H.E. Mafia, Game Over, Town Prevails. [archive plox]

[DoomYoshi]

Testing a claim by lynch isn't actually testing it.

To test it, one would come to a conclusion regarding whether or not the claim is to be believed IN ORDER TO ACT UPON THAT INFORMATION.

While you are correct that it is a test since we will know whether or not he is scum by lynching, you are missing out on the whole in order to act upon that information. We can't make a decision whether or not to lynch him based on what happened when we lynched him.

You are the one that headed this case if I do recall. That is not out of your nature in my past experience with you. What is however put of your nature in my past experience is your leniency to his claim. You pressured him to the point of a claim and then backed off with nearly no deeper analyzing. It just so happens you are one of the potential five I planned to dog up stuff on once I get on a computer.

I will post more of substance tommorow of I can. For now I will be pretty much inactive besides maybe 1 or 2 more posts. For now we return to the cliff hanger :p

Ok, so my past nature is that I do not lead cases or that I do not unvote?
What would you classify as deeper analyzing?
Also, you are accusing me of starting a case on something and then backing off. I never voted for clever in the first place and defended him against... who? oh right, it was ghostly. So now you are actually completely fabricating stuff in order to try to build a case against me.

Furthermore, you need to explain what you mean by: "clever claims well and is immediately cleared". What does that mean and what are the implications?

Yet another ghostly on doomyoshi case. If this isn't a lyncher I don't know what is.

vote ghostly.
Also, FOS strike.

I don't have time to go into details now, but there have been a few slip-ups which put me on guard. The information gleaned from the night scene is my main focus here. Basically, I don't understand how you made those assumptions.

[strike wolf]

Testing a claim by lynch isn't actually testing it.

To test it, one would come to a conclusion regarding whether or not the claim is to be believed IN ORDER TO ACT UPON THAT INFORMATION.

While you are correct that it is a test since we will know whether or not he is scum by lynching, you are missing out on the whole in order to act upon that information. We can't make a decision whether or not to lynch him based on what happened when we lynched him.

You are the one that headed this case if I do recall. That is not out of your nature in my past experience with you. What is however put of your nature in my past experience is your leniency to his claim. You pressured him to the point of a claim and then backed off with nearly no deeper analyzing. It just so happens you are one of the potential five I planned to dog up stuff on once I get on a computer.

I will post more of substance tommorow of I can. For now I will be pretty much inactive besides maybe 1 or 2 more posts. For now we return to the cliff hanger :p

Ok, so my past nature is that I do not lead cases or that I do not unvote?
What would you classify as deeper analyzing?
Also, you are accusing me of starting a case on something and then backing off. I never voted for clever in the first place and defended him against... who? oh right, it was ghostly. So now you are actually completely fabricating stuff in order to try to build a case against me.

Furthermore, you need to explain what you mean by: "clever claims well and is immediately cleared". What does that mean and what are the implications?

Yet another ghostly on doomyoshi case. If this isn't a lyncher I don't know what is.

vote ghostly.
Also, FOS strike.

I don't have time to go into details now, but there have been a few slip-ups which put me on guard. The information gleaned from the night scene is my main focus here. Basically, I don't understand how you made those assumptions.

I can't completely. I think I did mention (Or at least meant to) that it was wifomy. I partially mentioned it because I am becoming increasingly unnerved with how often I see experienced players killed early so I pointed it out. Secondly, the other kill was either busdriven with Crazy busdriving himself (we will not be able to confirm that since he is dead so I don't see any point speculating on it past mentioning the possibility) or I figured more likely SK or vig kill (leaning SK) because they are much more likely to take out targets that have appeared scummy during the day than mafia would be. Beyond that i can't really comment on suspicions that haven't been expressed.

[DoomYoshi]

Thats it. I just went and looked back, and it seemed suspect. Hard to build cases with so little time.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Vote Count

MoB Deadly:
dazza2008:
Some7hingCLEVER: 3 (ghostly, jonty, spiesr)
spiesr:
pancakemix:
jonty125:
Victor Sullivan:
new guy1:
chapcrap:
soundman:
ghostly447: 1 (Doom)
safariguy5:
strike wolf:
Doom Yoshi:
la galleta:
NL:

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

(On this note, TAILGUNNER, could you prod pancakemix and maybe Victor Sullivan? Also, in case you missed it before, la galleta is guested and needs to be replaced.)

Posted in the replacement thread for la galleta yesterday. I'll probably pm some peeps here shortly. Also, I'll prod both pcm and VS. Edit: Also, I know pcm said a while back that he would be less active because of internet or something like that.

-Tails

[jonty125]

I'm going to [color#FF0000]unvote[/color]. Like I said in my last post I'm willing for him to target me tonight to test his claim. I aren't happy with test by lynch or "lunch" as ghostly said.

Sane - I'll be alive
Insane - I'll die
CPR - Either (hoping flavour can help)
Naive - I doubt it but that could be either as well

Just a thought while posting could Dr. Jekyll be skitzo and is claiming doc as this is one of his "potential" abilities.

[ghostly447]

I'm going to [color#FF0000]unvote[/color]. Like I said in my last post I'm willing for him to target me tonight to test his claim. I aren't happy with test by lynch or "lunch" as ghostly said.

Sane - I'll be alive
Insane - I'll die
CPR - Either (hoping flavour can help)
Naive - I doubt it but that could be either as well

Just a thought while posting could Dr. Jekyll be skitzo and is claiming doc as this is one of his "potential" abilities.

What about fake claim? By lunch I meant Lynch. My phone doesn't help. Here in a few minutes I will be on a computer ready to make cases. If he is fake claiming and you live are you assuming he protected you? The are flaws here.

[ghostly447]

Okay, just thought of something. If there is a town vig, please also target jonty. That way we may truly test his claim. If jonty dies, then CLEVER is not a doctor in any way shape or form (or he isnt sane. In which his role is limited directly to crap, or VT, in which case more may be willing to test by lynch).


In the meanwhile I am a bit busy, and only have an hour 15 minutes. I will try to build my other cases since apparently this one will not make it until Day 3 at least. But I do feel that either Jonty will die, or a vig or SK will not attack him.

Also spiesr, you brought up that my concern I was going to be killed brings back my scumminess. lol. Well, I have my hunches and that is why I will try to get my thoughts out today. I really dont want to die before getting my suspicions out. lol. We will see, but I can not guess what the mafia or any SK or Vig will do. So I will not try to read thought. It was an immediate thing at the time to say, and therefore I take back my thoughts that I may die. lol.

[safariguy5]

Okay, just thought of something. If there is a town vig, please also target jonty. That way we may truly test his claim. If jonty dies, then CLEVER is not a doctor in any way shape or form (or he isnt sane. In which his role is limited directly to crap, or VT, in which case more may be willing to test by lynch).


In the meanwhile I am a bit busy, and only have an hour 15 minutes. I will try to build my other cases since apparently this one will not make it until Day 3 at least. But I do feel that either Jonty will die, or a vig or SK will not attack him.

Also spiesr, you brought up that my concern I was going to be killed brings back my scumminess. lol. Well, I have my hunches and that is why I will try to get my thoughts out today. I really dont want to die before getting my suspicions out. lol. We will see, but I can not guess what the mafia or any SK or Vig will do. So I will not try to read thought. It was an immediate thing at the time to say, and therefore I take back my thoughts that I may die. lol.

I sorta have a problem with jonty wanting clever to test on him. By announcing himself now, it gives mafia the opportunity to roleblock clever and then get a free kill on jonty. Which, if clever is a sane doctor, basically neutralizes the doctor for the rest of the game.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ugh stupid roleblocks

[dazza2008]

Okay, just thought of something. If there is a town vig, please also target jonty. That way we may truly test his claim. If jonty dies, then CLEVER is not a doctor in any way shape or form (or he isnt sane. In which his role is limited directly to crap, or VT, in which case more may be willing to test by lynch).


In the meanwhile I am a bit busy, and only have an hour 15 minutes. I will try to build my other cases since apparently this one will not make it until Day 3 at least. But I do feel that either Jonty will die, or a vig or SK will not attack him.

Also spiesr, you brought up that my concern I was going to be killed brings back my scumminess. lol. Well, I have my hunches and that is why I will try to get my thoughts out today. I really dont want to die before getting my suspicions out. lol. We will see, but I can not guess what the mafia or any SK or Vig will do. So I will not try to read thought. It was an immediate thing at the time to say, and therefore I take back my thoughts that I may die. lol.

I sorta have a problem with jonty wanting clever to test on him. By announcing himself now, it gives mafia the opportunity to roleblock clever and then get a free kill on jonty. Which, if clever is a sane doctor, basically neutralizes the doctor for the rest of the game.

Hopefully a watcher could catch a roleblocker then. Depends on having a watcher though. Good to keep those scumbags worrying though

[safariguy5]

Okay, just thought of something. If there is a town vig, please also target jonty. That way we may truly test his claim. If jonty dies, then CLEVER is not a doctor in any way shape or form (or he isnt sane. In which his role is limited directly to crap, or VT, in which case more may be willing to test by lynch).


In the meanwhile I am a bit busy, and only have an hour 15 minutes. I will try to build my other cases since apparently this one will not make it until Day 3 at least. But I do feel that either Jonty will die, or a vig or SK will not attack him.

Also spiesr, you brought up that my concern I was going to be killed brings back my scumminess. lol. Well, I have my hunches and that is why I will try to get my thoughts out today. I really dont want to die before getting my suspicions out. lol. We will see, but I can not guess what the mafia or any SK or Vig will do. So I will not try to read thought. It was an immediate thing at the time to say, and therefore I take back my thoughts that I may die. lol.

I sorta have a problem with jonty wanting clever to test on him. By announcing himself now, it gives mafia the opportunity to roleblock clever and then get a free kill on jonty. Which, if clever is a sane doctor, basically neutralizes the doctor for the rest of the game.

Hopefully a watcher could catch a roleblocker then. Depends on having a watcher though. Good to keep those scumbags worrying though

But then it's a WIFOM situation where you're wondering whether you should watch clever or watch jonty. Because honestly, multiple people could have good reason to visit clever (cop trying to check alignment, etc.) in which case watching clever may not make the mafia player clear.

On the other hand, if you watch jonty, you assume that mafia will WIFOM and kill jonty. Which may just lead them to target someone else.

Yeah, layers of WIFOM there...

[Victor Sullivan]

Sorry, been a "hectic" week Watching Cynthia's dog. I think it's a Pomeranian. I can't leave him home alone or he eats the furniture. I'm watching him while Cynthia and Marty Ackerman are in Hawaii.

I'll see if I can't read up and catch up on things.

-Sully

[strike wolf]

Trying to write a big post...keep losing train of thought in the middle of one of my arguments...

[jonty125]

I sorta have a problem with jonty wanting clever to test on him. By announcing himself now, it gives mafia the opportunity to roleblock clever and then get a free kill on jonty. Which, if clever is a sane doctor, basically neutralizes the doctor for the rest of the game.

Bit of WIFOM here but surely if mafia didn't kill they would at least roleblock him (assuming they have a roleblocker).

[TA1LGUNN3R]

jak111 replace la galleta.

-Tails

[jak111]

jak111 replace la galleta.

-Tails

Confirmed
Gtg to school for now, will catch up on the entire thread when I return in about 7 hours or so.

[DoomYoshi]

It's quite a bit of reading jak. Good luck to you though.

Welcome to the game! (I would vote you but I am busy now)

[strike wolf]

Well as much as I don't like Ghostly's attitude about lynching a claimed doc. He is right about a couple of issues specifically regarding those who seem to want the "Real doc" to counter claim. I believe I've also stated a couple of times that the claim does indeed not sit right. I don't know how Hyde would fit in and that unnerves me.

THat being said. I still feel like Ghostly is being a bit lax in his attitude towards the doc claim and i think the suspicion on him has been well placed accordingly.

[ghostly447]

Well as much as I don't like Ghostly's attitude about lynching a claimed doc. He is right about a couple of issues specifically regarding those who seem to want the "Real doc" to counter claim. I believe I've also stated a couple of times that the claim does indeed not sit right. I don't know how Hyde would fit in and that unnerves me.

THat being said. I still feel like Ghostly is being a bit lax in his attitude towards the doc claim and i think the suspicion on him has been well placed accordingly.

I feel very strong that CLEVER is scum, but the only reason I am on my computer now is to send in resume's and volunteer, etc, so I have no time to dig up a case on the others.

I can say that the other ones that seem most scummy to me are doomyoshi (I think I already tried a case on him) and potentially Chapcrap (Like I said, no time to go back and make a case right now, but I remember something triggered me to think chap may be scum).

I have some others in mind, but those are my 3 strongest feelings in that order or scuminess.

Strike, I dont get what you mean by "Ghostly is being a bit lax in..". Please simplify the terms if you get time. lol.

[spiesr]

Strike, I dont get what you mean by "Ghostly is being a bit lax in..". Please simplify the terms if you get time. lol.

I think that the gist of that point is the you don't appear to be considering all of the potential ramifications of lynching a claimed doc and aren't treating the situation with a gravity it demands. More or less you seem to be dismissive of claim, while others find the doc claim to be of utmost importance and they are naturally not very attracted to the possibility of lynching the doctor.

[jak111]

That was wayyy too much to fully catch up on especially since a lot of the posts were nonsense and unhelpful in any way shape or form to me. So I skimmed and see that people are posting literally all over the place their votes.

Hmm, this is my 2nd game. Our first which most of you I've played with in knows we were up against a total of 6 baddies.. Which was a pain. AS there are no baddies dead yet in this game and 2 kills the first night either there are 2 killers altogether or be like our other game where there were 2 factions with a kill a night each.

And as with the suspicion I think I'll let you guys work a more of a case out before I barge in with thoughts. Of what caught my eye we seem to be sure of a whole lot of nothing. If a vote chart of something of that sort can be presented I'd gladly take a look at it and see what we're up against here.

[ghostly447]

spiesr, I do not mean to dismiss his claim, I just simply dont believe his claim. And the normal people who normally pick it apart such as doomyoshi and sometimes chapcrap just arent doing it this time which makes me think they are connected. They would rather ask for a counterclaim from another doctor than delve deeper into this claimed doctor (which by the way, CLEVER has complained about this community putting everything under a microscope. So the fact it isnt that bad this time is just a surprise to me as to why our normally amazing town players just arent playing it like they normally do.

It is just the overall scenario of the 3 I have accused that unnerves me. Normally a doctor claim would be fine by me, but the name and the other factors in this particular claim are what make me want to delve deeper and not trust this claim.

[chapcrap]

ghostly, I think the only reason you think I'm scummy is because I have declined to lynch a claimed doc. I have already said my reasons for this. And, as you should be able to see, no one else wants to lynch a claimed doctor without a counter claim.

I'm not advocating that if there is another doctor that they claim, because CLEVER could still be telling the truth and just be insane and not even be scum. Then we have our actual doctor outed on Day 2. Bad news for town if that happens. It's already bad for town that CLEVER had to claim and that he's probably some ridiculous doc role if he's telling the truth.

[ghostly447]

ghostly, I think the only reason you think I'm scummy is because I have declined to lynch a claimed doc. I have already said my reasons for this. And, as you should be able to see, no one else wants to lynch a claimed doctor without a counter claim.

I'm not advocating that if there is another doctor that they claim, because CLEVER could still be telling the truth and just be insane and not even be scum. Then we have our actual doctor outed on Day 2. Bad news for town if that happens. It's already bad for town that CLEVER had to claim and that he's probably some ridiculous doc role if he's telling the truth.

As I said. Too much to read through in too little time. I may get more time to be on the computer tonight in which I would happily go through. And I dont think its scummy that you dont want to lynch a doc claim, I find it scummy that you arent delving any deeper than "I am mr hyde, I claim doctor. Maybe I am a CPR doctor or something of the sort."

[jak111]

Well of who's left, I've played with 5 of you. So hopefully I can nit-pick at your actions this game compared to last. Which so far I find Ghostly is putting more of himself into this game than the last, which leaves me to believe (Not guarantee) that he is town. Last game he was not really that much into the game and he was scum.

Hopefully that helps, because as of yet it is all I have so far on my analysis of this game. (Which excuse my quietness that may or may not set in) But joining the 2nd day leaves me with no true leads to follow as of yet. But a claim on the 2nd day? It sounds fishy. Just saying, but make sure to exploit all the info you can from it.