[CC3] - 3rd Annual Conqueror's Cup! -- TOFU wins!

[Chuuuuck]

What is the deadline for getting round of 32 games underway ?

I will update required timelines by tomorrow (maybe today).

[John Deere]

I think Adj should be allowed. They have been around long enough clans should be able to play them.

[IcePack]

what about adj attacks? are they going to be allowed in this year conquer cup?

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. I'd actually like to allow them because it is strictly a strategy based option which clans promote.

We didn't allow nukes last year or this year because of the luck nukes add. Nukes are not so much playing a strategy (I know there is some slight strategy) but it is more just crossing your fingers and preying you get certain cards or your opponent doesn't get certain cards.

Adj. attacks is new, but it is what it is, and it is a very strategic type of game play with no real addition of luck added. Because of that, I think it should be allowed to be used in clan wars, but as always, I am open to hearing other opinions on this for a few days.

I think as some rounds have started, either don't allow for CC3 or announce a certain round they begin that's far enough in advance that all participants are well aware of the change.

It wasn't in the rules at time of sign up, which is the basis for me saying to wait for CC4.

IcePack

[niMic]

FYI we've gone from 23 submissions to 38 with the help of the dispatch today.
There's still time, and now prizes

http://www.challonge.com/concup3

46!

88 submissions on this thread and I believe 2 via PM makes us at 90 total so far

IcePack

Shouldn't you stop taking in submissions considering the games have already started?

[IcePack]

The Dispatch wanted to get involved and ensure people had a chance to sign up.
I believe all submissions must be entered by tonight.

IcePack

[freakns]

what about adj attacks? are they going to be allowed in this year conquer cup?

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. I'd actually like to allow them because it is strictly a strategy based option which clans promote.

We didn't allow nukes last year or this year because of the luck nukes add. Nukes are not so much playing a strategy (I know there is some slight strategy) but it is more just crossing your fingers and preying you get certain cards or your opponent doesn't get certain cards.

Adj. attacks is new, but it is what it is, and it is a very strategic type of game play with no real addition of luck added. Because of that, I think it should be allowed to be used in clan wars, but as always, I am open to hearing other opinions on this for a few days.

im against it, at least for this year, simply because we dont know what they bring. i mean, can you imagine hive with adj attacks? also, lucky drop would kill a game. then again, some interesting new tactics might be seen, so thats a plus... i say dont allow it, at least for first if not first two rounds. let us all try it out outside of clan challenges just to be sure what are we looking at here...

[Sniper08]

what about adj attacks? are they going to be allowed in this year conquer cup?

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. I'd actually like to allow them because it is strictly a strategy based option which clans promote.

We didn't allow nukes last year or this year because of the luck nukes add. Nukes are not so much playing a strategy (I know there is some slight strategy) but it is more just crossing your fingers and preying you get certain cards or your opponent doesn't get certain cards.

Adj. attacks is new, but it is what it is, and it is a very strategic type of game play with no real addition of luck added. Because of that, I think it should be allowed to be used in clan wars, but as always, I am open to hearing other opinions on this for a few days.

im against it, at least for this year

i agree, next year they should be allowed but not this year, some clans will have a big advantage over others as they are quicker at learning this new setting.

[Leehar]

I don't think allowing it on a limited basis of 2 max per set or similar should be an issue. We don't want games coming down to Trench, but if a home team is confident of their ability to win on it as such a recent addition, it shouldn't make too much of a diff.
But heck, I like nukes for making stacking a less viable option as well so who knows if thats truly not beneficial to a home team willing to accept the risk

[MudPuppy]

I'd definitely be in favor of allowing trench warfare with perhaps a limit on the number of times it could be used per set for the first year.

[benga]

You can leave and option, if both clans want to use it let them be.

[IcePack]

You can leave and option, if both clans want to use it let them be.

Perhaps it should be left to negotiate as an option, if both want then sure. If one or both don't then it's left out.

IcePack

[Chuuuuck]

what about adj attacks? are they going to be allowed in this year conquer cup?

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. I'd actually like to allow them because it is strictly a strategy based option which clans promote.

We didn't allow nukes last year or this year because of the luck nukes add. Nukes are not so much playing a strategy (I know there is some slight strategy) but it is more just crossing your fingers and preying you get certain cards or your opponent doesn't get certain cards.

Adj. attacks is new, but it is what it is, and it is a very strategic type of game play with no real addition of luck added. Because of that, I think it should be allowed to be used in clan wars, but as always, I am open to hearing other opinions on this for a few days.

im against it, at least for this year

i agree, next year they should be allowed but not this year, some clans will have a big advantage over others as they are quicker at learning this new setting.

I am not against giving clans a "big advantage." I am only against increasing luck factors. If one clan works harder and gets a team prepared to play it, then I say more power to them. That works the same as a map coming out of Beta.

Only reason I would be entitled to say no this year is because clans didn't know when they signed up. But I am intrigued by allowing it and limiting total this year so it isn't an overwhelming factor or allowing it in the round of 16 and on.

Thoughts?

[Finsfleet]

Only reason I would be entitled to say no this year is because clans didn't know when they signed up.

Well, this is a big reason. Another important reason is the one that freakns gave before: we don`t actually know how this will affect the gameplay. Not until thousands of games are played. Until then, we can only assume.

CC3 is interesting enough without this setting, I think introducing it brings way more risks than benefits.

I am firmly against this rule.

[uckuki]

for one thing it will make the games on large maps go forever.

[IcePack]

Chuuuuck,
Like you said (and others) the biggest thing is not knowing at time of sign up. I'm not saying we (KOA) wouldn't have signed up to CC3 if trench had been included, but we sure would have been more prepared for it.
Especially considering games are already under way for CC3 under original rules proposed, we aren't still in sign up stages here.

IcePack

[jj3044]

You can leave and option, if both clans want to use it let them be.

Perhaps it should be left to negotiate as an option, if both want then sure. If one or both don't then it's left out.

IcePack

I think that this should be the proper rule also...

[MichelSableheart]

Agreed, it can be negotiated in, but completely allowing it would effectively mean changing the rules after the tournament has already started.

[Chariot of Fire]

for one thing it will make the games on large maps go forever.

I think this is an important consideration that isn't being given much thought. Any tournament should try and avoid settings that could result in a lengthy stalemate and thus cause delay to the overall progress. If Trench is introduced then it would be feasible to impose a round limit so we don't have interminable games.

And Trench has only been around for what, a couple of weeks? And already there is talk of introducing it whilst we still can't have nukes (which have been a feature now for ages, require a lot of tactical planning and also help expedite the end of a game).

Nukes before Trench!

[Chuuuuck]

It is settled then. Trench Warfare is not allowed in the cup.

However, like all other rules, if it is negotiated between the two clans and they both agree, then it is fine.

And Simon, I explained when I brought this up why I would be in favor of Trench over Nukes. Nukes increase the luck factor whereas trench is still a very strategic option. However, I hadn't thought about the length of games. That could be bad for expediting wars.

[freakns]

However, I hadn't thought about the length of games.

thats only because you dont read what i write! and while i can agree everything i write is 99% complete nonsense, from time to time i actually get something right! you, as organizer, just need to figure out what is actually useful instead of waiting for Si to post before you include brain in writing process

[ljex]

what about adj attacks? are they going to be allowed in this year conquer cup?

I'd like to hear others opinions on this. I'd actually like to allow them because it is strictly a strategy based option which clans promote.

We didn't allow nukes last year or this year because of the luck nukes add. Nukes are not so much playing a strategy (I know there is some slight strategy) but it is more just crossing your fingers and preying you get certain cards or your opponent doesn't get certain cards.

Adj. attacks is new, but it is what it is, and it is a very strategic type of game play with no real addition of luck added. Because of that, I think it should be allowed to be used in clan wars, but as always, I am open to hearing other opinions on this for a few days.

Talk about stalling the entire tournament when a trench game on fuedal war, epic, hive, etc hasnt ended.

Also you say nuclear spoils is lucky...but that is simply untrue. You can trap you opponent into taking regions where you control the spoils, or even avoid regions that you have the spoils of. Similarly there can be a should i take a card or not strategy. Anyway it is no more lucky that flat rate where getting a 3 card mixed can change a game and yet...we still allow that in clan wars. I don't think it is fair of you to say that a setting is all luck when you don't even have more than a bronze medal for the setting meaning you haven't played it that much.

[pmchugh]

ljex makes a valid point, nukes are less luck based than flat rate. If people are allowed to pick flat rate doodle, then I don't see why nukes should not be allowed. I don't particularly like nukes but I see no reason to exclude them.

After that I welcome the day trench is accepted. So many teams are fearful of things they don't understand, and are so unwilling to adapt. The only valid concern that I see is that the games will take longer, I would accept round limits or restricted number of games to reduce this effect.

[Leehar]

CoF makes a valid point, nukes are less luck based than flat rate. If people are allowed to pick flat rate doodle, then I don't see why nukes should not be allowed. I don't particularly like nukes but I see no reason to exclude them.

After that I welcome the day trench is accepted. So many teams are fearful of things they don't understand, and are so unwilling to adapt. The only valid concern that I see is that the games will take longer, I would accept round limits or restricted number of games to reduce this effect.

Much as I'm sure we all admire CoF, it was ljex that expressed that enlightened sentiment

I do agree with everyone that it's high time Nukes for included though!

[MudPuppy]

As someone has already said, [nuclear spoils] is gimmicky. There's little place for it in clan contests or in the hearts of players who rely on strategy above good fortune.

lol... just stumbled upon that quote from Si when looking in the CLA forum for opinions of nukes. He's definitely allowed to have a change of heart after having a chance to play it for over two years... I just got a chuckle out of it.

My impression is that the main contention with nukes today is not so much with the validity of the setting itself but with the perceived loophole of timing out to avoid taking a card. If that "problem" were addressed, I believe nukes would be much more widely accepted in the clan world.

[Leehar]

As someone has already said, [nuclear spoils] is gimmicky. There's little place for it in clan contests or in the hearts of players who rely on strategy above good fortune.

lol... just stumbled upon that quote from Si when looking in the CLA forum for opinions of nukes. He's definitely allowed to have a change of heart after having a chance to play it for over two years... I just got a chuckle out of it.

My impression is that the main contention with nukes today is not so much with the validity of the setting itself but with the perceived loophole of timing out to avoid taking a card. If that "problem" were solved, I believe nukes would be much more widely accepted in the clan world.

Why not just treat it similarly to the Cl4 rules for Esc. spoil timeouts?

Timing out in Escalating games will not be tolerated by any players or clans that abuse this.
First offense of a team: the game will be remade.
Second offense of a team (in the same game): the game will not be considered as a win for the offending clan for league purposes. If they do win, then the game will be declared a draw. In these circumstances, games may still count towards other statistics, such as ranking systems.
If a clan has been penalized (as above) for two offenses in one game, then commits a single further offense in any game in the same round the same penalty will apply: the game will not be considered as a win for the offending clan for league purposes. If they do win, then the game will be declared a draw. In these circumstances, games may still count towards other statistics, such as ranking systems.
If a clan have been penalized twice during the season then any single further offense in any game during the entire season will result in the same penalty will apply: the game will not be considered as a win for the offending clan for league purposes. If they do win, then the game will be declared a draw. In these circumstances, games may still count towards other statistics, such as ranking systems.
Timing-out, missing turns or dead beating in No Spoils or Flat Rate games will not be investigated, or result in any penalties.