Asia Map Touch-Up & "Name Vote"

[eagleblade]

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 1&t=159163
I am like waiting for this too come out...

[thenobodies80]

but this is a map that is in the regular circulation, it shouldn't get any special treatment just because it's the foundry foreman doing the revamp.

This is false, this map was developed outside the foundry process, that's why we used a different way to fix the issues. This one is not a revamp! Damn it's so hard to understand?

Let me state this clear for the last time. This topic is not about a map revamp.The person who decides about the future and any possible modification on this map is lackattack and he is fine about the map as it is now. When and where in the world the owner of a site can't decide what he wants to do with his own map?
Maybe natty has bought the site and i don't know this?
This map is not going to be revamped, that's why Andy called this touch up.
I only fixed the issues that people raised through the years like few borders and other issues raised with eTickets.
I'm open to change the chinese names obviously but I'm not going to make any other graphics changes.
The abbreviation on kazakhstan was suggested just for consistency, for me it can be written on the map...i don't care.

Anyway, maybe Andy didn't write a clear first topic: the purpose of this topic is just decide the title name.

If you don't like the map, please tell me clear and I'll be happy to bin it in 20 seconds and you will have the old version for other 6 years before someone else is able to convince lackattack to improve the map but not change it.

Now this version is better than the current one? Yes, so decided the title. No, let me know and i bin it.

EDIT: I'm not going to receive medals or premiums for this, it was done just to give you something better than what we have now. It seems I was wrong.

[thenobodies80]

no offense to nobodies of course but the revamp on this one looks too simple to just pass right threw, it deserves a better revamp then just making the colors stand out more on the map itself and some name changes, why not revamp the graphics all together? change the mountain, get that goofy looking dragon and compass out of there and replace it with a eye refreshing background? Hope so.

-griff

np, it's fine I know I can draw this map 1000 times better, but it's not the target of what i did. The map is not supposed to change, if you want a better asia map you can draw one yourself. The rules were set before I started to work on this one and I'm not going to change them now.
The changes were done without having a psd file, but just a flat png, so you can understand that redraw everything again will be an hell and also (and more important) this is not what was asked to me. What you all are asking is anew asia map....then you're able to do that starting a your own project.

[natty dread]

Let me state this clear for the last time. This topic is not about a map revamp.The person who decides about the future and any possible modification on this map is lackattack and he is fine about the map as it is now. When and where in the world the owner of a site can't decide what he wants to do with his own map?
Maybe natty has bought the site and i don't know this?
This map is not going to be revamped, that's why Andy called this touch up.

Settle down, man. No need to be so defensive. I think a valid point was raised, all you had to do was give a reasonable response.

This map is not going to be revamped, that's why Andy called this touch up.

Semantics... Revamp, touch-up, what's the difference?

Anyway, no need to get upset about it. I think you know where I stand on those "seasonal" maps and their free pass through the foundry... you maybe disagree with me, that's fine. And my opinion probably doesn't weigh much anyway, what do I know etc. But you should know it gives many mapmakers a bad taste in the mouth, when they see maps made outside the foundry process, behind closed doors, when they themselves have to work within the process.

So, yeah, this may not be the same thing, but you've already brought this thread to the foundry, and then you say things like "this topic is not for giving feedback to the map images, it's for deciding the name only"... If any other mapmaker anywhere else in the foundry were to present a map image, then tell everyone "I won't take any feedback except for deciding the name of the map" do you think you'd be likely to stamp that map?

Basically, all I'm saying is: I get that you have to work within the limitations lackattack & other admins place on you, and I'm not blaming you for it. But things like these nonetheless bring impressions that the mapmaking process is not the same for everyone. I do wish that revamps (or "touch-ups") like these could be handled within the foundry process, but if that's not something you can help in this case... well, too bad, shit happens I guess?

Anyway, I said my piece, hope you don't take it the wrong way, I don't want this to become any kind of pissing contest or whatever... for the record, if it's a choice between the current images and the "touched-up" ones, by all means get the "touch-up" uploaded, it's still an improvement to the current ones.

[thenobodies80]

I think you know where I stand on those "seasonal" maps and their free pass through the foundry... you maybe disagree with me, that's fine. And my opinion probably doesn't weigh much anyway, what do I know etc. But you should know it gives many mapmakers a bad taste in the mouth, when they see maps made outside the foundry process, behind closed doors, when they themselves have to work within the process.

I'm totally against those maps and I said this to Andy, specially if at least CAs aren't aware about the development. I asked to Andy to not have again maps like that. And if possible to limit seasonl maps to the bone.
Said that in this topic we're discussing a different thing (the title of a map) and what we're discussing now is totally off topic.
In any case you talk like I'm outside the process, I'm also a mapmaker and I developed and I'm developing maps passing through the foundry hell, like everyone else.
I know what it means and I know what you're trying to say. Just it's not the case of this map (Asia or Far east)

Semantics... Revamp, touch-up, what's the difference?

A revamp is when you change the whole graphics, a touch up is when you fix the issues without giving the map a total different styel/graphics/theme, etc etc.
RJBeals Brazil was a revamp, my Asia is a touch up....you can clearly see teh old map in the current one.

if it's a choice between the current images and the "touched-up" ones, by all means get the "touch-up" uploaded, it's still an improvement to the current ones.

Yes it is in this way and it's in this way just for two maps: Asia and USA, the first two maps of this site.

[natty dread]

I'm totally against those maps and I said this to Andy, specially if at least CAs aren't aware about the development.

I think more than CA:s should be aware of the development. Shouldn't the purpose of the foundry to be a public peer-review process? I see no reason not to extend that principle to all the maps, even seasonal ones. I think, the whole "surprise" excuse is pretty irrelevant - not so many people visit the foundry in the first place, so these seasonal maps could well be developed within the foundry and still provide a surprise to a majority of CC users. Or if the surprise element is really that important, then a group of foundry regulars could be formed who would be privy to the development of these maps, so they could provide feedback, and possibly also be offered a chance to be part of the development.

Anyway, this is probably a topic for another thread.

Yes it is in this way and it's in this way just for two maps: Asia and USA, the first two maps of this site.

And that's kinda stupid IMO... no map should be held impervious to criticism or improvement, no matter what sentimental value they may hold. But if lackattack wants it that way, meh, it's his site. I just wish he'd listen more to the people who provide most of the content to his site. I'm not only speaking of mapmakers, but also tournament creators, script writers, etc. And I don't mean they should have any special priviledges, but maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to really listen to their opinions, ideas and complaints once in a while.

[grifftron]

no offense to nobodies of course but the revamp on this one looks too simple to just pass right threw, it deserves a better revamp then just making the colors stand out more on the map itself and some name changes, why not revamp the graphics all together? change the mountain, get that goofy looking dragon and compass out of there and replace it with a eye refreshing background? Hope so.

-griff

np, it's fine I know I can draw this map 1000 times better, but it's not the target of what i did. The map is not supposed to change, if you want a better asia map you can draw one yourself. The rules were set before I started to work on this one and I'm not going to change them now.
The changes were done without having a psd file, but just a flat png, so you can understand that redraw everything again will be an hell and also (and more important) this is not what was asked to me. What you all are asking is anew asia map....then you're able to do that starting a your own project.

OK.. i misunderstood then, i was thinking a touch up like what was said in the OP was just like revamping it... I don't want another map like this, its fine and if you were told to clear things up on the map by lack and andy and you did as told, looks fine to me then, would be cool if it was revamped entirely tho! But for what you were told it looks fine then.

-griff

[thenobodies80]

Anyway, this is probably a topic for another thread.

Yeah, that's certainly a different topic...going to start one to discuss with you all.

i was thinking a touch up like what was said in the OP was just like revamping it

No is not a real revamp, anyway when this name thing is done we can have a map topic (right now there isn't one). So people can go there and suggest for other improvements.
After that the map will be uploaded with the final title I'm open to discuss with you all other possible suggestions or improvements on that thread and with the time I can do my best to apply them. Take what I did for now like an improvement, with time you will have the map you want to play, but not totally a new map. I think it's a good compromise and the best I can do for now.

Maybe a day someone will revamp it at all.

[grifftron]

Cool... sounds fair enough

actually I think a revamp competition on this map would be great

[sensfan]

I'm delighted that the Japan region name is changed to North East Asia, although "Korea and Japan" may be more proper.

And the map should be called Asia. Far East, in my mind, is China, South and North Korea, and Japan.

[macbone]

Yeah, but it's missing most of the Middle East and Russia. I wouldn't call it Asia without it.

But with Iran and the former Soviet Republics, it seems to go beyond the boundaries of just the Far East, which traditionally has been the Indian subcontinent, Southeast Asia, China, Indonesia, Japan, and Korea.

Still, Far East is more appropriate than Asia. I mean, would we have a North America map without Canada and Alaska?

[hoschke118]

Good to see some fixing up of the chinese region names, but there are still some there that are using out of date names.

How about this:
Kwangtung --> Guangdong
Shansi --> Shanxi
Sinkiang --> Xinjiang
Kansu --> Gansu
?

There's really a very loose similarity between the size/shape of the regions in the map and the actual provinces being used as region names, but I assume you're not wanting to change the map around enough to fix that.

[thenobodies80]

Macbone also suggested some changes to names. I'm open to change them, just we're checking if they are all good before to apply the changes.

[hoschke118]

Ah. So he did. I did control+f kwangtung and guangdong to check, but... he misspelt them

[MrBenn]

I forget if I mentioned or not, but I always wanted the map name to be changed to "Asia: Far East"

[OldeHangover88]

Far East to me includes Australia, New Zealand, some territories on Antarctica, and the rest of Northeastern Russia.

Asia to me does not include Japan or Indonesia, but does include the rest of the middle east, which has the western borders of Israel, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and includes all of Russia up to the Ural mountains.

I would Suggest "Classical Asia" since then one is able to open it up to interpretation.

[natty dread]

Asia to me does not include Japan

What.

[eagleblade]

its Tajikistan (typo on new map)

[eagleblade]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajikistan

OMG that typo was on the old map....

[thenobodies80]

If you're going to rename territories on the map, may I suggest these changes to come in line with their official pinyin names?

Shansi -> Shanxi

Sinkiang -> Xinjiang

Kwantung -> Guangdong

Szechwan -> Sichuan

Tsinghai -> Qinghai

Fukien -> Fujian

Correct as is:

Hunan
Yunnan
Tibet
Inner Mongolia
Manchuria

Ok I asked to someone who knows more than me about these names. I was said that your names are written using the modern pinyin chinese.
It has started to be used internationally from the 1980s and they are fine for an asia map (not so good for a traditional far east map).
With the presence of modern chinese names, myanmar and soviet socialist republics, we can date the map at 1989 to 1991.

So i think we should wait and see what title the community prefer
what do you think macbone?

its Tajikistan (typo on new map)

Both names are valid, see the same link you posted, under etymology --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajikistan#Etymology

[iancanton]

i assume most of the people that play this map also know it as asia. so i think it would be best to keep the asia name and change the graphics to also show asia.

i wouldn't pass it as is if i was a foundry mod.

All revamps should go through the foundry.

it shouldn't get any special treatment just because it's the foundry foreman doing the revamp.

as nobodies has already said, this is a touch-up to fix issues and not a proper revamp. this is one of the three original maps commissioned by lackattack, along with usa and the first version of classic. while this map, in my opinion, has some of the poorest artwork on the site, it is entirely up to lackattack whether to grant permission for the existing map to be replaced by a revamped map and, if he does not, then there's no point in revamping the map.

On another note, why is Kazakhstan abbreviated on the map? There's plenty of room for the full territory name.

its Tajikistan (typo on new map)

during the soviet era (the original map uses ussr as a bonus name), kazakhstan was officially the kazakh soviet socialist republic. it formally became kazakhstan only after independence. also after independence, the tadzhik soviet socialist republic became tajikistan: the "j" spelling was regarded by the tajik authorities as being less russian.

ian.

[Dukasaur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajikistan

OMG that typo was on the old map....

It's not a typo. Tadzikhistan is the proper spelling. The new government has decided to change their spelling because it's the trendy thing to do. I say f*ck 'em.

[thenobodies80]

Poll results

Map Title: ASIA. No changes on any web pages (browse a map, start a game, game finder list). --> 46%

Map Title: FAR EAST. Change the title on all relevant web pages. --> 54%

This is the final version that will be uploaded soon

Click image to enlarge.

the xml has been checked by isaiah40 http://wcforums.org/foundry/asia/finalfiles/Asia.xml