Juan_Bottom wrote:
At 20 weeks a fetus will pull away from abortive instruments. It's a move, interpreted by many to be in self-defense.
and yet, most scientists acknowledge that this was not truly a "fear" response at all, just movement of fluids.
At any rate, 20 weeks is past the point of at will abortion. At that point, there has to be a serious reason to have one (health of the mother, something wrong with the child, etc.). Now, I DO agree that some of those "serious reasons" are too mild. However, that is soething that can be changed without flatly outlawing abortion or declaring as this bill would that life begins at conception.
JACKSON, Miss. -- Mississippi voters Tuesday defeated a ballot initiative that would've declared life begins at fertilization, a proposal that supporters sought in the Bible Belt state as a way to prompt a legal challenge to abortion rights nationwide.
The so-called "personhood" initiative was rejected by more than 55 percent of voters, falling far short of the threshold needed for it to be enacted. If it had passed, it was virtually assured of drawing legal challenges because it conflicts with the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that established a legal right to abortion. Supporters of the initiative wanted to provoke a lawsuit to challenge the landmark ruling.
The measure divided the medical and religious communities and caused some of the most ardent abortion opponents, including Republican Gov. Haley Barbour, to waver with their support.
Opponents said the measure would have made birth control, such as the morning-after pill or the intrauterine device, illegal. More specifically, the ballot measure called for abortion to be prohibited "from the moment of fertilization" – wording that opponents suggested would have deterred physicians from performing in vitro fertilization because they would fear criminal charges if an embryo doesn't survive.
Turns out that phrasing things in the most extreme way possible without thought to the practical implications of your rhetoric is kind of a bad idea.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
The Fire Knight wrote:Logically embryos have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human beings. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where humans must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Logically all human cells have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human being. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where cancer must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Except that YOU get to choose how your own cells are treated. You do NOT get to choose what happens to the cells of another being. Cancer cells are mutations on human cells, not a different human.
The Fire Knight wrote:Logically embryos have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human beings. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where humans must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Logically all human cells have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human being. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where cancer must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Except that YOU get to choose how your own cells are treated. You do NOT get to choose what happens to the cells of another being. Cancer cells are mutations on human cells, not a different human.
Incorrect, obviously, see "Dust". Rephrase and come back with an argument that can't be disproven by a broom.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
The Fire Knight wrote:Logically embryos have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human beings. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where humans must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Logically all human cells have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human being. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where cancer must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Except that YOU get to choose how your own cells are treated. You do NOT get to choose what happens to the cells of another being. Cancer cells are mutations on human cells, not a different human.
Incorrect, obviously, see "Dust". Rephrase and come back with an argument that can't be disproven by a broom.
Except that your broom didn't actually do the work to disprove it.
The Fire Knight wrote:Logically embryos have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human beings. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where humans must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Logically all human cells have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human being. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where cancer must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Except that YOU get to choose how your own cells are treated. You do NOT get to choose what happens to the cells of another being. Cancer cells are mutations on human cells, not a different human.
Incorrect, obviously, see "Dust". Rephrase and come back with an argument that can't be disproven by a broom.
Except that your broom didn't actually do the work to disprove it.
Typical NRA supporter, "Brooms don't sweep up your skin cells, Mexicans who are stealing our jobs sweep up our skin cells".
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
Symmetry wrote:
Typical NRA supporter, "Brooms don't sweep up your skin cells, Mexicans who are stealing our jobs sweep up our skin cells".
Come on Symmetry. You are above that. Being a 2nd amendment supporter, or NRA supporter doesn't make you a racist.
I don't want to debate this topic; it won't change anyone's mind about the subject.
I find it interesting that the original article said there was a lot of support for this bill and that it might win. Yet, the results now show a lot less support. I wish polls would be more accurate.
Symmetry wrote:
Typical NRA supporter, "Brooms don't sweep up your skin cells, Mexicans who are stealing our jobs sweep up our skin cells".
Come on Symmetry. You are above that. Being a 2nd amendment supporter, or NRA supporter doesn't make you a racist.
I don't want to debate this topic; it won't change anyone's mind about the subject.
I find it interesting that the original article said there was a lot of support for this bill and that it might win. Yet, the results now show a lot less support. I wish polls would be more accurate.
'Twas intended as a joke m'lord, a watcha callit- a parody of a ridiculous point. Apologies to all who found it offensive, it was not meant to be.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
The Fire Knight wrote:Logically embryos have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human beings. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where humans must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Logically all human cells have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human being. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where cancer must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Except that YOU get to choose how your own cells are treated. You do NOT get to choose what happens to the cells of another being. Cancer cells are mutations on human cells, not a different human.
parents do get to decide things regarding their children. Since parents are the ones who are both emotionally, physically and financially responsible for their children, what right do you have to tell a parent that their child is better off alive than dead, without even knowing the details... OR even to tell a mother she cannot have a dead child surgically removed or choose to save her life and the ability to have future children instead of pursuing a flighty dream, which IS what a young fetus represents.. a dream of a healthy child, not a living, healthy child.
Symmetry wrote:
Typical NRA supporter, "Brooms don't sweep up your skin cells, Mexicans who are stealing our jobs sweep up our skin cells".
Come on Symmetry. You are above that. Being a 2nd amendment supporter, or NRA supporter doesn't make you a racist.
I don't want to debate this topic; it won't change anyone's mind about the subject.
I find it interesting that the original article said there was a lot of support for this bill and that it might win. Yet, the results now show a lot less support. I wish polls would be more accurate.
'Twas intended as a joke m'lord, a watcha callit- a parody of a ridiculous point. Apologies to all who found it offensive, it was not meant to be.
Okay. Can you put like a sarcastic disclaimer? For those of us who can't tell your tone through the text.
I have a hard time telling when someone is joking on the net. I should have known you were joking though, seeing as you don't normally say stuff like that, but that's why I said, " You are above that." Shutting my mouth now.
Symmetry wrote:
Typical NRA supporter, "Brooms don't sweep up your skin cells, Mexicans who are stealing our jobs sweep up our skin cells".
Come on Symmetry. You are above that. Being a 2nd amendment supporter, or NRA supporter doesn't make you a racist.
I don't want to debate this topic; it won't change anyone's mind about the subject.
I find it interesting that the original article said there was a lot of support for this bill and that it might win. Yet, the results now show a lot less support. I wish polls would be more accurate.
'Twas intended as a joke m'lord, a watcha callit- a parody of a ridiculous point. Apologies to all who found it offensive, it was not meant to be.
Okay. Can you put like a sarcastic disclaimer? For those of us who can't tell your tone through the text.
I have a hard time telling when someone is joking on the net. I should have known you were joking though, seeing as you don't normally say stuff like that, but that's why I said, " You are above that." Shutting my mouth now.
Not really going to happen. I have an odd sense of humour at the best of times, when even posters who are familiar with my sense of humour call me out on pushing things too far, then sarcasm disclaimers would have been unnecessary anyway- I made a bad joke. Pointing out that it was a joke is a poor excuse for an apology. Best option, in my book, explain your thinking, and apologise.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
The Fire Knight wrote:Logically embryos have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human beings. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where humans must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Logically all human cells have all the genetic information in them to form every trait of the human being. Logically when something turns from doing nothing to growing rapidly it is alive. Logically this is the point where cancer must get rights, otherwise all of our rights are in danger do to arbitrary limitations.
Except that YOU get to choose how your own cells are treated. You do NOT get to choose what happens to the cells of another being. Cancer cells are mutations on human cells, not a different human.
I'll reply with less ass-holishness this time, and maybe we'll get back on track.
I disagree, you do not get to choose how your cells are treated. Aside from the flippant remarks about skin cells and dust, you have little control over your sperm cells once they impregnate a woman.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
"The evil dark side that exists in this world is taking hold. And they’re saying, what we want you to be able to do is continue to extinguish innocent life. You see, if we could do that, Satan wins," - Mississippi Lieutenant Governor Phil Bryant, on the fight over the state's proposed personhood amendment, which failed last night.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
Symmetry wrote:"The evil dark side that exists in this world is taking hold. And they’re saying, what we want you to be able to do is continue to extinguish innocent life. You see, if we could do that, Satan wins," - Mississippi Lieutenant Governor Phil Bryant, on the fight over the state's proposed personhood amendment, which failed last night.
His syntax is a mite confusing, possibly one might go so far as to say it is a tad confusing. Who are the "they" in the second sentence? If he's referring to "the evil dark side" from the first sentence the correct term would be "it". Does the third sentence belong to what the undefined "they" are saying or is it a new statement?
Questions abound.
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
All right guys... it was cool to argue with ya'll for a while there. But seeing as no one will discuss with me the site's I linked, and no one has any decent arguments against what I have to say (except for that cancer argument... trollololololololololololol) it is time for me to return to becoming the Conqueror. You are obviously too entrenched in your beliefs for me to argue you out of them over the internet. Besides periodic checks, and responding to legitimate arguments, I will see ya'll at the Supreme Court... one day. We will never stop fighting for this.
The Fire Knight wrote:All right guys... it was cool to argue with ya'll for a while there. But seeing as no one will discuss with me the site's I linked, and no one has any decent arguments against what I have to say (except for that cancer argument... trollololololololololololol) it is time for me to return to becoming the Conqueror. You are obviously too entrenched in your beliefs for me to argue you out of them over the internet. Besides periodic checks, and responding to legitimate arguments, I will see ya'll at the Supreme Court... one day. We will never stop fighting for this.
TFK
Who is "we?" What group of people so ardently supports the right to life of a blob of cells in a women's uterus? Admit it, religion is your main motivator here. It's easy to pick a side on the issue if your holy book tells you what to think. It's harder to make a rational argument about ethics.
The Fire Knight wrote:You are obviously too entrenched in your beliefs for me to argue you out of them over the internet.
Did you actually expect that you would be able to convince someone that your opinions are correct?
A little hint: try some basic human decency. I don't think there's anyone who's ever had to commit an abortion who's been happy about it. It's a pretty traumatic experience for anyone, no matter what reasons are behind the decision (and make no mistake: no one in this world is qualified to judge whether someone else's reasons are valid or not) and you coming out and accusing those people of "murder" is not a very decent thing to do.
