Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[freezie]

Prod received. Sorry for my lack of activity, last 4 days didn't give me much of a chance to do more than cover my turns. I am re-reading now and will post in a few minutes.

[freezie]

On the topic of mass claim, I say NO! Not only is that not a fun way to play but I just don't see it working. Too easy for mafia to fakeclaim and then take out our power roles.

Is this it?

What do you think of the freezie wagon? (which still exists)
Is there anyone else that strikes you as scummy?
What do you think of partial mass claims, top 3/5?
Why have did you not post in this thread over the past few days while you were active in other games?
Were you lurking?

Alright, I have read everything and out of everything that happened, this post I will answer to, even though it is not addressed to me, covers most of the big points that happened in my abscence:

What do you think of the freezie wagon? (which still exists)

Hey look that's me. I will say what I always say about bandwaggoning/lynching/pressuring an inactive -before- a prod is sent. It's an insanely easy way to get someone lynch for what seems to be a good reason when it isn't. FoS on all these people. Especially Some7hingClever for changing his mind very quickly when it appears it's going to fall on him. Heck let me emphasis that: Vote: Some7hingClever

Call out an OMGUS if you want. I don't really care. That has been my point of view before and that won't change even if the inactive was none other than myself.

Is there anyone else that strikes you as scummy?

Answered that up there.

What do you think of partial mass claims, top 3/5?

It's ridiculous, as ridiculous as a mass claim. Unless all mafias took mafias-only roles, which is possible, even if they claim, we are nowhere near closer to figure out if they are scum. Even if they claim cop, it doesn't help. They could be a town or mafia cop. Probabilities are as high as there is mafias out there. WE need to hunt scum without caring about the roles until we get more info. Then we may catch someone in a lie.

Last 2 questions are not addressed to me so won't answer.

That should cover what I missed. Sorry again for my absence. I am back now.

[everywhere116]

It's not because of Clever putting Freezie at L3 but that he has said almost nothing so far and then just jumps on the first wagon to come along. He didn't even do a joke vote. Just doesn't sit too well with me... I kinda want to pass it off as a noob thing but he's in/been in a lot of games. Seems he should have learned a thing or two by now.

I have found it wise never to underestimate the power of idiocy.

[everywhere116]

Unvote

Freezie's back.

[shieldgenerator7]

UNVOTE don't want to melt freezie unnecessarily

BTW freezie I believe votes need to be in red.

-SG7 ( )

[freezie]

UNVOTE don't want to melt freezie unnecessarily

BTW freezie I believe votes need to be in red.

-SG7 ( )

Tell me where you saw that and I'll beleive you. Rodion recently made a rule about not needing unvotes...There is otherwise no other rule as far as voting goes.

[dazza2008]

Just caught up. I had a busy weekend.

I also found the reason of Ghostly's joke vote a bit odd. I do realise it was a joke vote but to say it is because they are a good player seems pretty scummy to me.

Anyway I will unvote. Seems we have moved out of the joke stage.

[pmchugh]

What do you think of the freezie wagon? (which still exists)

Hey look that's me. I will say what I always say about bandwaggoning/lynching/pressuring an inactive -before- a prod is sent. It's an insanely easy way to get someone lynch for what seems to be a good reason when it isn't. FoS on all these people. Especially Some7hingClever for changing his mind very quickly when it appears it's going to fall on him. Heck let me emphasis that: Vote: Some7hingClever

Call out an OMGUS if you want. I don't really care. That has been my point of view before and that won't change even if the inactive was none other than myself.

Being that s7clever is relatively new (based on what others are saying), do you not think that what you said around the wagon on you could similarly be applied to your vote towards him?

I still think s7 should answer you, but just thought I should point out the irony. The truth is on day 1 it is all about asking questions and sometimes random BW's are great for getting answers. unvote for now

[ghostly447]

Just caught up. I had a busy weekend.

I also found the reason of Ghostly's joke vote a bit odd. I do realise it was a joke vote but to say it is because they are a good player seems pretty scummy to me.

Anyway I will unvote. Seems we have moved out of the joke stage.

I have been in other games where people say "Speedlynch 'insert amazing players name here' GOGOGO" And there is nothing but joke voting after.

FOS Dazza for looking far to deep into just another Joke Vote.

Unvote joke voting has been over awhile. Though due to Dazza and Nag's reaction Im not sure if I should try to dig up a case on them or not.

[shieldgenerator7]

UNVOTE don't want to melt freezie unnecessarily

BTW freezie I believe votes need to be in red.

-SG7 ( )

Tell me where you saw that and I'll beleive you. Rodion recently made a rule about not needing unvotes...There is otherwise no other rule as far as voting goes.

Wow, you're right. I didn't catch that. In the OP he says "Regular mafia rules apply" and I assumed it meant red votes, especially because everyone else this game has done so and lately it has been customary to put votes in red. We'll see if Rodion tallies it or not to see if regular bold will do. I'm thinking he probably will.

-SG7 ( )

[spiesr]

Ok I'll get off sorryunvote

If you don't have enough conviction to stick to your vote when people slightly criticize it, then why did you join the bandwagon in the first place?

UNVOTE don't want to melt freezie unnecessarily

So, then your original vote on him was an attempt to force him to post, or ???

[Ragian]

Having not been too active myself, I feel it would be hypocritical to vote for freeze just now. If he doesn't check in soon, I will though.

On that note, I'm going to Barcelona on a study tour with 18 students Sunday - Thursday. I'll be sure to check in, but perhaps I'm not as active as I want to be.

This has to be my best post ever. Apparently I'd forgotten that I voted freeze as a joke earlier

unvote

On the topic of mass claim, I say NO! Not only is that not a fun way to play but I just don't see it working. Too easy for mafia to fakeclaim and then take out our power roles.

I always get a bit anxious when people put it like this in order to really sound town-ish, but I reckon it's nothing really.

[dazza2008]

Just caught up. I had a busy weekend.

I also found the reason of Ghostly's joke vote a bit odd. I do realise it was a joke vote but to say it is because they are a good player seems pretty scummy to me.

Anyway I will unvote. Seems we have moved out of the joke stage.

I have been in other games where people say "Speedlynch 'insert amazing players name here' GOGOGO" And there is nothing but joke voting after.

FOS Dazza for looking far to deep into just another Joke Vote.

Unvote joke voting has been over awhile. Though due to Dazza and Nag's reaction Im not sure if I should try to dig up a case on them or not.

So because it is joke vote stage I should ignore the words you use? You said something that in my opinion sounded scummy. I never voted you or even FOSed I just noted it and will keep an eye on you.

[ghostly447]

Just caught up. I had a busy weekend.

I also found the reason of Ghostly's joke vote a bit odd. I do realise it was a joke vote but to say it is because they are a good player seems pretty scummy to me.

Anyway I will unvote. Seems we have moved out of the joke stage.

I have been in other games where people say "Speedlynch 'insert amazing players name here' GOGOGO" And there is nothing but joke voting after.

FOS Dazza for looking far to deep into just another Joke Vote.

Unvote joke voting has been over awhile. Though due to Dazza and Nag's reaction Im not sure if I should try to dig up a case on them or not.

So because it is joke vote stage I should ignore the words you use? You said something that in my opinion sounded scummy. I never voted you or even FOSed I just noted it and will keep an eye on you.

So then when someone in other games says "Speedlynch this person GOGOGO" I see you tracking them at all times? NO. You are trying to give false pretenses to give you permission to suspect me of being mafia. And therefore my vote stands.

[dazza2008]

Just caught up. I had a busy weekend.

I also found the reason of Ghostly's joke vote a bit odd. I do realise it was a joke vote but to say it is because they are a good player seems pretty scummy to me.

Anyway I will unvote. Seems we have moved out of the joke stage.

I have been in other games where people say "Speedlynch 'insert amazing players name here' GOGOGO" And there is nothing but joke voting after.

FOS Dazza for looking far to deep into just another Joke Vote.

Unvote joke voting has been over awhile. Though due to Dazza and Nag's reaction Im not sure if I should try to dig up a case on them or not.

So because it is joke vote stage I should ignore the words you use? You said something that in my opinion sounded scummy. I never voted you or even FOSed I just noted it and will keep an eye on you.

So then when someone in other games says "Speedlynch this person GOGOGO" I see you tracking them at all times? NO. You are trying to give false pretenses to give you permission to suspect me of being mafia. And therefore my vote stands.

What vote?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

sorry im here ..but freezie ur saying because i invited for you before everyone else cause i realized it was a stupid idea that im scummy ...thats just ridiculous..u shouldn't be voting someone for reading something before everyone else

[ghostly447]

The vote I could have sworn I put on you Dazza but will not bother with now..lol

[Some7hingCLEVER]

It's not because of Clever putting Freezie at L3 but that he has said almost nothing so far and then just jumps on the first wagon to come along. He didn't even do a joke vote. Just doesn't sit too well with me... I kinda want to pass it off as a noob thing but he's in/been in a lot of games. Seems he should have learned a thing or two by now.

and to this soundman im sorry that I don't say much day 1 because im not that big on joke voting but I saw he was inactive along with everyone else and decided to add my vote not realizing it was l-3 thats when i realized and backed off

[freezie]

What do you think of the freezie wagon? (which still exists)

Hey look that's me. I will say what I always say about bandwaggoning/lynching/pressuring an inactive -before- a prod is sent. It's an insanely easy way to get someone lynch for what seems to be a good reason when it isn't. FoS on all these people. Especially Some7hingClever for changing his mind very quickly when it appears it's going to fall on him. Heck let me emphasis that: Vote: Some7hingClever

Call out an OMGUS if you want. I don't really care. That has been my point of view before and that won't change even if the inactive was none other than myself.

Being that s7clever is relatively new (based on what others are saying), do you not think that what you said around the wagon on you could similarly be applied to your vote towards him?

I still think s7 should answer you, but just thought I should point out the irony. The truth is on day 1 it is all about asking questions and sometimes random BW's are great for getting answers. unvote for now

Uh..what? Why would you think that what I said about the wagon on me ( beeing an easy way to join a BW ) be applied to a vote based on someone who reacts easily to questions asked towards him? If he is scared to draw attention, there is a higher probability of him beeing scum. Also, people said he has been in other games before. In any ways, there is no corelation about my vote on him and the votes I got on me.

I am all for random bandwaggons on day 1. It gathers info, wether on the bw'ers or the bandwaggoned. Point is, if an inactive is going to be bandwaggoned, I prefer him to be prodded first. No point lynching someone who isn't here to answer and therefor contribute to the discussion if not prodded beforehand. This has been my oppinion before and I have no intention to change that.

[alt1978]

It's not because of Clever putting Freezie at L3 but that he has said almost nothing so far and then just jumps on the first wagon to come along. He didn't even do a joke vote. Just doesn't sit too well with me... I kinda want to pass it off as a noob thing but he's in/been in a lot of games. Seems he should have learned a thing or two by now.

This also strikes me as off and I'm not quite buying clever's defense. I don't know anything about reading into what clever said...maybe he just really didn't know that it was L-3...but at worst that seems a dangerous mistake. I wouldn't mind hearing more from clever on what he saw in freezie to make the vote...and to hear more of his thoughts in general. No finger of suspicion however at this time from me...despite wanting to hear more.

What comes off as scummy to me the more and more that I think about it...is the wide push early on for a mass claim. I just can't figure out in looking at it...with none of us knowing anything about the town/mafia nature of the roles that would be revealed...how that doesn't work to help the mafia. Spiesr was the one who initiated that campaign...and it strikes me as suspicious that after the mass claim idea was mass vetoed...he went quiet for a bit until trying to keep pressure up on freezie.

fos as spiesr

[everywhere116]

What comes off as scummy to me the more and more that I think about it...is the wide push early on for a mass claim. I just can't figure out in looking at it...with none of us knowing anything about the town/mafia nature of the roles that would be revealed...how that doesn't work to help the mafia. Spiesr was the one who initiated that campaign...and it strikes me as suspicious that after the mass claim idea was mass vetoed...he went quiet for a bit until trying to keep pressure up on freezie.

fos as spiesr

I like the reasoning, and agree that we should be going after the ones who pushed it....but that wasn't spieser. That was pmc. He was the driving force behind the mass claim, speiser was just giving tacit consideration like any rational player would. Looking back, it was pmc that first came up with the idea, the one that advocated for it, the one that disparaged edocsil for disagreeing with it, and then continued to argue it;s merits after it was clear that no one was going for it. What's even more strange is that he also intermittedly votes for freezie for inactivity. It was quite humorous to see the order of his posts on pages 7-8: Post giving support to claim plan, post giving further support to plan and accusing you of being a submariner despite having posted an hour before his post, you answer, he votes freezie. Then he disparages edocsil again, saying that the plan would give the town information, and in his next post votes freezie again. (This started the freezie BW which I, admittedly was a part of).

Vote PMC

[pmchugh]

I like the reasoning, and agree that we should be going after the ones who pushed it....but that wasn't spieser. That was pmc. He was the driving force behind the mass claim, speiser was just giving tacit consideration like any rational player would. Looking back, it was pmc that first came up with the idea, the one that advocated for it, the one that disparaged edocsil for disagreeing with it, and then continued to argue it;s merits after it was clear that no one was going for it.

So after everyone stops agreeing with it, a mafia member would continue the push and a town member wouldn't?

Why does willingness to get people to post their opinions on a topic even when an idea seems unlikely to happen appear scummy to you at all?

What's even more strange is that he also intermittedly votes for freezie for inactivity.

I take full credit for all of the posts freezie has made, all of them have been in direct answer to my questions. I was the only one on that wagon (that you were part of) that stated I did not even want a claim, I just wanted posts. Again I was opinion hunting to give us more to go on.

It was quite humorous to see the order of his posts on pages 7-8: Post giving support to claim plan, post giving further support to plan and accusing you (alt) of being a submariner despite having posted an hour before his post, you (alt) answer, he votes freezie. Then he disparages edocsil again, saying that the plan would give the town information, and in his next post votes freezie again. (This started the freezie BW which I, admittedly was a part of).

Vote PMC

Lol I go about scum hunting, pushing several people to post proper content and that is scummy? The bit in bold I already explained, it wasn't about the frequency he was posting with, it was simply that I asked him a direct question while he was clearly online and reading the mafia forums and he had not posted a response in an hour, is that not suspicious?


Yes I advocated mass claim (later changed to a few people claiming) and with very good reason.

1. There is a good chance scum picked roles which makes them immediately identifiable.
2. Knowing exactly what the power roles do is beneficial. If you have a JOAT, you can see his kill and ask about his investigation openly. This gives you a second information source (night actions as well as day talking/votes) on the most powerful roles within the game and more information is certainly to the towns advantage.
3. Outing them doesn't lose as much as it would in a normal game because mafia already know who the powerful players are.

If people want to disagree then fine but the only counter argument being given is that it may not find scum, I however reckon we would have found 2 or at least 1 scum on day one if we had done this.

Now, what would mafia gain from a mass claim? The only answer I can get is that they can kill the doc but he could be protected by a few different means. Honestly the gains for scum would be negligible.

In summary:
1. I pushed for people to post opinions.
2. I am aggressive, I always am.
3. I advocated claiming with very solid arguments and logic.
4. None of these things are scummy IMO.

[spiesr]

On the topic of a mass claim I recently had some thoughts about it that may make it a seem a little more favorable. In a manner sort of similar to the Rolegift mafia, if all players have their roles publicly known and are reporting their actions daily, then it becomes difficult for those players to use these powers in ways that obviously detrimental to the town. Lying about their actions would be significant risk with other roles around who could detect these lies. So, they will have to take actions that at least appear to benefit the town. For example, if the mafia drew the cop role, they could try lying and saying that them investigate one of their scum mate and got innocent, but the risk of getting caught if that player dies somehow would seem to make such an action unfavorable until the endgame. And lying and saying a town players came up scum would obviously screw them over. So, the only logical action action available to a scum player with the cop power would be to investigate random townies and truthfully report the result. Now, it would be preferable to have the role in the hands of an actual townies so that it might catch scum, but at least this way we force them to use it to clear townies if they want to hide their own alignment. I suppose they could try to diminish this by investigating the same person that the scum are killing that night so that the town doesn't actually gain any info, but if they do that repeatedly it would probably give them away. Whereas if all role aren't out and regularly reporting actions then they have a better chance of getting away with a lie, or simply not telling us their actions at all unless they are forced to claim.
The downside of all of this is that the scum can more easily choose their kill targets based on role. (Which they couldn't do very easily in Rolegift.) The counter to that is that we may catch a scum or two who got mafia only roles right away. Or, if they manage to fake-claim a role which wasn't taken, how long can they keep such a claim up if everyone id reporting all their actions daily?
I don't know about you guys, but I personally think that the game would actually be more fun this way...

[everywhere116]

I just got called into work, so I'll have to keep this brief. That worked in Rolegift because you never got the same role twice. Making all actions public worked because the mafia couldn't kill you to remove that role. Here, while we all chose our roles more or less, they are permanent. Outing the vig, doc, cop, etc. before we needed them they would be prime targets for the mafia, and if we revealed a bunch of them it would be impossible to protect all of them.

[pmchugh]

I just got called into work, so I'll have to keep this brief. That worked in Rolegift because you never got the same role twice. Making all actions public worked because the mafia couldn't kill you to remove that role. Here, while we all chose our roles more or less, they are permanent. Outing the vig, doc, cop, etc. before we needed them they would be prime targets for the mafia, and if we revealed a bunch of them it would be impossible to protect all of them.

What is the difference between the cop, vig, doc etc being out or not when mafia can see who got the top roles already?