:27 pm

DiM wrote: i played on this map with my wife and some friends and there are different strategies in appraching this game.

how do you play this map, or where?

also, my gameplay suggestions are on point! reconsider them.