Two Sides Mafia: Side A, Endgame, The Old Ways

[pancakemix]

Was this so hard?

International Maritime Organization is the first result.

[edocsil]

Was this so hard?

International Maritime Organization is the first result.

I know, I clicked it. First non-sponsor result is accurate.

[shieldgenerator7]

I clicked the link and clicked one of the entries (it was the pokelogy or something one) and got taken to a site with malicious content. JUst as a warning

[jonty125]

My position on Rodion hasn't changed. FOS shield for his post on the top of Page 8 I think.

Here are your first two posts supporting your vote:

vote Rodion. For instantly assuming there are no 3rd party players and asking some people effectively to give up one of the 2 games.

Take this scenario: I am town/mafia. I could say town/town and then suicide as town where I was town and if I came under pressure as mafia I could say, look I'm a truthful guy - I must be town.

So, your position seems to be that Rodion is scummy because:
1) His plan didn't allow for 3rd party players
2) He's asking some people (mafia) to give up one of the two games
3) You think somehow claiming T/T means you'll be cleared if you flip town in one game, which Rodion never said.

This is a very weak case, IMO. Did I miss anything?

Other than I can't see the gain of the plan, you got it all.

[Rodion]

So, your position seems to be that Rodion is scummy because:
1) His plan didn't allow for 3rd party players
2) He's asking some people (mafia) to give up one of the two games
3) You think somehow claiming T/T means you'll be cleared if you flip town in one game, which Rodion never said.

This is a very weak case, IMO. Did I miss anything?

4) Other than I can't see the gain of the plan, you got it all.

3 shouldn't even be considered as I never said that.
2 is only a point if you feel sorry for mafia players, which would make you highly scummy.
1 is what I tried to make Jonty understand about 6 pages ago that "devising a plan to find mafia is good regardless of whether the game has or does not have 3rd-parties", but I gave up in the middle of the argument because I lost faith in his intelligence.
4 only reassures myself that I made a good decision giving up in 1.

Like Safari said, I'm currently getting lynched because kids (VS and Jonty, perhaps you can add CMS5 here) at the family gathering picked a side and stuck with it.

[jonty125]

Yes I agree finding mafia is good but we should also be looking for 3rd party such as SK.

[Rodion]

Yes I agree finding mafia is good but we should also be looking for 3rd party such as SK.

[drunkmonkey]

My position on Rodion hasn't changed. FOS shield for his post on the top of Page 8 I think.

Here are your first two posts supporting your vote:

vote Rodion. For instantly assuming there are no 3rd party players and asking some people effectively to give up one of the 2 games.

Take this scenario: I am town/mafia. I could say town/town and then suicide as town where I was town and if I came under pressure as mafia I could say, look I'm a truthful guy - I must be town.

So, your position seems to be that Rodion is scummy because:
1) His plan didn't allow for 3rd party players
2) He's asking some people (mafia) to give up one of the two games
3) You think somehow claiming T/T means you'll be cleared if you flip town in one game, which Rodion never said.

This is a very weak case, IMO. Did I miss anything?

Other than I can't see the gain of the plan, you got it all.

I thought I made it quite obvious that parts 2 and 3 were awful reasons to cast a vote. 1 is shaky. I was expecting you to respond by clarifying the real reasons you voted. The last thing I expected was "yep, you got it - I think he's scummy because he wants mafia to concede and for something I'm pretending he said". I think I found the bandwagon case I'm ready to settle on.

vote jonty125

fastposted:

Yes I agree finding mafia is good but we should also be looking for 3rd party such as SK.

Are you kidding me? You agree finding mafia is good, but...? BUT??? I'm not the least bit concerned about SK until the night flavor suggests one. Mafia is priority #1 right now. If I could make the above vote bolder, I would.

[edocsil]

Are you kidding me? You agree finding mafia is good, but...? BUT??? I'm not the least bit concerned about SK until the night flavor suggests one. Mafia is priority #1 right now. If I could make the above vote bolder, I would.

I see nothing to indicate anything besides straight m vs t at this point. (D1 for gods sake) I agree, jonty is attempting to misdirect with his posts.

[pancakemix]

So, your position seems to be that Rodion is scummy because:
1) His plan didn't allow for 3rd party players
2) He's asking some people (mafia) to give up one of the two games
3) You think somehow claiming T/T means you'll be cleared if you flip town in one game, which Rodion never said.

This is a very weak case, IMO. Did I miss anything?

4) Other than I can't see the gain of the plan, you got it all.

3 shouldn't even be considered as I never said that.
2 is only a point if you feel sorry for mafia players, which would make you highly scummy.
1 is what I tried to make Jonty understand about 6 pages ago that "devising a plan to find mafia is good regardless of whether the game has or does not have 3rd-parties", but I gave up in the middle of the argument because I lost faith in his intelligence.
4 only reassures myself that I made a good decision giving up in 1.

Like Safari said, I'm currently getting lynched because kids (VS and Jonty, perhaps you can add CMS5 here) at the family gathering picked a side and stuck with it.

One COULD almost argue point 2, but there's no reason to feel sorry for someone who would take an offer so statistically bad for them it hurts.

Yes I agree finding mafia is good but we should also be looking for 3rd party such as SK.

Why should we be looking for them? Do you know something we don't?

unvote

[/]

The Official Vote Count

Rodion; 3 votes: Victor, jonty, CMS

Crazymilkshake; 2 votes: Rodion, soundman

jonty; 1 vote: drunkmonkey

Shieldgenerator; 1 vote: Safariguy

Two Days Left! remember lynches are forced unless you prevent them.

[jonty125]

Why should we be looking for them? Do you know something we don't?

No, but with no information from scenes yet we can't estimate how many killers we have so I'm trying to make sure we keep all paths open.

[Rodion]

I see nothing to indicate anything besides straight m vs t at this point. (D1 for gods sake) I agree, jonty is attempting to misdirect with his posts.

If you think he's attempting to misdirect, what does that tell you about Jonty's alignment?

@Jonty - drunkmonkey and Edocsil don't seem willing to plan for 3rd-parties until evidence suggests there is one. Are they suspicious in your eyes? Why (not)?

Soundman, Shield, New Guy, Milkshake, Clever, VS - anything you'd like to say?

[crazymilkshake5]

Well, if he is trying to misdirect, i would say that he is most likely mafia trying to draw attention away from the mafia,

About DM and Edocsil not willing to plan for third parties, I believe that in every mafia game you enter you should go in thinking that there are third parties and town and mafia.

That is what i have to say.

[Rodion]

Well, if he is trying to misdirect, i would say that he is most likely mafia trying to draw attention away from the mafia,

The question was not really adressed to you, but thanks for the input. You did use "if", though. Can you tell us whether you think he is trying to misdirect or not?

[crazymilkshake5]

I think that he was just making a statement, so no, i do not believe that he was trying to.

[Rodion]

I think that he was just making a statement, so no, i do not believe that he was trying to.

So after spending 3+ days without a single post, someone asks you if you have anything to say and you just:

a) answer an obvious question (obviously, trying to misdirect makes you more likely to be anti-town) that wasn't even adressed at you

b) "answer" a question (again not adressed at you) with a totally safe and unnecessary response ("we should always be prepared for everything"), not to mention the "answer" failed to adress the actual question, the question being "Jonty, are Monkey and Edocsil suspicious for not being willing to consider the existence of a 3rd-party before evidence is presented"?

So, summary:
1 - 3+ days without posting
2 - posts right after his name is mentioned
3 - decides to comment solely on obvious/unnecessary things

Way to prove you're not lurking, pal.

My vote is currently in CMS5, but it can just as easily go to Jonty (or, really, anyone else that I can vote to avoid my own lynch).

Lurkers, start posting (and, unlike CMS5, please try to make it relevant)!

[shieldgenerator7]

About this misdirection and jonty: I really don't see any evidence so far that there would be third-party players, but I wouldn't doubt / to include some. My first suspicions that stemmed from jonty's continually insisting there's third-party is that he is in one side, specifically SK. I have no other evidence of this so this is just a hunch I have. But then again I hunched that Ragian was DV in Power Role and got myself lynched, so I don't have much faith in my hunch right now.

I do feel that the majority of the people who opposed Rodion's gameplan are more than likely T/M. It is probable (assuming straigt up T vs. M) that half of us are T/M players, which would explain why the plan was so openly rejected. In fact, I'm wondering right now whether Rodion proposed the plan because it's a good plan or whether because suggesting such plan would expose the T/M players.
FOS at all players who opposed this plan.

That's all I got for now.

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

[crazymilkshake5]

Soundman, Shield, New Guy, Milkshake, Clever, VS - anything you'd like to say?

You Asked if i had anything id like to say, and just before you had said the quoted phrase, you had questions, so I felt like they were directed at me.

[new guy1]

I just got back home from working on a project with some friends, so far I am just confused. I lost many-a-brain cell trying to figure out how the Worlds connect, and I believe some roles can cross over to the opposite world. Im not sure, its just a hunch. As far as guilt goes, I am confused on it and currently dont think that Rodion has presented himself as scummier then I previously thought. I do not have anywhere to put my vote currently, as I dont see scummy behavior right now (just my opinion). I will reread and post if this changes, but if it does not change then I wont post about it again.

fastposted- That is a good point, Im sure it was just a misunderstanding.

[safariguy5]

Well, if he is trying to misdirect, i would say that he is most likely mafia trying to draw attention away from the mafia,

About DM and Edocsil not willing to plan for third parties, I believe that in every mafia game you enter you should go in thinking that there are third parties and town and mafia.

That is what i have to say.

Wow really? Every single game has third parties? I've modded games where there were no third party players and I've played in plenty where there weren't either. That seems to be an incredibly large leap considering its Day 1, which leads me to believe you know something the rest of us don't.

unvote vote crazymilkshake

[crazymilkshake5]

Wow safari, Really? I said that you should go in thinking that there are third parties, not that every game had third parties.
READ!

[safariguy5]

Wow safari, Really? I said that you should go in thinking that there are third parties, not that every game had third parties.
READ!

Why would I do that? Let's tick off the possible third party characters.

SKer-will be shown by multiple nightkills
Survivor-pretty low on the town threat list
Cult-Difficult to detect, but may have night flavor.
Jester/Lyncher-Not too important and should become clear at some point.

Give me a break, why would I assume third party in every game? Just because there are a few games where we do have third parties, it doesn't mean that I go into every game paranoid that there is an SKer/Cult. If there are third party players, that should become apparent after a few days. To go in already convinced that there are third party players is just over paranoid.

Let's look at some recently finished games shall we?

NBC- no third party
Office Mafia- no third party
Italian Style Mafia- no third party (2 mafia factions)

Not to mention all C9 and open setup games.

Your belief that there are third party players in this game has no backing, and frankly, I would be more interested in lynching mafia than I would third party because I'm pretty sure there are mafia in this game while third party players are less certain.

[Rodion]

Soundman, Shield, New Guy, Milkshake, Clever, VS - anything you'd like to say?

You Asked if i had anything id like to say, and just before you had said the quoted phrase, you had questions, so I felt like they were directed at me.

fastposted- That is a good point, Im sure it was just a misunderstanding.

@New Guy - This is growing into a game of severe misunderstandings, all of them coincidentally being made by players that vote me. Crazy, isn't it?

@Milkshake

The question right after Edocsil's quote was aimed at Edocsil.

The question preceeded by @Jonty was aimed at Jonty (just like I'm aiming this part of my post at you by writing @Milkshake).

The "anything you'd like to say?" question was an open one to several players, including you. It was your chance to, for instance:
a) comment on DM's case on Jonty
b) comment on Saf's case on Shield
c) realize that if nothing changed I'd be lynched tomorrow and voice your will to hear my claim

Basically, your chance to take a stance on the game after being absent for so many days. Instead you decided to answer a rhetorical question aimed at Edocsil and fail to answer a question aimed at Jonty.

Oh, the misunderstandings...

[soundman]

I just keep getting the sense that CMS is trying to look townish by answering easy questions that really don't add substance to the game. I also don't see how he could have misunderstood who the question was addressed to. It clearly showed that Edocsil was the intended recipient. The one thing I'm sure of is Rodion should not be lynched. Through all this I'm getting the sense that he is town and not mafia.