Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[ghostly447]

Since alt has now stated that he investigated me, it somewhat pits me on his side no matter how you look at it, but I will continue to go with an unbiased approach throughout.

Not really, like pmc said:

Also on ghostly, you must recognize that alt is dead today or tomorrow if he is in fact mafia, why would he inno his partner? That seems risky.

We can't really make any solid determinations on whether or not Alt would list on innocent as his investigation in his fake claim. It is hard to say if we would do so, but certainly doing so does not seem any more likely than the reverse. Err, I seem to have wandered there, but my point is: If you (ghostly) end up coming down on Alt's side in this decision today, it had better well be based on who you really think is scum out of the two, and not based on Alt have claimed an investigation on you and what that would mean for your future survivability.

I had not yet read the post. Typed it up, went to dinner. Sorry about that.

[everywhere116]

Or if you are lying, then it there could be a number of possibilities, just off the top of my head, nag, edoc, daz, and a few others that you cleared.

Nah, you throw out information brought forward by scum. It's contaminated with too much WIFOM to be useful.

Also, I just realized something. If alt is telling the truth, then this means that I was wrong about ghostly being scum. This is impossible. I CANNOT ACCEPT THAT!!! RRAAAAAA!!!!

[Rodion]

Simplified vote count

ghostly447 - edocsil, nagerous
alt1978 - Djfireside
Djfireside - alt1978, ghostly447, soundman, everywhere116 (L-3)

Not voting: pmchugh, dazza2008, some7hing clever, spiesr, drunkmonkey

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

If I missed your vote, please let me know and post it in red for future reference.

[edocsil]

Unvote Vote DJ looks like that's the pick.

[spiesr]

Unvote Vote DJ looks like that's the pick.

Going to explain your personal reasons for this decision, or are we just to assume that you are simply basing it on who has more votes...

[ghostly447]

FOS Edoc for that.

[edocsil]

Do I really? I have stated why I think Alt is less suspicious then DJ earlier. Should i go against my own argument and champion a counter case vs Alt? How would that be productive? how would that help the town?

[pmchugh]

Blarg, shit show.

DJ, you realize you are calling the doublevoter a cheater? No one is allowed to talk during the day. So now we have to hang the cop or the joat, all assuming the vig isn't lying. IMO alt is slightly less scummy, as he had to go first and guess right, it would have been easier to do a CC. Small lead in my mind though. Good logic could increase your odds of guessing right, depending on what pick you got vs you list position. Dunno what to think of the cop/ghostly stuff.

Also, ragian is conveniently dead. Convenient that DJ does not confirm a townie.

Instead of lashing out ya coulda quoted your reasons.

Edoc voting dj actually makes me worry, I am highly suspicious of edoc at the moment.

[edocsil]

Blarg, shit show.

DJ, you realize you are calling the doublevoter a cheater? No one is allowed to talk during the day. So now we have to hang the cop or the joat, all assuming the vig isn't lying. IMO alt is slightly less scummy, as he had to go first and guess right, it would have been easier to do a CC. Small lead in my mind though. Good logic could increase your odds of guessing right, depending on what pick you got vs you list position. Dunno what to think of the cop/ghostly stuff.

Also, ragian is conveniently dead. Convenient that DJ does not confirm a townie.

Instead of lashing out ya coulda quoted your reasons.

Edoc voting dj actually makes me worry, I am highly suspicious of edoc at the moment.

Meh, I expect to not need to quote something that was said on the last page, more or less for this reason. It checks to see who is paying attention and who is just skimming the last page.

Also lashing out? Hardly. I have great potential to be a dick at times, and that certainly wasn't one of them. Also, you completely ignored my questions pmc, they were not aimed at you explicitly, but I expected any who further desired to call me scummy would have dealt with them.

Should I go against my own argument and champion a counter case vs Alt? How would that be productive? How would that help the town?

What gain or benefit does the town get from me splitting the vote here? I think DJ is the more scummy of the two, and we MUST hang one of them today. If you desire to level suspicions at me, answer that.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Ill take first. Then I have to get back to work cause Ive been on this too much today.

(3) everywhere116 -- Based on their action in the lynch of D1 and what I gathered from their softclaims I think they are clean.

(9) ghostly447 -- They jumped quickly through the ranks within the last few posts. I thought they did well keeping the heat off of them to a point based on my research into ALT, I kept finding links back to ghostly. It grew worse once he said that he investigated him. I am seriously torn with ghostly now. I know that ALT is lying which makes my view right now unique because I have to view everything he says as a lie. Initally when ghostly came out with his list I didnt think anything of it but now pairing it with what I know now seems a bit strange and watching ALT try to protect him in subtle ways throughout day 2, though sparse, and the kicker was the list. Alt and clever were cleared by him and clever I can understand cause they were paired and both being hit so I can take the commrade approach but ALT was nowhere near that and was suspected by ghostly but then cleared. The kicker of it all is if I was going to fake claim, I would not choose someone who was mafia with me for that because it will come back to bite you in the butt later and lose the game. So did ALT mess up there and out his collegue thinking his claim would hold and the cop would stay quiet and try to save him? If I had to make a choice I would say Scum. Didnt vote day 1 and was "shocked" that he came up mafia.

(8) Some7hingCLEVER -- seems to have disappeared into the void. Came off a bit scummy and led part of my list for checking into. Based on limited activity I tend to still think they are worth watching and wouldnt be surprised if they popped mafia. Nothing concrete of late. Didnt vote day 1

(3) pmchugh -- Helped lead the hunt for Vig and I guess in turn JOAT. Caught a bit of a scum on him when he dropped off of ghostly but based on the fact that he went for the vig was redeeming. Appeared to have town as best interest and definately was working towards my direction so I wrote them off as okay.

(5) edocsil -- Played more pushy to get people pinned up and pushed the issues dont remember any scum tells but alot of random remarks but nothing struck me off.

(5) nagerous -- Caught a bit of scummy from day 1 but nothing too harsh and day 2 I dont really remember much of them other than a few quips. Not really up on them so could be either or but doesnt strike me badly at least

(3) dazza2008 -- More over helping in the scum hunt and while was accused of a few scum tells, I never really caught anything from them and in reading back over appears to be clean in my book as my logic fits theirs and cant really find anything on them.

(0) Djfireside -- I'm me. The Fuzz of the town. Unfortunately youll see it soon enough.

(3) spiesr -- Overall playing the helpful role and stirring the pot occassionaly but moreover staying pretty much neutral but I have nothing against them and dont really see them scummy now. Was one of the early ones on SG7.

(5) drunkmonkey -- Proved their point showing they could change the vote. Based on corrective points given I will take they are who they say they are. Why town would choose that as a principle role I dunno but thats not my choice or theirs. Gave me a
few questionable points but im okay with them.

(4) soundman -- claimed vig, which has not been debunked and based on what would have occured tonight would have given me better feeling on them but I will go with they are watched because they have to answer for their actions

(10) alt1978 -- had nothing on them until they claimed my role as I was pushing towards drunk and thought they were just inactive floating and giving them benefit of the doubt on claiming cause they were the top. However once my role popped up, everything changed and somehow it all fell into place. You know my thoughts on this one if not... well stop skimming?!? Didnt vote day 1


The more I pull it together the more they all look the part.

People who didnt vote day 1,

ghostly447, Some7hingCLEVER, Ragian, alt1978.

All 3 of my top thoughts together in a list and my target for investigation.

From my list it has to go

ALt -- cause he is not the cop and based on logic scum.

ghostly -- too many ties to Alt so takes my second rung. Despite my thought that someone wouldnt out their teammate I cant help but tie all the pieces together and think that ALT thought he would get away with the cop claim and clear ghostly enough that people would have forgot it was him who said it.

clever -- the link from the first day is the reason he stays and he has hit the showers for whatever reason but remains a distant third as no new news means you are still paying for your old deeds and since noone else has given me much and I was so focused on the joat/vig hunt, you stick.

sorry for my inactivity ill post something in the vacation thread explaining why i was inactive (easier than copying and pasting in every one of my games) but im back from the "showers" but i have a quick question. what would it matter if i didnt vote day 1. im really not that into joke votes and if i do joke vote i take it off when things get serious.

lol i love this. he has connections to alt and since alt wouldnt throw his scummate (if thats the case) under the bus. so since im connected to ghostly does that mean im good to this is obvioulsy a joke dont take it to serious

[Djfireside]

If you would give me the chance to make a "final" statement before nailed me up I think I have a good point to make that may finally help my case.

[drunkmonkey]

I'm ready to hammer DJ. I've read over both of their posts countless times, and I can't find where one slipped up much more than the other. I think it's more plausible that DJ faked his counter-claim than Alt trying to out the cop, and it just happened to be DJ. I'll allow for final arguments before throwing the hammer.

fastposted by DJ begging for his life

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I'm ready to hammer DJ. I've read over both of their posts countless times, and I can't find where one slipped up much more than the other. I think it's more plausible that DJ faked his counter-claim than Alt trying to out the cop, and it just happened to be DJ. I'll allow for final arguments before throwing the hammer.

fastposted by DJ begging for his life

well is he at l-1 if so someone might wanna unvote so we can actually hear his final statements

[dazza2008]

He's at L-2. It is on the last page. Is it that hard to check?

I'll let him speak but I am finding him the scummier of the 2 just now.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

He's at L-2. It is on the last page. Is it that hard to check?

I'll let him speak but I am finding him the scummier of the 2 just now.

no but im sick/lazy and thought it was l-2 but wasnt sure .and i knew you would post saying the answer so i just had to wait

[dazza2008]

He's at L-2. It is on the last page. Is it that hard to check?

I'll let him speak but I am finding him the scummier of the 2 just now.

no but im sick/lazy and thought it was l-2 but wasnt sure .and i knew you would post saying the answer so i just had to wait

Hope you get better soon.

I might stop playing mafia. Everyone is getting sick.

[Djfireside]

Dj nice list although your scum picks seem rather too easy to me.

The more I pull it together the more they all look the part.

People who didnt vote day 1,

ghostly447, Some7hingCLEVER, Ragian, alt1978.

All 3 of my top thoughts together in a list and my target for investigation.

This is misleading, for a start the VC was wrong both clever and ghostly were voting for nag. Also you ignore those who had votes on people other than shield, including yourself. In fact you went very quiet around the time he got lynched.

Also on ghostly, you must recognize that alt is dead today or tomorrow if he is in fact mafia, why would he inno his partner? That seems risky.

I was voting for soundman and when the lynch came up I was active in the conversation at the end and would have hammer it out but based on what Alt claimed on the bomb and everywhere's soft claim I stated he should take it in case alt was right.

I woudl actually put everywhere on the hammer list as well but not just because he came out and stated that he knew he was wrong but with what everyone is thinking with the bomb would make a good choice to do it based on what he stated earlier about his role not being there.

Ill make my final statement as it seems I am just talking in circles here so Ill put my final thoughts out there and see what happens.

1) Push against JOAT / Vig
-- I took this as a welcome change when it was suggested as I had information and was trying to keep pushing it especially once it was determined it was the JOAT. I put all my information out there and put myself on the line for it. When we determined who the JOAT was, he claimed before I could but claimed my role. I was happy he claimed my role because I could debunk it and if I claimed first, he just would have claimed something else and I could have easily kept on Drunkmonkey like I was but instantly flipped to Alt.

2) My Scum list is too obvious
-- Look at it from my position. Take the fact that ALT is scum. Once you do that, then look at all the points that have occured between him and SG and ghostly

-- tried to draw attention away from SG and then when that failed suggested that SG could be the bomb. This was once SG was up in arms and he stayed on the side just the same but was dropping in points to be scared of him.

-- Ghostly while chasing ALT, all of sudden thinks he is clean. Not the other way around but ghostly thought ALT was clean. Ghostly already was acting strange and came out scum hitting everyone but someone who he supposed was against day 1 is now all of a sudden clean?

-- You cant fault me for listing clever cause everyone has suspicions and based on the link between ghostly and clever and the link between Alt and ghostly. Plus with his joke comment (which always has a bit of truth) is now playing that he is clean on the same fact that ghostly is clean.

Can you really say that my list is suspect if you remove all other things and just look at ALT as guilty. It ties together too well unfortunately.

3) My roles and who I checked out.
-- I played the roles I wanted to play. It was a different game and listed them in various ways, some to help town and some to play something new. I choose ragian for a few reasons and in hind sight prob should have gone with clever as the safe pick but just had a thought on ragian.

4) Overall I brought this case on myself and Ill put some scenarios showing what could happen and knowing no matter what happens Im pretty much dead.
If you ask yourself why I would commit suicide for nothing and to possibly pull out a cop when I still had a good chance to deflect and the pressure was not on me



Lets go through a few scenarios on how this could all play out. Before I get all the there are many more, I know but im at work and cant go into all of them just pulled these up as they are the base ones. Go from there

These two are constants for reference

Soundman - (Claimed Vig)
Ghostly - (Claimed Roleblocker)

1 -- Im lying and ALT is telling the truth and you decide to lynch me

Djfireside - (Mafia JOAT) -- Lynched
ALT - (Town Cop) -- Mafia Killed


Mafia JOAT lynch, Mafia kills cop.


2 -- Im lying and ALT is telling the truth and you decide to lynch ALT

Djfireside - (Mafia JOAT) -- Night killed
ALT - (Town Cop) -- Lynched

ALT is lynched, I am night killed by Soundman, mafia go for someone else.

Town Cop / Mafia JOAT / Random Townie dead.


3 -- Im telling the truth and I get lynched and ghostly is actually scum
Djfireside - (Town Cop) -- Lynched
ALT - (MAFIA JOAT) -- Alive

Town Cop Lynched. Soundmand Roleblocked by Ghostly and killed by mafia

Vig dead, Cop dead.


4 -- Im telling the truth and lynch ALT
Djfireside - (Town Cop) -- Mafia Killed
ALT - (MAFIA JOAT) -- Lynched

Town Cop Dead. Mafia JOAT dead Soundman is free to do whatever and ghostly can roleblocked wherever

JOAT dead, Cop dead.


I am the cop and with people instantly jumping on with ALT and swinging the apparent Mob that way I may be up the creek with no paddle based on mob mentality

However give me the point of at least seeing it from my point of view and looking at it as though ALT is guilty. and please look at it as I were guilty.

I havent had a single person defend me yet in this game or trying to claim im good, I got one stating there was no read but the same person who thought ALT had something to hide day 1 loved them day 2.

I cant do anything but list out everything I can in hopes you may see my point and if not, when Im dead you can look back and review what I saw and maybe get a better bearing.

Ill keep checking and adding new points if found and defending but unless prompted wont make these long post of everything again cause its all there, at least 3 times and alot to read.

[Djfireside]

And to note, which I didnt sorry, PMC states my scum picks are too easy but ghostly went to L-1 before you pulled your votes on him and went another way. You also said they could very well be scum but need to find the vig. So everyone was fine with him being scum but now I claim someone I know to be lying scum and someone who is tied to him as scum who everyone thought was scum to begin with and its to easy?

At this point of reading everyones posts Im dead but you have grown rather jumpy of late and claiming mine are too obvious and pulling everyone in different directions I have to say you are looking worse and worse. Especially since the vig turned town. When I die, please cover Soundman, youll need them.

Just noting while Im still alive.

[pmchugh]

Alt I am still waiting on your list of players.

Does anyone have meta on dj? Where was all this before? You barely posted for weeks and as soon as the pressure is on you, you start posting a lot of sense and some decent arguments. Anyway, there are a lot of dangers with using the vig in your scenarios, if mafia have the busdriver they can f*ck that right up and if they are lucky get him lynched too.

Blarg, shit show.

DJ, you realize you are calling the doublevoter a cheater? No one is allowed to talk during the day. So now we have to hang the cop or the joat, all assuming the vig isn't lying. IMO alt is slightly less scummy, as he had to go first and guess right, it would have been easier to do a CC. Small lead in my mind though. Good logic could increase your odds of guessing right, depending on what pick you got vs you list position. Dunno what to think of the cop/ghostly stuff.

Also, ragian is conveniently dead. Convenient that DJ does not confirm a townie.

Instead of lashing out ya coulda quoted your reasons.

Edoc voting dj actually makes me worry, I am highly suspicious of edoc at the moment.

Meh, I expect to not need to quote something that was said on the last page, more or less for this reason. It checks to see who is paying attention and who is just skimming the last page.

Also lashing out? Hardly. I have great potential to be a dick at times, and that certainly wasn't one of them. Also, you completely ignored my questions pmc, they were not aimed at you explicitly, but I expected any who further desired to call me scummy would have dealt with them.

Should I go against my own argument and champion a counter case vs Alt? How would that be productive? How would that help the town?

What gain or benefit does the town get from me splitting the vote here? I think DJ is the more scummy of the two, and we MUST hang one of them today. If you desire to level suspicions at me, answer that.

The questions don't make sense to me. I didn't like you taking our side as I find you suspicious, this makes me wonder why you are voting with me and if I am voting wrongly. I don't see how your questions are relevant to my point of view.

[Rodion]

Simplified vote count

ghostly447 - nagerous
alt1978 - Djfireside
Djfireside - alt1978, ghostly447, soundman, everywhere116, edocsil (L-2)

Not voting: pmchugh, dazza2008, some7hing clever, spiesr, drunkmonkey

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

If I missed your vote, please let me know and post it in red for future reference.

[nagerous]

Apologies for the inactivity, I have finished work for the week now so I hope to be a little more involved. I have mostly stayed out of this discussion as I am finding it hard to call between alt and dj - the wagon is pushing towards dj's way but I am not wholly convinced- particularly by ghostly's allegiance with alt.

[drunkmonkey]

I was leaning toward hammering DJ, mainly because I couldn't pick out the liar, and I figured if we missed today, we'd get the other tonight or tomorrow. But re-reading and re-reading posts, I'm starting to lean toward alt again. I need to gather some info and post my thoughts later.

[Djfireside]

I agree the busdriver does make the situations a bit worse. Based on the odds I would hope town grabbed it but nothing is for certain and I was going over it in my head alot and figured may be a good thing to put out there for other people to comment on.

I had the JOAT hunt plan since I noticed I didnt get it but didnt want to out it them if it was friendly but when double kill came I knew I should try to push it. I wasnt getting much traction but The instant it was deemed the JOAT was the second kill I went to work. it got narrowed down and Once ALT claimed cop and since one of the top two had to be JOAT and a liar beats a demonstration of power, I did my research and with knowing now that he was scum, the rest of the information just kept pouring out and linking up. I did a search of this forum for everything he did and went through each part and found everything I listed. Then followed ghostly and did the same. All I needed was that first part.

[alt1978]

I am swamped in some clan business right now...unfortunately none of it pleasant.
I have not put out a full list...give me the afternoon.

Dj made some good points using the "assume alt is guilty" perspective. Taking that line of reasoning...why in the world if I was mafia would I stick my neck out for ghostly?

If he was scum...he was past the point of no return. Linking myself with him would be suicidal. If ghoshtly flipped scum...i would have just made myself prime suspect number one. In fact...there was a point where ghostly was l-1 when I could have thrown the hammer while pmc was playing his hot and cold game of chicken. when ghostly flipped town...i think pmc would have taken more heat from the case than from me dropping the hammer. the problem is that this is all he said/she said kind of stuff. I could know ghostly is innocent if I investigated him...or if I were scum.

none of that makes nearly as good of a case as dj forcing the top 2 to claim...copying my claim to try and throw me under the bus...and burn me at the stake without mafia having to burn a night kill. And dj "investigating" a non suspicious town doctor who conveniently turned up dead. My top 3 for investigating night one were ghostly,clever, and pmc.
I am still suspicious of clever...

Pmc...i dont quite yet understand the yo-yo ing on ghostly. I feel like pmc demands answers but doesnt like giving them. One of the quotes that dj conveniently left out in his summary of what I had typed...was when I asked pmc if he had any info or reason to believe dj was town after pmc believed dj's claim about having picked Zthird and having joat at the top of the list. Pmc never answered my direct question. P Pmc should also explain the waffling on ghostly. Overall...believe his taking the lead seems town but would love to get him on the record for why he believed dj
at his word.
Hell...i've already started my list so let me continue.

soundman...i buy that he is town vig

Dj is scum

Nagerous I am on the fence...seems scummy to me how he has jumped on bandwagons...but one of those bandwagons was sg7...so I dont rjink that says much one way or the other.

Everywhere-no clue. I don't have anything one way or the other.

Dazza-seems town. Makes strong points then disappears.

Drunkmonkey-town double voter...i take him at his word and he proved it in my book.

Edocil-seems to have avoided any pressure to claim like pmc or respond to direct questions. he did bandwagon on ghostly...so that makes him somewhat suspicious. Below clever...but suspicious.

Ghostly is innocent. I don't know why he would lie about his role...so I would say town role-blocker.

[alt1978]

Sorry...posted before I was finished...

Spiesr-also have no clue.

My list of suspects would be

Dj
Clever
Edoc

In that order.

Fast posted by dj...just to say it again..he posted all of my quotes EXCEPT the one where I questioned pmc on how he knew dj was town. Very convenient...once again.