Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[Some7hingCLEVER]

*chuckles* The two of you are missing the point, intentionally most likely. You're still arguing from the perspective that any one post defending a scum damns a player and/or implies a connection. It's the long term trend, not the individual data point that matters in my case. The point is that the three of you, including shield, never attacked each other and never bothered to defend anyone unless it was one of you who was being attacked. And now that we know shield to be scum, that implicates all of you.

Fastpost quote:

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Uhh...yeah. The mafia get a kill regardless of the roles that they have.

Okay number 1, let me address your dying case. CLEVER gave several posts that linked a chain of players. If you want to say its the whole trend, then I will go ahead and say that:
CLEVER posted a sequence of players that, under your logic, can be connected which includes you and dazza. By doing this, the fact you both arguing against us like this in turn gives it a whole knew trend of you two defending 1 case that also, in the end, links back to SG7 as well. By calling us scum, you call yourself scum.

Now to address the red highlighted part. Havent we been wondering if Mafia get their own kill regardless? I do recall that being the question of several players. Please riddle me this, how exactly do you KNOW? Because last time I checked, though it is likely they do, we cant confirm it. There are 3 players in this game that can take a shot. Vig, 1 shot governor, and JOAT. So you, in general, can confirm something that we arent quite sure about. What inside info do you have that we dont?

You are really missing the point. The case put against you is connecting the 3 of you. 1 of which we lynched and was scum. You linking everyone else in the game is just stupid and not doing yourself any favours.

Also the people you are trying to connect were all people pushing for the SG7 lynch so are most likely to be town here.

Also I asked in the thread if mafia get 2 kills if they got the Vig. and Rodion confirmed they would. This is how we KNOW.

Fastposted

And again. Thanks for finding that quote. I couldn't be arsed

ok well sir the case against me is that you connected three of us one who was scum....woah woah woah I think I my case against YOU is that I connected FOUR of you and one flipped scum ...hmmm sounds pretty much the same right? and last time I checked there 4 mafia in this game not three

[drunkmonkey]

I've been sick the past few days, and literally just read through 34 pages this morning. I've noted my suspicions on a couple players, but I need a break before I can go back and actually compile info on them. Expect a post tomorrow at the very latest.

[dazza2008]

*chuckles* The two of you are missing the point, intentionally most likely. You're still arguing from the perspective that any one post defending a scum damns a player and/or implies a connection. It's the long term trend, not the individual data point that matters in my case. The point is that the three of you, including shield, never attacked each other and never bothered to defend anyone unless it was one of you who was being attacked. And now that we know shield to be scum, that implicates all of you.

Fastpost quote:

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Uhh...yeah. The mafia get a kill regardless of the roles that they have.

Okay number 1, let me address your dying case. CLEVER gave several posts that linked a chain of players. If you want to say its the whole trend, then I will go ahead and say that:
CLEVER posted a sequence of players that, under your logic, can be connected which includes you and dazza. By doing this, the fact you both arguing against us like this in turn gives it a whole knew trend of you two defending 1 case that also, in the end, links back to SG7 as well. By calling us scum, you call yourself scum.

Now to address the red highlighted part. Havent we been wondering if Mafia get their own kill regardless? I do recall that being the question of several players. Please riddle me this, how exactly do you KNOW? Because last time I checked, though it is likely they do, we cant confirm it. There are 3 players in this game that can take a shot. Vig, 1 shot governor, and JOAT. So you, in general, can confirm something that we arent quite sure about. What inside info do you have that we dont?

You are really missing the point. The case put against you is connecting the 3 of you. 1 of which we lynched and was scum. You linking everyone else in the game is just stupid and not doing yourself any favours.

Also the people you are trying to connect were all people pushing for the SG7 lynch so are most likely to be town here.

Also I asked in the thread if mafia get 2 kills if they got the Vig. and Rodion confirmed they would. This is how we KNOW.

Fastposted

And again. Thanks for finding that quote. I couldn't be arsed

ok well sir the case against me is that you connected three of us one who was scum....woah woah woah I think I my case against YOU is that I connected FOUR of you and one flipped scum ...hmmm sounds pretty much the same right? and last time I checked there 4 mafia in this game not three

So you are connecting me to SG7? He is the only confirmed scumbag in this game and I pushed for his lynch. Why would I do that if he was a scum-mate? I know scum will often vote other scum but look at where I did vote and I kept pushing for the lynch. Would I do that as scum?

[ghostly447]

Would I connect myself to him? Your defense is as strong as mine. I can't tell you if you would, I have seen scum throw scum under the bus being the head of the case.

[dazza2008]

Would I connect myself to him? Your defense is as strong as mine. I can't tell you if you would, I have seen scum throw scum under the bus being the head of the case.

You've seen that done on day 1 before? I'd like to see where. I would say you are right but not for a day 1. Maybe in the later stages when someone is obviously been caught as scum.

[edocsil]

I argued every point of his case. Now I will address this connecting people.

View the Hectic Eclectic game where I connected SW and Chap. They both turned out to have an alternate win condition of killing each other. YOU CANT CONNECT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS AND EXPECT GOOD EVIDENCE TO COME OF IT.

This is a logical fallacy. I don't need to explain why this incorrect, but I will anyhow. Ghost logic ~ I fucked up, ergo everyone is a fuckup.

Now to address the red highlighted part. Havent we been wondering if Mafia get their own kill regardless? I do recall that being the question of several players. Please riddle me this, how exactly do you KNOW? Because last time I checked, though it is likely they do, we cant confirm it. There are 3 players in this game that can take a shot. Vig, 1 shot governor, and JOAT. So you, in general, can confirm something that we arent quite sure about. What inside info do you have that we dont?

Are you kidding? This attack totally discredits your defense. Scum have a kill. Usually it is useable by all the scum, occasionally only the GF. The scum would be totally boned if they didn't get the vig role.

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

Your still missing the wide view and attacking the small points.


You have buddied like crazy with SG7 and CLEVER, and to a lesser extent IMO Daza. Your logic against the case is insufficient and you associate again fairly tightly with the trio and that is more critical in my eyes even then earlier buddying. Vote Ghostly

Fastpost, your comment on wagon leader of scum= scum is full of fail.

[ghostly447]

Request replacement. After going back and reading some of my posts I must step down from this game and will not be posting anymore. Good luck to all if the mod has questions he can mail me and I will explain the whole thing to him.

[everywhere116]

[edocsil]

[spiesr]

Also, shield, you can't say anything related to the game.

yeah I know but it was clarifying something that everyone should already know so I thought it was alright. I'll shut up till endgame now. (tis gonna be so ahrd)

But you see, deliberately presenting false information in the hopes that nobody notices it is false is a vlaid, if perhaps tactically unsound, strategy. Accordingly, people who are dead or not in the game correcting misinformation is something that should never be allowed to happen.

You are really missing the point. The case put against you is connecting the 3 of you. 1 of which we lynched and was scum. You linking everyone else in the game is just stupid and not doing yourself any favours.

Also the people you are trying to connect were all people pushing for the SG7 lynch so are most likely to be town here.

Now you are missing ghostly's point. He isn't, at least from my point of view, saying that he has found connections intimidating that all of these people are scum. Rather he is attempting to make the argument that since you can find connections between most any players in a game that you can't ever(?) use such connections as real evidence against those players.

ok well sir the case against me is that you connected three of us one who was scum....woah woah woah I think I my case against YOU is that I connected FOUR of you and one flipped scum ...hmmm sounds pretty much the same right? and last time I checked there 4 mafia in this game not three

Not exactly, everywhere's case makes some sort of sense and has much more bulk to it due to the greater pattern of posts. Your hypothetical case sounds like someone who doesn't really understand how this all works is grasping at straws. Also, the fact the this case would only be able to connect three of the four scum in the game in no way makes less valid. Trying to tie in a fourth player when there doesn't currently appear to be enough evidence to support that connection would only weaken the case.

Would I connect myself to him? Your defense is as strong as mine. I can't tell you if you would, I have seen scum throw scum under the bus being the head of the case.

You've seen that done on day 1 before? I'd like to see where. I would say you are right but not for a day 1. Maybe in the later stages when someone is obviously been caught as scum.

This is a particular case though. I personally think that if Shield was my scum partner and I thought that I would be able to get a significant amount of town credibility by leading a case that results in his day 1 lynch I would at the very least strongly consider the possibility. Sometimes the reward can be worth the risk. Especially if your partner is the sort of player who will be eventually lynched anyway, and who may make the mistake of tying himself to you if left alive too long.

View the Hectic Eclectic game where I connected SW and Chap. They both turned out to have an alternate win condition of killing each other. YOU CANT CONNECT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS AND EXPECT GOOD EVIDENCE TO COME OF IT.

One key difference here is that Strikewolf is significantly more experiance and skillful than Shield and SomethingClever. Any connections the Strike makes with one of his partners will likely have been thought out somewhat, at the very least an he would make an attempt to gauge how much connection would be too much. I can't confidently say that Shield and SomethingClever would exercise the same subtlety.

What comes off as scummy to me the more and more that I think about it...is the wide push early on for a mass claim. I just can't figure out in looking at it...with none of us knowing anything about the town/mafia nature of the roles that would be revealed...how that doesn't work to help the mafia. Spiesr was the one who initiated that campaign...and it strikes me as suspicious that after the mass claim idea was mass vetoed...he went quiet for a bit until trying to keep pressure up on freezie. fos as spiesr

I like the reasoning, and agree that we should be going after the ones who pushed it....but that wasn't spieser. That was pmc. He was the driving force behind the mass claim, speiser was just giving tacit consideration like any rational player would. Looking back, it was pmc that first came up with the idea, the one that advocated for it, the one that disparaged edocsil for disagreeing with it, and then continued to argue it;s merits after it was clear that no one was going for it. What's even more strange is that he also intermittedly votes for freezie for inactivity. It was quite humorous to see the order of his posts on pages 7-8: Post giving support to claim plan, post giving further support to plan and accusing you of being a submariner despite having posted an hour before his post, you answer, he votes freezie. Then he disparages edocsil again, saying that the plan would give the town information, and in his next post votes freezie again. (This started the freezie BW which I, admittedly was a part of).

Vote PMC

woah now you are connected to him!

What is the difference between the cop, vig, doc etc being out or not when mafia can see who got the top roles already?

The people who drafted first my or may not have actually ended up with roles like cop, doc ect. Everyone has thier own priorities for which roles they would have put at the top of their list. For example, I was placed near the bottom of the draft and still got the my first choice of role. That, and knowing exactly which is which would be at least somewhat better (for the mafia) than just vaguely knowing who likely has a powerful role.

I agree. Everyone didn't have to pick the most powerful roles. They could have picked a role they just like or 1 they have never played as before.

woah now daz is connected to spiesr?

I don't see why you guys think L-3 is significant it is not exactly danger territory. What is significant is that he has seemed very eager to "look" townie by just hopping on the latest wagon and then quickly unvoting purely due to the popularity of the options.

Agreed.

I really don't have much else to add... I'll take a jgordon backseat and wait for scumslips

Or to try to avoid dropping any of your own?

connected to pmc?...your logic still looking good?

Ah, I like your idea pmc. I didn't think of it that way. So are you saying mafia would have chosen 1 role from each of those groups?

oh and the mafia player connecting himself to pmc who is connected to spiesr who is connected to daz?
so you can keep your case on me for being connected but just understand that my case just became so much stronger

Posts as poorly thought out as this one actually have a net negative effect on your defense.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Sorry for the confusion daz I wasnt saying your scum im saying that merely connecting people cause they have the same views is bull shit ...im just proving my point

[dazza2008]

Sorry for the confusion daz I wasnt saying your scum im saying that merely connecting people cause they have the same views is bull shit ...im just proving my point

Cheers. I disagree though. Often it is the only way to catch scum. What if the night actions give is no useful information? We need something to go on and people defending a confimed scumbag is something worth following up.

I agree that just connecting people is bullshit but this case is that you are connected AND sg7 was scum.

[Rodion]

Also, shield, you can't say anything related to the game.

yeah I know but it was clarifying something that everyone should already know so I thought it was alright. I'll shut up till endgame now. (tis gonna be so ahrd)

But you see, deliberately presenting false information in the hopes that nobody notices it is false is a vlaid, if perhaps tactically unsound, strategy. Accordingly, people who are dead or not in the game correcting misinformation is something that should never be allowed to happen.

This time I'll just assume that one of the living players would have interfered explaining what a 1-shot governor could do (prevent a lynch after a hammer had been cast - once) and not issue any punishments. If I see a dead player interfere in a way I consider meaningful in the future, I could go as far as modkilling one of their (or multiple) teammates, but I hope that won't be necessary.

Ghostly, PM sent.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Sorry for the confusion daz I wasnt saying your scum im saying that merely connecting people cause they have the same views is bull shit ...im just proving my point

Cheers. I disagree though. Often it is the only way to catch scum. What if the night actions give is no useful information? We need something to go on and people defending a confimed scumbag is something worth following up.

I agree that just connecting people is bullshit but this case is that you are connected AND sg7 was scum.

well thats something I partially agree on ...i only agreed with ghostly cause the stuff he said made sense...i dont think I once said "ya sg7 I agree with you" and if i did its caude i believed he was town and im also sure I didn't vote for him... my point is that your saying im connected to him through other players

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ok so you saying that that wouldnt happen on day one...how do you know? I mean a mafia could do exactly that and then say exactly what you did to defend themselves...it would be a risky strategy but a strategy none the less

[dazza2008]

Sorry for the confusion daz I wasnt saying your scum im saying that merely connecting people cause they have the same views is bull shit ...im just proving my point

Cheers. I disagree though. Often it is the only way to catch scum. What if the night actions give is no useful information? We need something to go on and people defending a confimed scumbag is something worth following up.

I agree that just connecting people is bullshit but this case is that you are connected AND sg7 was scum.

well thats something I partially agree on ...i only agreed with ghostly cause the stuff he said made sense...i dont think I once said "ya sg7 I agree with you" and if i did its caude i believed he was town and im also sure I didn't vote for him... my point is that your saying im connected to him through other players

You could be right. I will read back through.

[pmchugh]

Lol I completely made it up, was worth a try

They way you made the post where you asked him made it pretty obvious that you were faking it. So, I don't know if anything was even gained by doing so, as I am pretty sure nagerous could see through it too.

Yeah true, I was too careful about some idiot ccing me.

Looks like everywhere beat me to my case on clever. Exactly what I had in mind. unvote vote ghostly, if he is mafia we get clever tomorrow.

Request replacement. After going back and reading some of my posts I must step down from this game and will not be posting anymore. Good luck to all if the mod has questions he can mail me and I will explain the whole thing to him.

Whatttt? Because of your previous posts? As far as I can see, you were just playing a game of mafia so there is no reason to quit except....

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Except what?

[drunkmonkey]

Except what?

I think he's commenting on the fact that this:

Request replacement. After going back and reading some of my posts I must step down from this game and will not be posting anymore. Good luck to all if the mod has questions he can mail me and I will explain the whole thing to him.

Sounds a lot like "I was re-reading my posts, and realized I screwed up so badly there's no chance to recover. I quit."

Ghostly - If I'm wrong, or if you have any sympathy for your replacement, can you clarify this statement?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Well the fact that he has to talk to the mod about it probably means he can't say it so he may have given away to much info

[Rodion]

Well the fact that he has to talk to the mod about it probably means he can't say it so he may have given away to much info

I'll update you all as soon as I can.

[edocsil]

Yeah that translates to hiding something to me. I say lynch.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Not defending him (cause we all know what happened last time) did you ever think that if he does explain it may ruin the game for us?

[dazza2008]

Not defending him (cause we all know what happened last time) did you ever think that if he does explain it may ruin the game for us?

I can't see at all what it can be though. I am also tempted to just lynch him.

[drunkmonkey]

I'd like to hear Rodion's "update" before we rush to anything.