ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[Phatscotty]

sure universal healthcare sounds like a wonderful idea! until you think about it...

[Symmetry]

sure universal healthcare sounds like a wonderful idea! until you think about it...

Or until you've seen it in practice working efficiently, covering everyone, at less cost to the tax payer, in every other industrialised nation, and with better results.

Scotty- be honest, if I presented to you a system that covered every citizen, cost less in terms of tax payer money by half, was proven to be popular wherever implemented, didn't discourage medical advances, saved lives and increased life expectancy, would you really object?

[Night Strike]

sure universal healthcare sounds like a wonderful idea! until you think about it...

Or until you've seen it in practice working efficiently, covering everyone, at less cost to the tax payer, in every other industrialised nation, and with better results.

Scotty- be honest, if I presented to you a system that covered every citizen, cost less in terms of tax payer money by half, was proven to be popular wherever implemented, didn't discourage medical advances, saved lives and increased life expectancy, would you really object?

Has it ever "worked" (although your definition of worked is questionable considering there are always anecdotal stories against it) in a country with 300+ million people (including 11 million illegals) that already leads the world in medical research and innovation? Will that research and innovation continue when the government runs everything? How will prices go down in the US when our country can't feed off the hard work of the other countries (like the current socialized healthcare countries do)?

[Phatscotty]

sure universal healthcare sounds like a wonderful idea! until you think about it...

Or until you've seen it in practice working efficiently, covering everyone, at less cost to the tax payer, in every other industrialised nation, and with better results.

Scotty- be honest, if I presented to you a system that covered every citizen, cost less in terms of tax payer money by half, was proven to be popular wherever implemented, didn't discourage medical advances, saved lives and increased life expectancy, would you really object?

Would you mind including some of the downfalls? You make it sound like the perfect system with rockin tits.

We are a different people than you are. You don't understand anything about America, for the millionth time.

[Symmetry]

sure universal healthcare sounds like a wonderful idea! until you think about it...

Or until you've seen it in practice working efficiently, covering everyone, at less cost to the tax payer, in every other industrialised nation, and with better results.

Scotty- be honest, if I presented to you a system that covered every citizen, cost less in terms of tax payer money by half, was proven to be popular wherever implemented, didn't discourage medical advances, saved lives and increased life expectancy, would you really object?

Has it ever "worked" (although your definition of worked is questionable considering there are always anecdotal stories against it) in a country with 300+ million people (including 11 million illegals) that already leads the world in medical research and innovation? Will that research and innovation continue when the government runs everything? How will prices go down in the US when our country can't feed off the hard work of the other countries (like the current socialized healthcare countries do)?

Hmm, you ask a lot of questions. I feel that you decided the answer before you asked the questions, but I'll try to answer them fairly, rather than in the spirit they were asked.

1) "Has it ever worked?"- Universal healthcare is the standard in every developed nation, bar the US, which faces a massive healthcare problem.

2) "Has it ever worked in [the US]"? I'm assuming you were being sarcastic, or frivolous with this question. I'll answer honestly though- it's never been tried in the US. Saying that it will never work seems pretty dumb if your basis is that the US has a unique set of problems given that nations as diverse as Israel and Canada do alright.

3) Innovation. This kind of baffles me. From my experience conversing with you I know you have a background in Chemistry. Do you really feel that government investment in sciences stifles innovation. This is perhaps the point I find most difficult to reconcile in terms of your professed experiences and your politics. You know that countries with universal healthcare produce excellent scientific advancements.

If you ignore any of my questions, please don't ignore this one-

NightStrike, have you ever lived in a country with Universal Healthcare?

[Symmetry]

You don't understand anything about America, for the millionth time.

You're so cute when you can't use your words. I'll wait for you to come out of your "Sym isn't even American" corner, and calm down. Then let's have a chat.

[Night Strike]

sure universal healthcare sounds like a wonderful idea! until you think about it...

Or until you've seen it in practice working efficiently, covering everyone, at less cost to the tax payer, in every other industrialised nation, and with better results.

Scotty- be honest, if I presented to you a system that covered every citizen, cost less in terms of tax payer money by half, was proven to be popular wherever implemented, didn't discourage medical advances, saved lives and increased life expectancy, would you really object?

Has it ever "worked" (although your definition of worked is questionable considering there are always anecdotal stories against it) in a country with 300+ million people (including 11 million illegals) that already leads the world in medical research and innovation? Will that research and innovation continue when the government runs everything? How will prices go down in the US when our country can't feed off the hard work of the other countries (like the current socialized healthcare countries do)?

Hmm, you ask a lot of questions. I feel that you decided the answer before you asked the questions, but I'll try to answer them fairly, rather than in the spirit they were asked.

1) "Has it ever worked?"- Universal healthcare is the standard in every developed nation, bar the US, which faces a massive healthcare problem.

2) "Has it ever worked in [the US]"? I'm assuming you were being sarcastic, or frivolous with this question. I'll answer honestly though- it's never been tried in the US. Saying that it will never work seems pretty dumb if your basis is that the US has a unique set of problems given that nations as diverse as Israel and Canada do alright.

3) Innovation. This kind of baffles me. From my experience conversing with you I know you have a background in Chemistry. Do you really feel that government investment in sciences stifles innovation. This is perhaps the point I find most difficult to reconcile in terms of your professed experiences and your politics. You know that countries with universal healthcare produce excellent scientific advancements.

If you ignore any of my questions, please don't ignore this one-

NightStrike, have you ever lived in a country with Universal Healthcare?

Nope, and I wouldn't want to. If I have a medical issue, I like being able to see a doctor promptly and not have the government choose whether or not they will cover a procedure. And I like the freedom of making my own health care choices instead of handing those choices over to the government.

And where's the massive health care problem in the US? There's a massive problem with the government interfering with the health care market, yet we still have the best health care in the world. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it bad. And there are plenty of ways to reduce the cost of health care, and many of them involve cutting the involvement of the government, not expanding it.

[Phatscotty]

You don't understand anything about America, for the millionth time.

You're so cute when you can't use your words. I'll wait for you to come out of your "Sym isn't even American" corner, and calm down. Then let's have a chat.

Well, you aren't American. That is the main reason why you are so arrogantly oblivious when you constantly dismiss our values and principles. It's not so much that you don't understand, it's that you are unable to.

You have to know that it's a given when you are fomenting at the mouth about America, you are going to be coming from a foreigners point of view, and do not possess key concepts of Americanism.

Here is one of those links you were asking for. Let me know what you think. I think you will learn more here in 7 minutes than you have over your entire life.

[Symmetry]

NightStrike, have you ever lived in a country with Universal Healthcare?

Nope, and I wouldn't want to. If I have a medical issue, I like being able to see a doctor promptly and not have the government choose whether or not they will cover a procedure. And I like the freedom of making my own health care choices instead of handing those choices over to the government.

And where's the massive health care problem in the US? There's a massive problem with the government interfering with the health care market, yet we still have the best health care in the world. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it bad. And there are plenty of ways to reduce the cost of health care, and many of them involve cutting the involvement of the government, not expanding it.

You know NS, a cheaper man than I would pull the same cheap stunt that you pull on me, and say that you know nothing about universal healthcare. Ya know, kind of like you say I don't know anything about America 'cos I don't live there, although I've lived there in the past. That would be a cheaper man. One that might point out your blatant hypocrisy in criticizing a system you've never experienced entirely based on what you've been told.

And against the actual experiences of people who live within those systems, and have indeed experienced the American system too.

I would be a small man if I were to point out that all your criticism of socialist medicine was based on stuff you were told, rather than experienced. Indeed, I'd be a bit of a prick if I burst your bubble and explained that plenty of people have taken a long hard look at the American healthcare system and said, no fucking thanks.

Thankfully, I'm not that petty.

[Night Strike]

So why do you care what kind of health care system we have in the US? You can keep your socialized healthcare, and we can keep our freedom. And we can both be happy.


Unless you're not actually happy with your system and want to make sure we join you in a poor system.

[Phatscotty]

So why do you care what kind of health care system we have in the US? You can keep your socialized healthcare, and we can keep our freedom. And we can both be happy.


Unless you're not actually happy with your system and want to make sure we join you in a poor system.

equality! Everyone can be equally poor and nobody can have anything extra! There is no such thing as working hard to "get ahead" not for your children and certainly not for your greedy self!

[Symmetry]

So why do you care what kind of health care system we have in the US? You can keep your socialized healthcare, and we can keep our freedom. And we can both be happy.


Unless you're not actually happy with your system and want to make sure we join you in a poor system.

Why are you so hot and bothered about a non-American system being superior to an American system? You seem genuinely upset if I suggest that one of the several healthcare systems I've lived under is better than the US system.

I don't get it, you pay more, get less, cover fewer people, have more government spending, and you claim that you're more free. From what?

Free from regular scans for breast cancer?

[Night Strike]

So why do you care what kind of health care system we have in the US? You can keep your socialized healthcare, and we can keep our freedom. And we can both be happy.


Unless you're not actually happy with your system and want to make sure we join you in a poor system.

Why are you so hot and bothered about a non-American system being superior to an American system? You seem genuinely upset if I suggest that one of the several healthcare systems I've lived under is better than the US system.

I don't get it, you pay more, get less, cover fewer people, have more government spending, and you claim that you're more free. From what?

Free from regular scans for breast cancer?

I'm hot and bothered about trying to replace our freedoms with government control. When government controls health care, they can make any other decision about your life that they choose to make. All while providing less and less care, especially the expensive treatments that our country is great at providing. You can't find expensive treatment in countries where the government makes all the decisions.

[Phatscotty]

not to mention...politicizing health care? Greaaaaatttttttttt

just what we needed

[Symmetry]

So why do you care what kind of health care system we have in the US? You can keep your socialized healthcare, and we can keep our freedom. And we can both be happy.


Unless you're not actually happy with your system and want to make sure we join you in a poor system.

Why are you so hot and bothered about a non-American system being superior to an American system? You seem genuinely upset if I suggest that one of the several healthcare systems I've lived under is better than the US system.

I don't get it, you pay more, get less, cover fewer people, have more government spending, and you claim that you're more free. From what?

Free from regular scans for breast cancer?

I'm hot and bothered about trying to replace our freedoms with government control. When government controls health care, they can make any other decision about your life that they choose to make. All while providing less and less care, especially the expensive treatments that our country is great at providing. You can't find expensive treatment in countries where the government makes all the decisions.

NS, do you solely speak now in the language of bumper stickers and soundbites? I know that you can't believe the stuff you say. I'm not sure I've ever seen another poster so without a personality beyond a partisan political message.

[Night Strike]

NS, do you solely speak now in the language of bumper stickers and soundbites? I know that you can't believe the stuff you say. I'm not sure I've ever seen another poster so without a personality beyond a partisan political message.

What's wrong with believing in right and wrong? And the truth is more than just soundbites. If you want to hear soundbites that are completely void of truth, you should listen to an Obama speech. Freedom isn't partisan.

[Symmetry]

NS, do you solely speak now in the language of bumper stickers and soundbites? I know that you can't believe the stuff you say. I'm not sure I've ever seen another poster so without a personality beyond a partisan political message.

What's wrong with believing in right and wrong? And the truth is more than just soundbites. If you want to hear soundbites that are completely void of truth, you should listen to an Obama speech. Freedom isn't partisan.

All but your third sentence were lovely bumper stickers. The third was a weird attack on Obama reflected off of the criticism I leveled at you, or- if you like- a weird "I know your are, but what am I then", kind of thing.

Is there a NighstStrike still in there that goes beyond stating positions that can easily fit on the rear end of a car?

[Phatscotty]

[Night Strike]

NS, do you solely speak now in the language of bumper stickers and soundbites? I know that you can't believe the stuff you say. I'm not sure I've ever seen another poster so without a personality beyond a partisan political message.

What's wrong with believing in right and wrong? And the truth is more than just soundbites. If you want to hear soundbites that are completely void of truth, you should listen to an Obama speech. Freedom isn't partisan.

All but your third sentence were lovely bumper stickers. The third was a weird attack on Obama reflected off of the criticism I leveled at you, or- if you like- a weird "I know your are, but what am I then", kind of thing.

Is there a NighstStrike still in there that goes beyond stating positions that can easily fit on the rear end of a car?

Well, freedom doesn't really have to expand into long diatribes and dissertations. It relies on a simple question: Does this governmental action result in more freedom or less freedom? If you have to provide a long justification or rationalization, then the answer is mostly likely less freedom.

[Symmetry]

Good to see some people still standing up for NightStrike's arguments in the forms they were intended.

[Phatscotty]

Symm, you chimin in from my challenge at the top of the previous page, or you duckin n weavin? Getting the thread to the next page doesn't make the scary ideas go away

[Symmetry]

Symm, you chimin in from my challenge at the top of the previous page, or you duckin n weavin? Getting the thread to the next page doesn't make the scary ideas go away

Here is one of those links you were asking for. Let me know what you think. I think you will learn more here in 7 minutes than you have over your entire life.

Look, sorry dude, I've done this script with your links before.

1) Scotty: Hey this is relevant! Watch it!, I won't say how, or what it's relevant to!
2) Me: Meh
3) Scottty: I can't believe you didn't watch my 10-30 minutes video You're dodging.

Dude, just tell me your argument, and post the vids as support.

Don't be a dickhead and think that if I watch everything you like I'll agree with you. Is that fair?

[Phatscotty]

Symm, you chimin in from my challenge at the top of the previous page, or you duckin n weavin? Getting the thread to the next page doesn't make the scary ideas go away

Here is one of those links you were asking for. Let me know what you think. I think you will learn more here in 7 minutes than you have over your entire life.

Look, sorry dude, I've done this script with your links before.

1) Scotty: Hey this is relevant! Watch it!, I won't say how, or what it's relevant to!
2) Me: Meh
3) Scottty: I can't believe you didn't watch my 10-30 minutes video You're dodging.

Dude, just tell me your argument, and post the vids as support.

Don't be a dickhead and think that if I watch everything you like I'll agree with you. Is that fair?

Ya know, I knew if I gave you a link, you would ignore it. You asked me for it!

The video is under 10 minutes, and certainly not 30 minutes.

I only dug it up for you because you said this...

Scotty, I think I might have gotten to the route of your misunderstandings. Did you know that all of the people you've been arguing against all this time haven't simply been underlining random parts of their posts?

They've been providing links to evidence, support, facts, or opinions that backed up their arguments.

U R adorable when you squirm

[Symmetry]

Ya know, I knew if I gave you a link, you would ignore it. You asked me for it!

Don't ever ask me for a link again

What did i do to get that response?

[Phatscotty]

Ya know, I knew if I gave you a link, you would ignore it. You asked me for it!

Don't ever ask me for a link again

What did i do to get that response?

You ducked my challenge immediately after I completed your challenge

wtf dude.