WWII - Eastern Front-statistic page 1 [Quenched]5000 finish

Ninja-Town · Post by **Ninja-Town** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:20 am

We have to think for the best intrest of CC... and I think its to let this map out for play! If there are serious problems with the map, let the people decide... Qwert can always update the map in the future if such a need is required.

qeee1 · Post by **qeee1** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 am

Isthmus of Perekop
I got no response to this, but if it was shortened, it would be a 10 second job.

As stated you can change the xml to reflect this. I think it's fine the way it is, I guess it should be left up to the authors discretion whether to rename it on the map, or just abbreviate the xml.

Opacity of Borders
Again, I got no response. Again a 10 second job that would potentially solve the problem. All I wanted to see was an example.

The borders looked pretty fine jagged, they looked fine blurred. What exactly is the problem with them, aside from saying "they don't look quite right"

Stalingrad Army Colour
It doesn't matter whether I mention this on the first page or last one, it's still something to consider. A pretty simple request that is another 10 second job.

Ok, well it wasn't so much the fact that you only pointed it out now, as the way you said it really upset you or something. I mean obviously it's not a big issue if you only noticed it now.

That said, maybe you have been living under a rock all this time, so your suggestion is valid. Well I disagree, I don't think it's an issue anyway, the colours are fine.

Army Shadows
Have been discussed many times and there's two simple solutions. Like Stalingrad Army, take 10 seconds to slightly change the colour of Rundstedt Army or take the possibly longer approach and slightly change the colour of the army shadows.

Was agreed upon they were fine the way they were by the majority.

Legend
Not a big issue, but a pretty simple request to see the impact of some shadows. It doesn't matter if it was done before, the map had been in development and it changed along the way. Something that was decided against on an older version of the map may be more suitable on the latest version.

I don't think that map hasn't changed that majorly so as to make a difference between them looking good now and not looking good then.

Sea Labels
I think the map looked better without them. Simple.

Eh, I dunno, if it makes the map look bad they should be taken away, if it makes it look good they should stay, I'm not sure which I prefered.

Signature
I asked a very simple question and coped verbal abuse in return. I made no kind of suggestion that the text and images should be removed, I just wanted to know what they were and what they represented.

ok, well whatever he explained they had some meaning to him so they're fine, not an issue now.

Now, they were all my major concerns and things I would've liked to seen worked on or at least discussed. This map was so close to Final Forge / Quenching but qwert threw it all away over some friendly suggestions. Full responsibility for this maps current status lie with qwert, nobody else.

It's not 100% qwerts fault, I think... for example taking away final forge, what was that about? Humley argued the case there pretty well. The attitude seems to be one of zero tolerence, and endless requests, which isn't conducive to map making.

As for the bonuses, well I'll have to see the map again before I can comment, but if it was discussed a length there's probably a reason the bonuses are the way they are. For example, perhaps there's easier access to another continent from the first one. Or perhaps the different areas that can attack the continent are all around one area instead of spread out. Or perhaps it was due to the numbers of territories in each continent, or to create/offset balance. such as with the classic map, europe has 4 borders, compared to 3 for america but america has more territories and hence the same bonus.

To conclude, the two issues which could be looked at are:

1. Bonuses
2. sea names

everything else seems fine.

Hitmanblood · Post by **Hitmanblood** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:04 am

I think that poll results speak for itself. Its more then twice votes for yes and I cannot see reason why do you torture qwert any longer.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:37 am

Okay so put the map back on qwert and let's at least discuss the bonuses. That's not a major change. I know you will read this post as you still log into the foundry several times a day so I am expecting a response from you because I still want to play this map someday.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:51 pm

I got an idea...Lets start a PETITION for the whole of Conquer Club and reach out to the players who will play this map as well...Anybody wishing to help me in this petition PM me pls....

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:54 pm

unfortuantly if we did this for nearly every map then it would get in however in 6 months time many people would be dissapointed that a few changes that takes a maximum of 15 minutes to do were not done.

This would also be giving qwert special treatment, no other map maker gets this done, we would almost be rewarding qwert for throwing a tantrum.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:59 pm

what reward is qwert actually getting boberz...You sending him a cheque???

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:03 pm

to see his proud work on cc that is something any map maker would enjoy and his map should not achieve this without at least trying the suggestions that do not have reasons behind them such as the bonuses and the sea names

Ninja-Town · Post by **Ninja-Town** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:05 pm

Oh please... after he fixes those two you know for a FACT that they will find one more thing wrong... and then one more thing after that... etc.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:17 pm

i agree with you ninja on this one...

Bonuses where actually agreed on by the majority for goodness sakes..It was put to a vote!!

alster · Post by **alster** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:18 pm

boberz wrote:unfortuantly if we did this for nearly every map then it would get in however in 6 months time many people would be dissapointed that a few changes that takes a maximum of 15 minutes to do were not done.

This would also be giving qwert special treatment, no other map maker gets this done, we would almost be rewarding qwert for throwing a tantrum.

I see that you take for granted that the changes should be made. I respectfully disagree.

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:39 pm

fair enough i didnt know it had been put to a vote but i know there has been no vote for the sea names he just put them in and loads of people have disagreed with that. Yes many people will find new faults, untill there are no new faults to be found, as it is i would be disaponted to see this map on c because of the amount of work it has been through.

SUrely you do not want a map to get through based on the fact a map maker does not want to make more changes, if he wants to abandon it that is fine but we also have a right to say what we think can be improved abd if enough people want a change then surely it has to be changed.

People have to remember the new maps represent the map make, the map foundry and ultimately the website as a whole when they are published so it is right that they go through a stringent procedure

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:46 pm

Fair enough boberz but people where suggesting things that had been settled pages ago and also thingas that had been voted on...Mainly as they are too lazy to follow the whole thread but are quick to throw in there 2 pence worth!!

On top of that Qwert lost his final forge status for having the map on vaction for only 2 weeks...Its quite clear to the majority of people that qwert is being vindiacted against

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:57 pm

i think most of you can appreciate i HAVE followed the thread and just didnt notice things earlier or they werent as bad, or (seeing as this is a long thread) merely forgot it had been discussed. Also when in final forge which i partially think it should be, everything will be mentioned again anyway just to make sure, that is (whether you agree or not) how the foundry works at the moment.

Ninja-Town · Post by **Ninja-Town** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:05 pm

SUrely you do not want a map to get through based on the fact a map maker does not want to make more changes,

But this isn't what is happening... its a minority of the players here that are keeping this from being played, because they don't like the visuals as much as say king of the mountains.... Well I say that the majority really doesn't care about the jagged rivers, or the color of stalingrad's army. If you asked for my oppinion this map looks better than 99% of the maps availible to us. And even better than some that are in final forge at the moment...

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:09 pm

but if mostpeople dont care whether its done or not and a few really want it to be done then why does 15 minutes work take sooooo long

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:16 pm

i like the colour of stalingrad so why should it be changed for one or two people??

And your right about 15 mins not taking sooooooo long but when people keep telling you change this change that when its already been done its very irritating and annoying...

cheguevarra · Post by **cheguevarra** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:18 pm

SUrely you do not want a map to get through based on the fact a map maker does not want to make more changes,

It's not that he doesn't want to make more changes. He doesn't want to TRY them.. there is a big difference.

Why don't you look at threads with other maps that have been and will be quenched. You will see that the ideas do cease as the many that come in late have already been decided upon after much discussion between forum members and the map creator. If someone has an idea that could improve a map, WHY WOULDN'T A DESIGNER WANT TO TRY IT? Don't we hold ourselves to high expectations when it comes to our maps? or do we just have an "it's good enough" attitude. I'd like to think it's the first one. Sure, it's good enough to play, but there are some OBVIOUS improvements that could be made that take little effort. Yet, qwerts pride prevents him from working with others and his hesitation to fix certain things creates a scenario in which the issues of the map add up and make it look like people are picking on him.. People are trying to help him and only want this place to get better and his attitude in response to those people sucks.

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:20 pm

then it wont because people actually like it (me included) but there are things like sea names that nobody is actually in support of people either dont care or really want. Why should th dont care attitude feature at all (unless it is some thing time consuming). Th eonly time consuming thing on this thread is qwerts polls

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:22 pm

i think you should try reading the whole thread and understaning it before you comment....

And also try making your own map!!! Thats why im trying to create my own map to get a feel for the whole thing

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:30 pm

i agree with everyhting cheguvarra said, in principle. Can somebody tell me why qwert does not want to try these suggestions, apart form the ones that were decided earlier i understand that this is a valid reason.

Before you say it I HAVE DEFINATELY READ THE WHOLE THREAD AND HAVE BEEN COMMENTING FO A LOOONNNGGG TIME

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:34 pm

my first post was on page 7 and believe it or not i asked for the title to be black and plain, so atleast my views are consistent

qeee1 · Post by **qeee1** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:34 pm

cheguevarra wrote:
SUrely you do not want a map to get through based on the fact a map maker does not want to make more changes,

It's not that he doesn't want to make more changes. He doesn't want to TRY them.. there is a big difference.

Why don't you look at threads with other maps that have been and will be quenched. You will see that the ideas do cease as the many that come in late have already been decided upon after much discussion between forum members and the map creator. If someone has an idea that could improve a map, WHY WOULDN'T A DESIGNER WANT TO TRY IT? Don't we hold ourselves to high expectations when it comes to our maps? or do we just have an "it's good enough" attitude. I'd like to think it's the first one. Sure, it's good enough to play, but there are some OBVIOUS improvements that could be made that take little effort. Yet, qwerts pride prevents him from working with others and his hesitation to fix certain things creates a scenario in which the issues of the map add up and make it look like people are picking on him.. People are trying to help him and only want this place to get better and his attitude in response to those people sucks.

boberz wrote:i agree with everyhting cheguvarra said, in principle. Can somebody tell me why qwert does not want to try these suggestions, apart form the ones that were decided earlier i understand that this is a valid reason.

Before you say it I HAVE DEFINATELY READ THE WHOLE THREAD AND HAVE BEEN COMMENTING FO A LOOONNNGGG TIME

what suggestions are you talking about? Yes qwert has always been reluctant to change the map from the start, and that's his fault, but we've reached the stage where he's implemented 90% of the suggestions made.

Aside from the seas what suggestions haven't been discussed several times?

boberz · Post by **boberz** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:38 pm

i believe the opacity of the lines could be looked at (since the major upheavel in the boundries has changed the dynamics of this) whilst i myself do not see it as an issue i understand how it could be for some people and think 5 minutes work is worth this, and the sea names as you mentioned.

AS you have pointed out this is very little work all the more reason to make the few changes there are.

Personally i still wish the bonusses and the title to be changfed but understand why they are not so am not complaining

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:43 pm

i have it from a good source that qwert is willing to change the bonuses and remove the sea names....But he fears that certain people will keep raizing petty issues with his map!!