Golden Pantheon - Greek - Game Over ~ Scum Win

[strike wolf]

I can't believe you made both Hades and Poseidon fake claims...

[strike wolf]

Than again...I can't believe town lynched Tails....I think town would have won if you had killed safari (I imagine PCm would have tested Sound's bp claim)

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Ha y'know I kinda suspected Saf was an SK. f*ck. Well played Soundman, you picked the right kill.

-Tails

[edocsil]

Roles

Tailgunner ~ Aphrodite ~ Role blocker
Chapcrap ~ Apollo ~ Doc
PCM ~ Ares ~ Vig
MeDeFe ~ Artemis ~ Tracker
Violet ~ Athena ~ Double Voter
Rodion ~ Hermes ~ Hider
Strike Wolf ~ Zeus ~ Joat
Soundman ~ Atlas ~ Goon
Jonty 9 ~ Cronus ~ Godfather, Inv immune, 1 shot BP
Victor ~ Rhea ~ Role Blocker
Safariguy ~ Prometheus ~ SK ~ Scum thought he was an Ally

Actions ~ I lost a night, N3 I think. Sorry about that.

N1
Tailgunner Block strike
MeDeFe Track Tailgunner
Rodion Hide Sound
Strike Wolf Protect Chap
Safariguy Kill chap

N2
Tailgunner Block Victor
MeDeFe Track Rodion
Rodion Hide Sound
Strike Wolf Investigate Safari
Victor RB Strike
Safariguy Kill Strike Kill Rodion

N4
PCM Kill Saf
Victor Kill vio
Safariguy Kill pcm

Thoughts, comments? I plan on getting the next in the series going shortly. Either Norse or an Eastern Religion. Unsure.

[edocsil]

Than again...I can't believe town lynched Tails....I think town would have won if you had killed safari (I imagine PCm would have tested Sound's bp claim)

I know, I saw Saf get blocked and all I could think was "Game Over" couldn't believe it when they hanged Tails.

I can't believe you made both Hades and Poseidon fake claims...

Yeah I left some good fakes in, I just couldn't get good roles for those two to be town.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I'm really curious as to what happened N3.. oh well. 'Twas fun, despite my lynch. I'm down for the next one. Either theme sounds cool.

I know, I saw Saf get blocked and all I could think was "Game Over" couldn't believe it when they hanged Tails.

It probably didn't help that I myself waffled over lynching him. I figured he was a mafia traitor or something, since Victor implied that they had collaborated. Oh well, lesson learned.

-Tails

[strike wolf]

Than again...I can't believe town lynched Tails....I think town would have won if you had killed safari (I imagine PCm would have tested Sound's bp claim)

I know, I saw Saf get blocked and all I could think was "Game Over" couldn't believe it when they hanged Tails.

I can't believe you made both Hades and Poseidon fake claims...

Yeah I left some good fakes in, I just couldn't get good roles for those two to be town.

Was Hera the last fake claim? I was pretty sure her and/or Hades were fake cxlaims. Was surprised to see Sound claim Poseidon.

Also wish Hephaestus was in this instead of hermes (or maybe Ares). Hephaestus could have made a good inventor/swordsmith

So the two people who suspected Safari's claim enough to target him...one got killed, the other lynched. Lol

[jonty125]

You mean scum had fakeclaims I didn't receive any and I was the GF and had to make one up.

And was saf vengeful mafia 'cos in my role PM it said one of my allies couldn't be trusted.

[pancakemix]

Yeah, gonna have to say Poseidon was waaaay to strong a fakeclaim. And I'm not sure what to take away from the fact that the fakes were better than the real ones. It was the only reason I went for tails: I thought there could only be one option. Even if we'd taken out saf, I'd have gone for Rodion next.

And yes, I'm annoyed. Even if I did do dumb things.

On a more positive note: Well played by sound. Haven't played with you much at all, but I see you know what you're doing. Good job.

As an aside, if Saf had won, that kinda defeats the Satan vs. Yahweh thing (which I kinda touched on in my big post). Who wins then in that scenario? The Almighty Kevin?

[Victor Sullivan]

Woooooooooo!!

I can't believe we won! Glad to see saf didn't Dirty traitor!

-Sully

[edocsil]

As an aside, if Saf had won, that kinda defeats the Satan vs. Yahweh thing (which I kinda touched on in my big post). Who wins then in that scenario? The Almighty Kevin?

Idk, I never expected the SK to win, usually they have long odds as it is. Likely would have called it a draw for the Yahweh and Satan. They can't rule over subjects if they are all dead.

[Rodion]

This is just ridiculous. Town has 2 out of 3 mafias fed to them by a 3rd-party and they still manage to lose.

I'm going to suggest that I only join games in which the moderator give me the innocent child / tree stump role, so that people actually listen when I have something to say.

[soundman]

Thanks guys! It was really close though. If PCM and Saf hadn't taken each other out then Saf probably would have won.

[edocsil]

So I was looking at the Japanese gods. They are all relatively benevolent besides one. I don't know how to make a bad guy out of them...

[safariguy5]

Ha y'know I kinda suspected Saf was an SK. f*ck. Well played Soundman, you picked the right kill.

-Tails

Yeah, i tried hiding my NK's to blend in with the mafia ones to throw off suspicion. I was this close to pulling it off too.

[strike wolf]

I can understand why people didn't want Tails and Pancake to targtet each other it was risky. However the Roleblocker was dead and a mafia busdriver in a three man mafia with a godfather in a game this small would be over powered, so I agree that that strategy was best but I can understand the hesitance in following through on that.

[safariguy5]

This is just ridiculous. Town has 2 out of 3 mafias fed to them by a 3rd-party and they still manage to lose.

I'm going to suggest that I only join games in which the moderator give me the innocent child / tree stump role, so that people actually listen when I have something to say.

True, but I purposely fed the two strongest mafia roles to build up town cred and make it more likely that I get believed rather than tails.

Also, telling other people how to play their role usually isn't too successful. Just saying.

[pancakemix]

Also, telling other people how to play their role usually isn't too successful. Just saying.

This. No matter who it is, telling me what to do with my night actions is scummy. Period. Why should we be going after each other to prove something? Who is it that we should not be going after? You? Not to mention that it was in no way verifiable as you've set one of us up to die and leave it a mystery, and the fact that we didn't have time to work out the implications of that test even if we did get the chance to pull it off.

[Rodion]

Why should we be going after each other to prove something?

You're asking the wrong question. The right question is "why should I lynch Tail and let Safari live if the nature of Tail's claim allows it to be tested (and cleared) with few risks"?

The end of a mafia game post-massclaim feels like a rather complicated puzzle (because some pieces are lying and don't add up) in which some moves must be done before others and not observing the correct order will make your strategy a suboptimal one, generating inneficiencies (just like in football you can have 3 tries for a 1st down before you punt in the 4th, while punting in the 1st would not allow you 3 chances to get a 1st down).

The idea that "telling someone what to do with their power role is scummy" is something I could agree with if we all had PhDs in statistical/mathematical fields, but I believe nobody in this forum has one, thus discussing the puzzle together before casting votes would be a good and wise decision. I can't blame Soundman or Safari for lynching Tail because they had their own agenda, but Violet and you really failed not thinking things through (or ignoring someone's thoughts just because a "Hermers, 3-shot town hider" claim looked weird).

My 2 cents.

[VioIet]

I can't blame Soundman or Safari for lynching Tail because they had their own agenda, but Violet and you really failed not thinking things through (or ignoring someone's thoughts just because a "Hermers, 3-shot town hider" claim looked weird).

My 2 cents.

I resent that a bit, because I thought long and hard about who to lynch.

I went with Tails because he had too many inconsistencies in his Night Actions.

Basically, nothing was making much sense, and I knew someone was lying. Saf had won my trust, so there was no way i was agreeing to lynch him. Of course- this was because i was manipulated by him- and he played extremely well.

But from my pov, it is quite obvious why Tails was lynched, and I don't get why its so "surprising" to everyone else.

What I also don't understand, is how the game is over right now. It means that town couldn't mis-lynch even once- in order to win. Seems a bit unfair.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I went with Tails because he had too many inconsistencies in his Night Actions.

wut

-Tails

[edocsil]

I can't blame Soundman or Safari for lynching Tail because they had their own agenda, but Violet and you really failed not thinking things through (or ignoring someone's thoughts just because a "Hermers, 3-shot town hider" claim looked weird).

My 2 cents.

I resent that a bit, because I thought long and hard about who to lynch.

I went with Tails because he had too many inconsistencies in his Night Actions.

Basically, nothing was making much sense, and I knew someone was lying. Saf had won my trust, so there was no way i was agreeing to lynch him. Of course- this was because i was manipulated by him- and he played extremely well.

But from my pov, it is quite obvious why Tails was lynched, and I don't get why its so "surprising" to everyone else.

What I also don't understand, is how the game is over right now. It means that town couldn't mis-lynch even once- in order to win. Seems a bit unfair.

Vio, there were 7 scum and 3 town. I knew the SK would betray the scum at one point so its not like I could only give the scum only 2 members. I also honestly don't understand how the town didn't win in the endgame that we had. Saf got blocked, and there were no kills. The only other possible explanation was the scum for some reason didn't submit any kills, as there were no protective rolls as per the mass claim. After the SK was lynched there would have been a confirmed vig, roleblocker and doublevoter left it and would have been simple to find if Rodion or Soundman was lying. All that needed to happen was to vig Rodion and block Sound during the night. If the game didn't end when Rodion was vigged you hang Sound and there would have been no town deaths so a majority was easy. Also, if there was only you and a scum alive at the start of a day town auto-wins due to your doublevote.

[VioIet]

I still don't get any of this one bit.

How were there 7 scum?

I've never played a game before in which the serial killer knows the mafia members. So I would have never guessed Saf to be the SK.

Was this not a simple town vs mafia game?

How was this game set-up? I'm not able to understand your explanation because I don't know the roles, or set-up, or the night actions.

From what I understand:

Town
Violet
Rodion
Tails
pancakemix
Chapcrap
MeDeFe
Strikewolf

Mafia
Jonty
Victor
Soundman

Sk
Safariguy


That is 7 townies, 3 scum. You must have meant 7 townies, when you said 7 scum.

At the end, for town there was me, rodion and pancake left.
For anti-town, saf and soundman were left.

What happened after that to cause us all to be end-gamed?

The role-blocker was not confirmed, imo. I don't think the end game would have gone quite like that, even if safari was lynched. I would have lynched Rodion before lynching soundman. So, I guess town was doomed to lose regardless.

I thought town was doing well- so I was very surprised to see the result. I suppose we lost too many important town roles in the beginning. But after capturing three mafia in a row, we should of had a lynch or two to spare.

Again, it was still too difficult for town, because we couldn't mislynch even once in order to win. We didn't have a single mislynch until the last day. The fact that it caused us to lose, means the balance wasn't quite right.

[soundman]

At the end, for town there was me, rodion and pancake left.
For anti-town, saf and soundman were left.

What happened after that to cause us all to be end-gamed?

Saf and PCM killed each other. Which left you and Rodion as town and me as mafia. I killed you the same night which left just me and Rodion. Mafia win.

[edocsil]

I still don't get any of this one bit.

How were there 7 scum?

I've never played a game before in which the serial killer knows the mafia members. So I would have never guessed Saf to be the SK.

Was this not a simple town vs mafia game?

How was this game set-up? I'm not able to understand your explanation because I don't know the roles, or set-up, or the night actions.

From what I understand:

Town
Violet
Rodion
Tails
pancakemix
Chapcrap
MeDeFe
Strikewolf

Mafia
Jonty
Victor
Soundman

Sk
Safariguy


That is 7 townies, 3 scum. You must have meant 7 townies, when you said 7 scum.

At the end, for town there was me, rodion and pancake left.
For anti-town, saf and soundman were left.

What happened after that to cause us all to be end-gamed?

The role-blocker was not confirmed, imo. I don't think the end game would have gone quite like that, even if safari was lynched. I would have lynched Rodion before lynching soundman. So, I guess town was doomed to lose regardless.

I thought town was doing well- so I was very surprised to see the result. I suppose we lost too many important town roles in the beginning. But after capturing three mafia in a row, we should of had a lynch or two to spare.

Again, it was still too difficult for town, because we couldn't mislynch even once in order to win. We didn't have a single mislynch until the last day. The fact that it caused us to lose, means the balance wasn't quite right.

Obviously I switched town and scum in my first quote. You have the setup right. The SK was basically another mafia member that didn't win with the mafia. He could talk with them, control their NK if he was the last alive and they thought he was one of them. The godfather however knew there was a traitor, just not who. A mislynch of a townie would put the numbers at 4 town 3 scum and one SK if the SK choose to kill town and all kills succeeded. However, there was both a JOAT, a doc, a hider and a roleblocker and a SK who knew who he needed to betray to win. The game could not end with both the SK and the Scum alive, so even if the town's numbers dipped low a smart player could turn the tide back around. The whole idea of this Pantheon was to make a game for experienced players (notice the lack of a cop) and to make a game challenging for any side to win and was intended to be played a a fast pace. Even if the town lost, the scum stood a good chance to die to the SK, as he was able to manipulate the scums kill. If multiple scum submitted a kill targeting different people the scum kill failed. Effectively the scum lost their kill after all of the town died. It wasn't a simple setup, and it did not play out like a standard game.

In other news, I have the roles for the next Pantheon up. Making the game thread as we speak.