PLAYER57832 wrote:natty_dread wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:
Also, you have to give girls the knowledge that they are important for more than just being future moms. Its ironic, but I blame the churches for some of this. I can remember being a single professional woman and basically having no real "place". I mean, a single woman is either a "spinster" or a "slut".
This might be a topic for another thread, but in a similar vein, you have to give boys the knowledge that they are important for more than just being "providers", and have the right to be valued for more than their success or career or ability to bring a fat paycheck. A single man who doesn't have a well-paying career, a man who doesn't fit in the traditional model of a "real man" that provides for his family, is called a "sissy" or "fag" or similar.
I don't se that as nearly as negative, but also not as true as the female stereotypes.
That's where you are wrong...
When you concentrate on only correcting the stereotypes that are oppressive to one part of the population (ie. female, but not male) then you are effectively only addressing part of the problem, and possibly making other parts of it worse.
See, whenever you find a stereotype about women, there's always a corresponding stereotype about men - if you think about it... the logical corollary to "women never like sports" is "all men like sports", for example. "Women should not wear pants" translates to "Men should not wear skirts". "Women should stay home and tend to the kids" translates to "Men should stay at work and not care about their families". And so on.
Now I'm not saying it's equal in all cases, in many cases the female stereotype is more common/harmful than the male one... but there are also cases where it is the other way around.
I don't believe that this is true anywhere near as much as it used to be.. or as true as the prejudice that still remains for women.
Really? Then you've been living under a rock.
If you're not a traditionally masculine man, a "real man" that likes all of the things men are "supposed" to like... god forbid if you're what is considered to be a "feminine" man, even if you're 100% heterosexual, you get labeled as "gay" or at the very least a "sissy"... look at any instances of school bullying, where the victim is bullied because he doesn't conform to the standards of "masculinity" enforced by the society. Look at any instances where teens of sexual minorities commit suicides or are assaulted because they act too feminine.
But the main point I was making is that men are expected to succeed. Just like women are valued by their outside appearance, men are valued by their ability to be succesful in their careers. Why do you think all these status symbols are marketed primarily towards men? It's because society expects men to show their "worth" by showing off their success.
It's very much a real problem, and by denying it, you are not doing any favours to men OR women. Harmful stereotypes are harmful to both genders, whether they are stereotypes about women or men (and as said, they always come in pairs).
Most men ARE fathers. I see the change in childcare. It used to be unheard of for a boy to play with dolls, play cooking, etc. Now, its pretty common. Why? Because dad carries baby, cooks dinner, etc right along with mom.
Granted, progress has been made, but then again you could say that there's no problem with female discrimination either, since women can vote now and they couldn't do that 100 years ago...
And I don't think it's nearly as accepted as you seem to think. Men are still expected to be the "provider" of the family, the one who works, and it's much harder for men to justify the need for parental leave to their boss. Just like women are expected to be the one who stays home, and it's harder for women to get promotions to leadership positions. It's expected that men should aspire to succeed on their careers, and if you don't, you're treated as a less of a man for that.
The anacronism, even in a small conservative community like mine, are those who refuse to change diapers, etc. You still hear jokes about it, but its pretty obviously just that.. joking. Guys do seem to like to poke at each other in fun much more than women. But, you are likely to hear cracks about someone's poor fishing or baseball skills as their poor cooking skills.
See, you're just proving my point here. Here you're telling me how "guys" are more likely to poke fun at each other... why is that? Maybe it's because you have some kind of stereotypical image of "guys"? And the second part is even more obvious: if you don't have good skills in traditionally "manly" hobbies, like fishing or baseball, you get made fun of... even if it's in joking terms, the implication is still there - you're less of a man because you're bad at "manly" things.
What has not changed enough is the idea that a man is more of a "man" becuase he simply deposites a lot of sperm in a lot of women, in some communities/classes, etc.
That is also true. The same also applies to women, reversed: you're a dirty slut if you "allow" lots of men to deposit their sperm in you.
It's important to note that all these double standards are harmful to both men and women: women get treated as if they don't enjoy sex, as if women are somehow "sullied" by it, and female sexuality is in this way marginalized... while men get treated as if their sexuality is somehow inherently degrading, that simply by having sex with someone, the partner of a man gets "dirtied"...
I'd say the biggest problem in this case would be the model of sexuality in which women trade sex for affection, and men only give affection to receive sex. It is harmful to both men and women, as it implies that women don't enjoy sex, but also that men are unemotional beings that don't care about affection.
Another thing to point out is that men who are raped are much less likely to be taken seriously than women who are raped. Yes, women probably get raped more often outside of prison, and yes, there's a lot of mentality that places blame on the victim in the case of women, but that is also even worse for men, especially when men are raped by women: men are, by definition, supposed to always be ready for sex, and men are expected to be able to overpower women, so there are still many people who don't even
believe men can be raped by women...
One that has not changed is that a divorced father who spends eons of time with his kids, but may miss a child support payment for legitimate reasons , who has to reduce payment because of a job loss, etc, is considered "negligent" while a father who just deposits his monthly check and cannot even be bothered to call his kids on the phone is "responsible" when it comes to the state.
This is also true. There's also still a bias against men when it comes to custody: a woman is still more likely to get the custody of the kids even if the man is the more responsible and involved parent.
