lets talk then vote.

[eddie2]

after the issue with the pack i think a general chat is needed about what other clans think these are my thoughts.

i think the present format is a little bit 1 sided as only war winners get punished. the rule at present can be used even if you do not break site rules. if a mod thinks you have crossed a line they can refuse medals. i feel this should be changed and instead of refusal of medal maybe issue a clan war participation ban escalating like forum and site bans. maybe something like.

1st offense =warning (clean sheet after 3 months good standing)
2nd offense = 1 month war ban. (6 months for clean sheet)
3rd offense = 2 month war ban. (9 months for clean sheet.)

then a continued equal amount of 2 months. what do you guys think.


ps lets keep this clean and try move forward.

[IcePack]

Yeah, otherwise if your losing (and have no shot @ any medals) you can just create havoc and not break site rules but egg the other clans on Til they've lost their medals (or some of them).

I don't know what the solution would be but as it is the rule is flawed.

[jordy2425]

Great idea eddie , I agree completely. In almost anything there is always a 3 step program.
That is unless the offence is severe enough to warrant imediate actions. Which should also be announced.

[eddie2]

Yeah, otherwise if your losing (and have no shot @ any medals) you can just create havoc and not break site rules but egg the other clans on Til they've lost their medals (or some of them).

I don't know what the solution would be but as it is the rule is flawed.

this is a good point with the way it stands.

ps dont know why im saying this because ill prob be the first to get banned

[lord voldemort]

if a mod thinks you have crossed a line of what you have posted then they have the site rules to go by...if they havent broken the rules then its fine.

There is no need to confuse this whole mess.
if you are baiting a clan into a response then that is covered in the community guidelines...if you are flaming and abusing them...then that is also covered...Its not difficult to understand

[jefjef]

if a mod thinks you have crossed a line of what you have posted then they have the site rules to go by...if they havent broken the rules then its fine.

There is no need to confuse this whole mess.
if you are baiting a clan into a response then that is covered in the community guidelines...if you are flaming and abusing them...then that is also covered...Its not difficult to understand

Exactly. If site rules are broken then whatever warnings due are issued. The loss of medal is additional incentive to not violate rules.

btw Ice: Creating havoc = baits, flames and trolling - all of which are rules violations.

[lynch5762]

if a mod thinks you have crossed a line of what you have posted then they have the site rules to go by...if they havent broken the rules then its fine.

There is no need to confuse this whole mess.
if you are baiting a clan into a response then that is covered in the community guidelines...if you are flaming and abusing them...then that is also covered...Its not difficult to understand

Exactly. If site rules are broken then whatever warnings due are issued. The loss of medal is additional incentive to not violate rules.

btw Ice: Creating havoc = baits, flames and trolling - all of which are rules violations.

oh boy... I guess this is round 2...

First of all.. It seems that so many are missing the point yet so many others are getting it. For example... (LV's quote "if a mod thinks you have a crossed a line....")

well there are two problems with that;
(1) --- what if the mod is wrong????
(2) --- how do you discipline the person or party that is out of line if they are losing the war (in other words for those that don't get it..... you cannot take or keep a medal from them??)

I agree with both of the last two posts that this is a simple problem, however, I also think that both of the last two posts are seriously missing the point!!

[jefjef]

if a mod thinks you have crossed a line of what you have posted then they have the site rules to go by...if they havent broken the rules then its fine.

There is no need to confuse this whole mess.
if you are baiting a clan into a response then that is covered in the community guidelines...if you are flaming and abusing them...then that is also covered...Its not difficult to understand

Exactly. If site rules are broken then whatever warnings due are issued. The loss of medal is additional incentive to not violate rules.

btw Ice: Creating havoc = baits, flames and trolling - all of which are rules violations.

oh boy... I guess this is round 2...

First of all.. It seems that so many are missing the point yet so many others are getting it. For example... (LV's quote "if a mod thinks you have a crossed a line....")

well there are two problems with that;
(1) --- what if the mod is wrong????
(2) --- how do you discipline the person or party that is out of line if they are losing the war (in other words for those that don't get it..... you cannot take or keep a medal from them??)

I agree with both of the last two posts that this is a simple problem, however, I also think that both of the last two posts are seriously missing the point!!

Oh boy.

It's simple.

Violate the rules - get warnings and bans. Win or Lose.

As for additional punishments war privs can also subject to loss.

BTW. Very few people feel the mod was wrong and he wasn't alone in the disciplinary actions taken. Anytime you feel you have been wronged you may file an E-Ticket and discuss with admin.

But all this is mute. Your opponents in that war didn't cross 35 pages of lines.

[lord voldemort]

The mod is not wrong...if you truly think that, then you take it to admin...otherwise what they says goes...If you still don't like it then suck it up. They are doing what they can by volunteering their time. The least we could all do is not be jerks
if the clan is losing and they are getting out of hand (in the confines of the community guidelines) then you warn them, ban them etc etc..
i was a mod for over a year its not hard.

[lynch5762]

if a mod thinks you have crossed a line of what you have posted then they have the site rules to go by...if they havent broken the rules then its fine.

There is no need to confuse this whole mess.
if you are baiting a clan into a response then that is covered in the community guidelines...if you are flaming and abusing them...then that is also covered...Its not difficult to understand

Exactly. If site rules are broken then whatever warnings due are issued. The loss of medal is additional incentive to not violate rules.

btw Ice: Creating havoc = baits, flames and trolling - all of which are rules violations.

oh boy... I guess this is round 2...

First of all.. It seems that so many are missing the point yet so many others are getting it. For example... (LV's quote "if a mod thinks you have a crossed a line....")

well there are two problems with that;
(1) --- what if the mod is wrong????
(2) --- how do you discipline the person or party that is out of line if they are losing the war (in other words for those that don't get it..... you cannot take or keep a medal from them??)

I agree with both of the last two posts that this is a simple problem, however, I also think that both of the last two posts are seriously missing the point!!

Oh boy.

It's simple.

Violate the rules - get warnings and bans. Win or Lose. (no problem... we received warnings and stopped... again this is not the issue though as we accept our punishment... I just think that many are concerned about the precedent that has been set)

As for additional punishments war privs can also subject to loss. (great... can you give me an example as to when this has been in forced?)

BTW. Very few people feel the mod was wrong and he wasn't alone in the disciplinary actions taken. Anytime you feel you have been wronged you may file an E-Ticket and discuss with admin. (Note; this is not a public opinion poll on whether or not the mod was wrong.... rather a query as to whether some further clarification should be required that is all)

But all this is mute. Your opponents in that war didn't cross 35 pages of lines.

(and neither did we alone! many others contributed to that thread outside of our clan)

[tec805]

But all this is mute.

If it was mute we wouldn't have to listen to it. But your opinion is rather moot as far as most people are concerned.

See what I did there?

P.S. The last thread about this was archived and locked, so don't expect much to happen here before it disappears.

[eddie2]

lord v and jefjef have you even read the rule as it stands let me quote the part that brings concern into this.

War Thread Behaviour

In order to curb some poor behaviour in the war threads,

players will be denied medals if their behaviour is deemed to be disruptive or inappropriate, even if it does not meet the site wide policy for a forum infraction.

In the past, we’ve locked war threads due to the behaviour of a single individual, thus inherently punishing both clans. In order to be consistent, this will only be applied by the Clan Dept Head (most often these issues are raised by the CD team).

now you 2 are making comments stating if you break a site rule you can be refused a medal. but this rule also states if you don't break a site rule you could also not recieve a medal. people can wind other people up within site rules. but if they are the losing clan they will not recieve any punishment for this. so this rule needs to be corrected.

ps plz dont change this thread into a how the pack misbehaved that is being dealt with else where. this thread is so we can disguss the rule as a general.

[Qwert]

eddie2 have some interesting idea, but i think that maybe something like in footbal punishment can create.
For example,if player get red card in Final of World Cup,he will again get medal, he will not be stripped of medal, because he get red card in game.
Here you can also implement these punishment, and then player from bouth side(winner or luser) can be punished.
1 offense-miss next chalenge
2 offense in row-miss next two chalenge.
Ofcourse he will not be punished in chalenge what he play, he will get medal,but then will be activated punishment and he will be on ice next chalenge.
These is same for loser.

[lord voldemort]

disruptive and inappropriate is against the site rules...if the mods showed some balls and actually punished some people instead of trying to be friends with everyone. Just draw the line...make it clear. If anyone steps over it, then they are punished...if they don't...then there is nothing they can do about it. It is really not that difficult...There is no need for a committee to discuss this issue.

[jghost7]

Yep, the losing clan and non-participating posters don't have any form of sanction published at the moment for crossing the indiscernible line that is not the site rule but somehow remains undefined.

I think that one should be allowed 1 warning per war thread in threads that the player is a participant. If the player then receives a further violation after the warning, then apply the sanction.

I think that a warning given in a non-participating thread should be held for somewhere around 3-4 weeks and be held for all threads that are non-participatory.

Either way, further defining the rule should be done regardless of the upgrade to the sanctioning policy.

As it was stated earlier, this is dealing with the 'War thread behavior' rule, and this rule deals with posts that don't have to break site rules but are still deemed to be violations. If it were violating site rules only, then this discussion would not be taking place. Currently, it is at the discretion of the CD's and the Clan Dept. Head whether or not someone crosses the near invisible line that breaks the rule.

I hope that this rule does get the attention it needs and is able to be upgraded and amended so that it would be fairer to everyone involved.

thanks,

J

disruptive and inappropriate is against the site rules...if the mods showed some balls and actually punished some people instead of trying to be friends with everyone. Just draw the line...make it clear. If anyone steps over it, then they are punished...if they don't...then there is nothing they can do about it. It is really not that difficult...There is no need for a committee to discuss this issue.

Once again, if it were 'just' site rules, then it would not be here being discussed. But as it was pointed out before...:

lord v and jefjef have you even read the rule as it stands let me quote the part that brings concern into this.

War Thread Behaviour

In order to curb some poor behaviour in the war threads,

players will be denied medals if their behaviour is deemed to be disruptive or inappropriate, even if it does not meet the site wide policy for a forum infraction.

In the past, we’ve locked war threads due to the behaviour of a single individual, thus inherently punishing both clans. In order to be consistent, this will only be applied by the Clan Dept Head (most often these issues are raised by the CD team).

now you 2 are making comments stating if you break a site rule you can be refused a medal. but this rule also states if you don't break a site rule you could also not recieve a medal. people can wind other people up within site rules. but if they are the losing clan they will not recieve any punishment for this. so this rule needs to be corrected.

ps plz dont change this thread into a how the pack misbehaved that is being dealt with else where. this thread is so we can disguss the rule as a general.

[TheMissionary]

I vote to let it go.

[Metsfanmax]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

[eddie2]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

yep i like the idea of the war ban escalating per warning instead of a time frame. but i would also like to see if a player is warned there is a cool off period where the warning is erased after a certain amount of time.

[jghost7]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

There is also consideration needed for non clan posters as well. They would not be affected by any benching protocol.

[jefjef]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

There is also consideration needed for non clan posters as well. They would not be affected by any benching protocol.

Are you referring to posts like smeagirls in this war thread that he is not a participant in?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 2#p3472102

[chemefreak]

I vote to let it go.

This is a great idea!

Also, the thread called "medal stripping" was archived with the permission of the OP. I'm not sure who locked it, but it appears there were several posts after it moved to archives...which is just silly!

No amount of voting is going to help here. Keep it civil and obey warnings when they are given or medals will not be granted.

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

If the behavior continues, then the player (or the entire clan) will be denied privileges the next time they seek them.

The site rules apply to the clan forum. However, it is sometimes very difficult for moderators to determine what is and isn't okay in the context of a war thread. Thus, they tend to let things go. The CDs have decided to enforce the peace with the rules that everyone has to agree to when they use the privilege system or want medals. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Great-Ollie]

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

Cool man i think that is what people were asking. I think the only confusion is the clarity of the rules and the punishments. The actual rulings and such i trust the mods decisions. Just wanted some clarity and you just provided it, thank you.

[chemefreak]

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

Cool man i think that is what people were asking. I think the only confusion is the clarity of the rules and the punishments. The actual rulings and such i trust the mods decisions. Just wanted some clarity and you just provided it, thank you.

The system is new. So it will need a history of rulings to help clarify the parameters. Hopefully that will never happen.

[jghost7]

I vote to let it go.

This is a great idea!

Also, the thread called "medal stripping" was archived with the permission of the OP. I'm not sure who locked it, but it appears there were several posts after it moved to archives...which is just silly!

No amount of voting is going to help here. Keep it civil and obey warnings when they are given or medals will not be granted.

As for the "what if they were on the losing clans roster" question...the answer is simple...you will simply not get your next medal.

If the behavior continues, then the player (or the entire clan) will be denied privileges the next time they seek them.

The site rules apply to the clan forum. However, it is sometimes very difficult for moderators to determine what is and isn't okay in the context of a war thread. Thus, they tend to let things go. The CDs have decided to enforce the peace with the rules that everyone has to agree to when they use the privilege system or want medals. What is so hard to understand about that?

What is so hard to understand? I think the fact that the line is not clear on what is and what isn't okay in the context of a war thread. That is hard to understand, especially when a warning is not necessary for it to be enforced. What is hard to understand? What is the penalty for non-clan posters who post in a clan war thread? What is hard to understand? Why it is not available to be discussed officially by the community? What is hard to understand? Its hard to understand where that punishment about the non-winners is outlined in the rules so we can see. Or even if it is the right thing to do. What is hard to understand? Why certain players wish to ignore this rule rather than have it clarified. What is hard to understand? Why we are not being permitted to have this discussion and being able to have a say or be satisfied with an ample explanation that satisfies our need to know these things.

It is frustrating when I and others attempt to ask legitimate questions and the powers that be think it is simpler to ignore and move on. Just because you think it is so simple doesn't mean it is. I ask that you give us a voice and be reasonable with your responses. I believe I have quite reasonably asked these questions in this and the other forum that the question was raised in and found no official responses to my queries, and in fact have found one of the threads buried altogether.

thanks,
J

[smegal69]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Losing your medal for inappropriate behavior almost never happens in team competitions - qwert gave one example, but the same policy holds elsewhere. In such team sports, inappropriate behavior is punished by being sidelined for some number of games.

There is also consideration needed for non clan posters as well. They would not be affected by any benching protocol.

Are you referring to posts like smeagirls in this war thread that he is not a participant in?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 2#p3472102

yes maybe like that post jefjef...... but until there is a clear set of rule's where is the line?

i think there should be a clear line...... for all posts in a clan war thread and not just the winning team punished.
first breach....... you receive a warning, for both players and spectators.

second breach.... player in winning clan will not receive his medal, player in losing clan has a stand down of two wars, spectator gets banned from clan forum for a period of time, maybe 4-6 weeks

third breach.....player gets stood down from all clan wars and threads for up-to 6 months, this for players and spectators alike

but there needs to be a clear set of rules, as i have seen Clan Mods use abusive language in war threads ...... so can anybody use it or is that up to a Clan Mod's desecration who can and who can't??

also how can a clan leader be held responsible for what someone in there clan has written? do they have to approve every post before it is posted? maybe if there is a group of clan members that are breaking the rule's the clan gets a warning, if the behavior continues then they get there privileges taken away for a set period of time.

p.s jefjef we all know how you are the king of mass de baiting