Italy [Quenched]

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:48 pm

i just shrunk the big image to a small size and i think the army numbers are a bit unreadable in the capitals (the othere terits are fine)

why don't you try putting some starts as army cirles but only in the capitals or some shields.

PS: thanks for the appreciation

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:10 pm

DiM wrote:i just shrunk the big image to a small size and i think the army numbers are a bit unreadable in the capitals (the othere terits are fine)

PS: thanks for the appreciation

Was that posted in the right forum?

For the stone bridges.... I'll give them a try.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:34 pm

RjBeals wrote:
DiM wrote:i just shrunk the big image to a small size and i think the army numbers are a bit unreadable in the capitals (the othere terits are fine)

PS: thanks for the appreciation
Was that posted in the right forum?

For the stone bridges.... I'll give them a try.

yes it's posted in the right thread. the darker colour in the capitals will make the army numbers unreadable. the otherteritories don't need circles because the colours are pastel. so put some stars or shields in the capitals as army circles. it also will make the capitals stand out more even for colour blind people.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:37 pm

Ah... I see. I was worried about the dark capitals and some monitors not showing enough contrast to keep the numbers standing out. Also, I am not planning to just shrink the image. That always causes some unwanted pixilization & jagged edges. I will resize each layer as needed. I will not attempt that though until the map is worked out.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:50 pm

i like the bridges as they are. did notice one missing in messina.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:55 pm

This has long been one of my favourite maps in development and I was disappointed to see it had slipped to the third page, so I thought I'd give it a good look over and make some suggestions.

I think the piers are unnecessary and losing them would mean the bridges could remain unchanged. I would also like the sea routes stand out a bit more from the water.

The shadow effect on the dead territory part of the map looks a little strange to me. It sort of gives the impression that the land is lower than the water.

Perhaps use a bit more light glow/stroke to the font to help it stand out when crossing borders and other objects. I feel that the rivers and lakes could use a darker edge to them as opposed to the lighter edge the currently seem to have.

It might be nice if the river in the legend was shaped like a river rather than just being a blue rectangle.

The border of Messina/Sicilia appears to have a tiny bit missing.

Keep up the good work, I look forward to playing this one.

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:11 am

RjBeals is actually on break from both of his maps for a few weeks. He made a post in his other map thread, but I guess he didn't mention it here.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:07 am

Samus wrote:RjBeals is actually on break from both of his maps for a few weeks. He made a post in his other map thread, but I guess he didn't mention it here.

I didn't notice that one. Did he say when he will be back as this is in the top 3 maps that I want to play that are currently in development?

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:54 pm

I'm still checking in - just seriously don't have time right now. Spring is our busy time at work (and home w/ the yard work on weekends). And I'm training our group on some new software so I really don't have blocks of free time to open up photoshop & start tweeking.

Thanks for the suggestions & feedback. I'll start work on this in a few more weeks when things slow down around here.

I'm about to give up actually playing the games seeing as how I can't remember the last time I won a game, and I'm now a private under 1000. Obviously I should stick to map building & not map playin g

haoala · Post by **haoala** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:04 am

do you suppose sud should have a little more bonus? say, perhaps, 5?
im just asking and giving some suggestions, as i feel that it has not enough even though it has many territories.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:40 am

RjBeals wrote:I'm still checking in - just seriously don't have time right now. Spring is our busy time at work (and home w/ the yard work on weekends). And I'm training our group on some new software so I really don't have blocks of free time to open up photoshop & start tweeking.

Thanks for the suggestions & feedback. I'll start work on this in a few more weeks when things slow down around here.

I'm about to give up actually playing the games seeing as how I can't remember the last time I won a game, and I'm now a private under 1000. Obviously I should stick to map building & not map playin g

wow i had completely forgotten about this map. but i agree with ruben- its one of the top on my list to play. so we'll be glad to see you back!

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:55 am

id forgotten too...and it is a great map...good to hear you are not gone but just busy...looking forward to this one getting finished...

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:22 pm

OLD

NEW

Okay – I finally sat down and started updating this map. Read through the past couple pages & applied changes. Overall I'm much happier with this revision. Much cleaner overall - which is important to me.

Here are the changes:

Removed Piers (Docks), kept bridges. There seemed to be a lot of people who thought the piers were not needed – so they are gone. Truthfully, I like it better without them!
Darkened the sea routes.
Softened colors a bit more to make capitol cities stand out still be able to see armies without the use of the army circles/shadows under them.
Took Samus / Enigma / Ruben’s advice on the city bonus. I was going to take them out totally, but they are such important cities to Italy, I had to have some kind of bonus for them…
Moved / Resized flag & put under Italia title. Believe me, I struggled to find a place for it. That’s the best I could come up with.
Keyogi - I kept the shadow effect only because I personally love it. It does make Italy almost appear to be floating, but that’s what I love about it. It stands out and is the focal point.
Made the river more of a river shape rather than a block – although I’m not sure I’m satisfied with it (or the whole legend in general).

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:42 pm

Great update.

Firstly, the new borders are a much better thickness but I would put back the slight outer glow you had in the old version. it seemed to make them pop out more and marked the territories better.

As for the legend, I think its pretty much fine graphically. I would, however, show what a city actually is, as it took me a while to work it out without looking at the previous version. Perhaps a small black dot by the name of each one like in a standard map? Then this could be marked in the legend. I think you could probably get rid of the sea routes text, though, as its pretty intuitive.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:54 pm

The cities are a little tricky. What if their font was bolder, or a different colour?

Looking great!

Cheers

Gozar

Samus · Post by **Samus** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:02 pm

I agree with everything Guiscard said, perhaps something a bit more complicated/unique for the cities. Just a plain dot might not register as a symbol for something right away (and you can obviously do better than that graphically).

Also, I think what Keyogi was talking about was the shadow effect on the dead areas outside of Italy. Everywhere that was brown sort of looked like it was below the sea. You removed it in this version though, problem solved.

steve monkey · Post by **steve monkey** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:48 pm

why is Palermo no longer the capital city on Sicily? Also, wouldn't Catania be a better name for the South Eastern region of Sicily since it's the biggest city in the region?
Really looking forward to playing this map, it's looking great!

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:05 pm

steve monkey wrote:why is Palermo no longer the capital city on Sicily?

Opps...

I'll fix it before the next update. Thanks!

FIXED !

Do the flags work for city capitols? I tried stars & they look bad. The theme of this map if very subtle so I don't want obtrusive capitol markers all over the place. Thanks !

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:47 pm

im not big on the flags- i liked the old colours, from the "old" version of the map, a lot better. i also like the old borders, especially the glow, like guiscard and samus have said, ...and the docks, though those i dont care much about.
however the capitol bonuses make a lot more sense, and the flag under the title is great

also, what might help on the colours- is to make the other capitol colours the same saturation as torino. it seems a lot darker in comparison to venezia and palermo, etc.

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:56 pm

Not too keen on the flags. They look a little cliparty. I think some form of circle or star would be the best idea to be honest. It wouldn't be intrusive to the eye yet it would mark out what the legend means.

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:57 pm

Enigma wrote:im not big on the flags- i liked the old colours, from the "old" version of the map, a lot better.

You mean for both countries & capitols? Or just the deeply saturated capitol cities?

As far as the outter glow - i liked it in some areas, but not others. Maybe I just looked at the map too long. Right now, I prefer the new borders - like I said it makes it look a little cleaner.

And I'm also not sure about the flags. Just a quick draft to get some feedback. I think I'll give it a few days before I do anything else. Thanks guys.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:19 pm

RjBeals wrote:
Enigma wrote:im not big on the flags- i liked the old colours, from the "old" version of the map, a lot better.
You mean for both countries & capitols? Or just the deeply saturated capitol cities?

everything except the new colour for nord-ovest. thats really nice

and the more i compare the borders, the more i prefer the old ones. they really made the actual map part stand out.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:51 pm

I like the new borders, they're much cleaner and smoother. The glow could be added, but I don't think it's needed. I find the map looks a lot better without all the piers and I like the new location of the flag. The river in the legend is a nice improvement, but the rest of the legend feels a bit empty now. I'm going to agree with Guiscard about the flags, but I'm sure you can come up with something suitable.

My only concern that seems to have gone unaddressed is the font. This is only really a problem in Monferrato though, so perhaps just play around with the placement of the text there.

The water in Monferrato is leaking out underneath the border into the dead territory and there's something weird going on in Venezia.

Very nice map RJ, I look forward to playing it.

Ruben Cassar · Post by **Ruben Cassar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:21 pm

Sicilia should be Catania.

Impassable river should be fiume impenetrabile or fiume non accessibile.

I will comment later on the rest of the map as I am a bit in a hurry at the moment. I just wish something could be done to make Milano more important since it is the second most important Italian city (and the wealthiest) but I have no idea how to do this. Maybe someone else has ideas?

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:10 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:Impassable river should be fiume impenetrabile or fiume non accessibile.

Hmm.. I do not speak italian and I would not understand that if I was new to this map. It's kinda obvious though, so maybe not a big deal. Thanks Ruben - I'm anxious for any of your comments / suggestions.